2013 Millersburg Meet results with HD video!
 

Hey everyone,

As many of you know a few of us met up in Millersburg, OH on Sunday like we had 6 times before:

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Here's who came out:


bthr22 (Ryan) - 2000 F250, 2WD V10, 3.73 gears
2000SilverBullet (Matt) - 2011 F350, 4WD 6.2L V8, 4.30 gears
Senix (Scott) - 2008 F250, 4WD 6.4L PSD, 3.73 gears
i eat hybrids (Matt) - 2006 F350, 4WD 6.0L PSD, 3.73 gears
Tom - 2013 F150, 4WD 3.5L EB, 3.73 gears


Present but declined to tow:
Maxium4x4 (John) - 2003 F250, 4WD 6.0L PSD
Monster-4 (Mike) - 2000 F250, 4WD V10, 3.73 gears

The day started out at Wal-Mart where we met up:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps9f3fb40b.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...psaf092270.jpg

We went back to Mike's house and got to check out the trailer he lined up for today's activities. It was a deckover dump trailer loaded up with gravel:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...psdf886b4a.jpg

And it wasn't light, this is the weight on the trailer axle:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...psbe2155ee.jpg

Assuming 10% tongue weight the trailer came in just over 15,100 lbs. Good thing I brought my trusty F150! :eek:

:D


First up was Matt's 6.2L truck:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps60decee6.jpg


We were all impressed how well Matt's truck did considering it was handicapped by larger tires. It was able to achieve 25 MPH at the first bend which is no small task pulling nearly twice the truck's weight.

Next up was Scott's 6.4L diesel truck:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps0239b635.jpg

(Note: we tried to get the neighbor to hitch up the Suburban in the background, but sadly he declined. :D)

On the hill with Matt's F350 as a chase vehicle:
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps5cb471d2.jpg

2008 F250 PSD hill pull - YouTube

Scott's truck amply demonstrated why modern turbodiesels are awesome to tow with. His abundance of torque made for a much faster acceleration up the steepest part of the hill, and the truck had no issues performing the task. I think his temps were a bit hotter than I remember my 6.4L truck getting under similar circumstances, but Scott has since dragged his 15,000 lb camper back home without issues, so all is well.

At this point it was time to stress out my new F150. We gave my truck no favors for this pull, we waited for the hottest part of the day(85° IIRC), had 4 of us in the cab, and made the pull with the A/C blasting:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...psf459dda0.jpg


http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...psc61460cb.jpg


I was very impressed with how my little 3.5L V6 handled the pull. It got a bit warm at 239° coolant temp, but at no point did the gauge indicate an overheat or reduce power; note that it was pushing the full 16 PSI of boost all the way to the very end. We then rolled over to the scale to get weighed. Here is what the whole rig weighed with all of us in the cab:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps39f4134c.jpg

Yup, that's right...21,480 lbs. Axle weights were as follows:

Steer: 3,240
Drive: 4,540
Trailer: 13,740

We swapped drivers around a few times before heading back to the house, and everyone seemed pleased with the way my truck handled that much weight. I did have a new product installed on the truck called StableLoad, and it made a noticeable improvement on the way the truck handled while towing such a heavy trailer. Tomorrow morning I'll be posting up a review thread and I'll post a link for those who are interested.

Next up was Matt's 2006 diesel truck. Note that he was running tuned and he couldn't keep the throttle pinned without risking dangerously high EGTs. In my humble opinion it was a bad idea to run tuned, but with a watchful eye on his EGTs he didn't blow it up!

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps48cde4d1.jpg

2006 F350 PSD hill pull - YouTube

The truck performed strongly, and as you can see from the times when he was at full throttle a tuned 6.0 is a force to be reckoned with! I think it was pulling harder than a stock 6.7L truck, but of course it couldn't be sustained due to the ~1,450° EGTs that occurred within seconds of full throttle.

Last up was Ryan's 2000 F250:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...psd0ffc5d2.jpg

It's important to note that his front springs were replaced recently, so the rear end sag wasn't as bad as it looks. Being a 2WD truck with beefier front springs it rode nose high without a trailer.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps47fb1dca.jpg

2000 F250 V10 hill pull - YouTube

Unfortunately his 3.73 gears really hindered his truck for the first portion of the hill; there just wasn't enough torque multiplication available to break 5 MPH. The truck did the job just fine, and I suspect this would have been very different if he had the optional 4.30s that some trucks were equipped with.

On another note, this was Ryan's first time towing anything of significance, and this was one hell of an initiation! He did a fantastic job despite the magnitude of what we were pulling in relation to the truck's rated capacity(10,000 lbs). Despite being 13 years old and running on 3 quarts of oil(:eek:) it handled the steepest hill you can ever expect to see without issue. We weren't able to monitor temps because I forgot the gauge in my truck, but his factory gauges never left the normal range.

Afterward we got together for a photo op with the FTE banner!

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps61acef09.jpg

Of course not everything goes according to plan. At the end of the day we had to haul the gravel back to the yard and drop off the trailer. I called dibs on the trailer as my truck is a glutton for punishment:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps982aecef.jpg

Coming down Mike's very steep road, we had to make a sharp, ~120° left turn at the base of the hill. As I was making the turn the heavy trailer pushed my rear end sideways...I came closer than I ever had to jackknifing into the ditch. I've towed trailers for nearly 300,000 miles and have never had such a close call.

And if that weren't enough, 1/2 mile later I got a "Trailer Wiring Fault" message on the message center and I lost all trailer brakes. Something went awry with the rental trailer and we weren't able to get the brakes working. Scott(Senix) stepped up and volunteered to tow it because he had the heaviest truck there; he got it there with no issues but I'm sure it was a stressful tow!

I'd like to thank Mike for hosting the event and everyone who came for making this such a great time. Like always I had a blast and it was well worth the trip!

Looks awesome I really wish I could go to one of them one of these days I will try and do it. I love matts 06 6.0L looks awesome. Tom I thought you had an EX did you decide to trade that for the Eco boost. Either way love the new F150.
Trav

Nice job Tom. I also have to Thank Mike for putting this all together and even feeding us...:-X22 You know I always decline pulling up that hill because 4 guys stuffed in a single cab is way too friendly.....}>

I was skeptical, curious, then down right amazed how the EcoBoost performed. After taking the F-150 with trailer in tow (Senix will back me) for a real world drive, it was utterly amazing and quite capable to handle any situation. My hats off to a V-6 that stepped up to the challenge and knocked one out of the ball park.

Dumb question, but were the rest of you towing in 4WD? Just wondering what the difference was on the 2000 V10 2WD (which did fine after the initial climb).

That was my first time towing ANYTHING, so I was definitely nervous! But I had a blast, and I've been itching to hook something up since I've been back.

No worries. That is quite a bit of weight. I sweat with a third of that.. Truck does fine, I get nervous. :) How did it handle? Any sway issues or anything around the corners etc?

It was definitely cool seeing all the different rigs towing. Have to say the ecoboost suprised the heck out of me.

Definitely cool to see you all getting together for events like that.

:-drink

IIRC, isn't the GCWR on a Max Tow F150 something like 17,000lbs?

At 21,480 lbs you were almost 4,500lbs overweight, right?

That's crazy, no wonder the truck wanted to put you in a ditch.....it was probably mad at ya. ;)

That GCWR is actually right around what I am with my F350 dumptruck. I pull a drop deck trailer with a Gehl skid steer.
Trailer weight is ~3,300lbs
Skid steer weight with bucket, forks, and a full tank is ~9,000lbs
Truck weighs ~8,500lbs.

Total GCWR is just over 21,000lbs with me in it and nothing in the dump bed, and I'm just under my max. I couldn't imagine exceeding it by that much, never mind doing a hill climb with it. :eek:

(Then again, my dump is a '94 that had all of ~215hp/~425tq when new.:D)

Awesome! Great job guys :-drink

That ecoboost is one hell of a motor.... my dad has a 2011 F-150 with the eco and it pulls like an animal.

It was a great time as always thanks to our host. I was very impressed with the eco-boost as well. John and I had a lengthy discussion about the abilites. I drove it several miles as well up a long grade and it was able to hold the speed limit.

Some downshifting which you would expect but the transmission was well integrated and was seamless in delivering the power.

I too started in 4x4 for my run as I did not want to spin my tires. What I did not do was a boosted launch for my 6.4. So there was a brief delay while my turbo's spun up.

On a program note I came out for a four day weekend with my 5er. I crossed the scales in Hagerstown, MD at 23,050 for the trip. I seem to run hotter than some of the others but always have. I have 82K on the ODO and 2150 hrs (approx).

I love the videos... keep them coming!

Recommendation: It would be nice to see you place orange cones to create "waypoints" for the course. For example, you could place a cone at the bottom and top of each hill to define segments for the course. The speed (and temps) could then be compared for each truck to determine the actual acceleration for that segment of the course.

I am impressed with Ford's new engines. The 6.2L and 3.5L Ecoboost are solid platforms for towing. Can anyone say "6.2L Ecoboost?"

Thanks Andrew!

That makes sense, but I would be concerned that an irritated homeowner would call the cops. Matt's F350(i eat hybrids) was straight piped and loud enough to cause hearing damage, and there were more than a few pissed off people that lived along that road. Placing cones would make it look too much like an illicit race track(which it was) and could get us in trouble.

Honestly, I'd rather see a 5.0L EB engine. The EB treatment for the 3.5L engine makes 22% more horsepower and 60% more torque than the N/A model they put in the Edge. Using those same numbers, a 5.0L EB should be capable of 445 HP and 608 ft-lbs of torque. Of course we couldn't count on identical gains, but such an engine would most likely make the 6.7L PSD seem unattractive to all but the heaviest duty commercial haulers.

Price determines the sale, I doubt if any long haulers would switch from diesel but the weekend warrior sure would. If Ford wanted sales it would be a good move to turbo up a gas V-8 for the trucks.

Edit: On second thought, Ford would destroy the competition with such a package.

The handling felt rock solid. No sway, or bump steer. No "wagging the dog" from the trailer either. I was mostly worried about braking on the downhills. It took a few minutes to get used to braking technique with a brake controller vs. without. But I had two veteran pullers with me to talk me through it and answer any questions!

On the uphill I was mostly nervous that I wouldn't get traction in 2wd. But there were no problems there. It was just slow going up the first part of the hill. But I feel good about how the truck did overall, considering the age of the engine/trans., 3.73 gearing, and being only 2wd.

Downhill was no joke Ryan. All of us are fortunate that the brakes didn't fail until afterward, as there is absolutely no possible way the truck could have stopped that trailer without trailer brakes. It would have been an accident regardless of who was behind the wheel or what kind of truck was pulling it; working trailer brakes aren't optional with that kind of weight.

After the brake failure I'm thinking we need to change the route and not descend that hill again with a rental trailer...that's 2 out of the 3 times we've had brake failure with those rental trailers. We were a stroke of luck away from being on the evening news.

Agree with you about traction, we've had situations before where 2WD trucks have gotten stuck with even less trailer weight. Matt's diesel truck couldn't hook up in 2WD either; had you had the same oversize tires we wouldn't have gone anywhere. Your bone stock truck handled that aspect better than the two lifted trucks we've run in the past. :-drink

Ryan does your 2000 have any mods at all engine wise? our 02 F250 V10 with a few mods engine wise has pulled similar weight in 2wd up and down similar hills and didn't scream as much as your 2000 did even with an aftermarket exhaust. Actually just recently did we haul similar weight through similar sized hills and never got above 3k rpm the whole trip (20-30 miles) from dead stop to 45 MPH. Just curious being a fellow V10 owner. I know our last 02 F250 V10 (one before this one) did the same as your 2000 did screaming hauling even less weight and it was bone stock.

(I am slowly trying to watch all the videos and the first one I watched was Ryans)
Trav

Again, great time as usual. Big thanks to Crazy001 and Monster-4 for the effort they put forth!

FWIW - I drove Tom's EB empty, it's a strange feeling to have all that power down low with that motor, w/ 3.73's no less. Very impressive!

Now if we could only figure out the thought process behind the A/C blower fluctuation. :-X04

Remember Trav, this was an effort to see how these trucks performed in a difficult situation. When you're accelerating to 60 MPH do you ever get over 3,000 RPMs? Do you think Motor Trend did when they put it on the drag strip? Of course they did!

Good question, I can only assume that it had something to do with the engine temp; it hasn't done it again. :-huh

In other news, here's another vid to watch, matt had the left-rear wheel a good 6" in the air!

Actually Tom we have never personally gotten our truck over 3500 RPM mashing on the gas from a dead stop nor pulling super heavy loads only time we got over 3500 RPM was in park or neutral (which my dad puts in all the time trying to go to reverse) and hits the gas. I don't get what you mean by in a difficult situation I understand that most if not all those trucks were probably overloaded and going up the hill didn't help but we have gone up a hill at dead stop. Just saying I really wish I could show y'all how our 02 performs under pressure like this but Ohio is a long ways away and building our house takes most of our time. On a side note nice video of Matts truck flexing. I really love how your truck is set up Matt.
Trav

How you've never had your truck over 3500 rpm is beyond me.... give me the keys, I'll get it over 3500 for ya }>

... and just how heavy is "super heavy" ? did you ever get any of these super heavy loads scaled?

Well let me see we hauled 5 mobile homes about the same size but 1 which was a 60 footer. According to the mobile home movers up here they all agree these older mobile homes were around 8 ton maybe a bit more. Since we have pulled the 60' 20-30 miles up hills and all (unfortunetly got no video but did get a pic I was busy being a pace car) the other 4 close to 5-10 miles. The 60' was at 45 MPH till turn in (and we did do 3-4 stops on the way all parked on a hill because of the area we were in). Have shown a pic of all the ones but one that we have towed and the 02 shows damage from 3 of them. Plus one was a 10x40 that we backed up with flat tires up a hill in 4x4 and it never got that high. Dennis I am not saying it is impossible to get over 3500 RPM in our 02 but we have never done it and my dad is heavy on the gas in that truck. For some reason every time we use the truck by the time it gets to 3200 RPM it shifts. I don't want to start a pulling fight or anything I was just trying to get some info on Ryan's truck. Sorry for getting off topic Tom.
Trav

No worries Trav. I've had 16,000 lbs behind my Excursion a couple of months ago and it performed very similar to how Ryan's truck did. I have a THREAD in the Excursion forum that has the weight ticket.

It's all good Trav, no worries. I was just confused as to how you are pulling these heavy loads and not letting that V10 sing.

I don't have any modifications to the engine. The owner before me put a Thrush exhaust on. Did you have the overdrive turned off? I did, and as you can see, it didn't shift until we got to the top. I think if it had decided to shift for some reason, we would have been in trouble. I would be interested in maybe doing a couple mods to get a little better performance. I wouldn't want to dump a ton of money in, but a little better performance would be nice.

Tom, I definitely understand when you say that the downhills are a dangerous thing. Especially after hearing about the brakes. I feel very fortunate that they waited until the end of the day to fail. I'm glad no one was hurt, and no damage to any vehicles was done.

Ryan, way to go man! That was a hell of a load you tugged around :-X22

That V10 sounded sweet. I agree with what you said about the OD being off... it definitely helps.

I have really enjoyed reading these posts when you've had the meets in the past. I enjoyed reading this one as well. I appreciate the time you put in to the write up and the post for all of us to read.

well Dennis Our 02 is modified big time. The Po put more money into it he said then he put into his own painting shop which is right on the main drag and costs a fortune to get. I probably don't even know everything on this truck. We also get better fuel mileage then most but I know I will get smashed on about that one everytime I post about that I do. Tom great thread reading it right now. Makes me wish we had an Ex instead of a whimppy Expedition (good thing my mom isn't around she loves that little truck)
Trav

Yes we always turn OD off when towing it helps a ton. I was so surprised when we did it for the first time towing a light load. Sounds about right these V10s for some reason don't shift till the last second at least our last 02 did this current one shifts right on the mark everytime. I am also glad no one nor nothing was hurt even though I wasn't hurt there was a lot of nice truck and cool people who have helped us before. I would definatly do a few small mods unless it is a Daily driver if it is and not towing much leave it stock.
Trav

In this particular situation it was completely meaningless; under no circumstances will the transmission attempt to shift into O/D at WOT unless something is broken. Overdrive is nothing more than the top gear of the transmission, and like all the other gears it will only shift there if the conditions are right.

The 16K load I referenced in the above post was pulled by my Excursion just fine with O/D enabled the whole way. Up and down the mountains of Vermont the conditions were never right for it to shift to 4th, but the interstates and back roads of NY it lugged along in O/D just fine. :-X22

I disagree; it's great only if you have a bottomless fuel budget or the conditions require it.

hey it's all good, no sweat :-X22 Yes sir, an Excursion would be very cool, but anyways..... sorry fellas, back to the thread :-X06

I agree, in this situation, it probably didn't do a whole lot... but under normal conditions it sure helps keep the trans from hunting around and constantly shifting.

Well Tom thanks for all that info I didn't know that thanks a bunch I learned something from this thread. And yes I agree with Dennis we kinda need to get back on topic my bad for getting us off if anyone still wants to talk further you can PM me if you would like.
Trav

Thanks Dennis! In spite of the nerves, I still had a ton of fun! I learned quite a lot there, and it was really nice to be able to meet some of the people I've been talking to on the forum.

Trav, I've heard that headers will really wake the V10 up, and are relatively inexpensive. Not sure what that would do to the fuel mileage. It is my daily driver if I'm not on my bike, so I don't really want to hurt the mpgs any. The V10s already get too few. Since I don't really tow (although, I wouldn't mind towing more) its probably not practical to change from 3.73s. If I was doing a bunch of towing, especially heavier loads, I'd probably look into getting a newer truck, maybe a 3v V10 or a 4wd at the very least.

I'm thinking my best bet would be to focus more on the suspension than the engine. Not that the suspension is in bad shape now, I just don't care for how much it sags with weight in the bed. Even the 600 or so pounds of mulch I hauled yesterday put a fairly decent sag on the rear end. Maybe a set of airbags or the hardware Tom had on his springs would be the next step? Just some thoughts after making the run and seeing how the truck performs under high weight and stress.

yep some airbags or some type of helper or add-a-leaf spring will help with the sag :-X22

I told Ryan not to use the OD as I didn't want his tranny to take the chance and hunt for gears when left for the run. I was fearing an increase in tranny temps as it was. Turned out we never went that fast for it to be a consideration.

Ryan jump on down to the 6.8L V10 part of the forum you will find a few mods you may like and answer a few questions at the same time. There are good people down there just like over here. I agree with Dennis some airbags or add a leaf would help your truck a bunch. And don't feel bad our 97 expedition is rated higer towing then our 86 F150 and my 88 F150 (all 4x4) the 97 smaller and weaker engine and I put a small travel trailer that weighs nothing (our 84 B2 towed it around) and the 97 was about to do wheelies no idea why it would do that I would think it would be able to handle (the 86 F150 holds it just fine) it so maybe I need to look into an add a leaf on that truck (the 97). Only reason I don't like Airbags is I am afraid they may get punctured on the backroads.
Trav

That's true, but temps likely were. I felt like an idiot driving away without my bluetooth OBD adapter to monitor transmisison temps.

Ryan, when was the transmission last serviced?

im not sure exactly when it was last serviced. I think it was within the year before I bought it in February. I can ask. I'm going to do a fluid change here real soon. Is there anything else I can do/need to do besides changing the fluid?

I mentioned in the other Meet thread that I'm ordering the bluetooth adapter and the app for my android with my next paycheck, so I'll hopefully be able to get some base info on temperatures.

how many miles do you have you may want to change your plugs if you haven't just yet. other then that I think you will be good like I said drop down in the V10 part of the forum they have a few threads about servicing your truck.
Trav

Thanks Trav,
I have just over 170k on the truck. I think the PO said the plugs were replaced within the last year. I'll drop in to the V10 forum and look around.