1997 Ford E350 Shuttle Bus Batt. Issues
 

Hello All! I havent been on this site in a while! Basically I have a project vehicle now and its almost paid off and I am getting to work!

Its a 1997 Ford E350 Shuttle Bus. Converted by StarTrans. It has 185,000 on it and runs and starts like a top. It has a high amp alt.
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps12ad3d89.jpg

Basically it has a 2nd battery under the passenger side. Since I bought it, it has never held a charge. It is extremely hard to access so I don't think I could even get it out if I wanted to.
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps5a48d998.jpg
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...psee1ff65b.jpg
I have tried using a batt charger and it didnt ever do anything. Doesnt charge off the alt. One day I randomly fired it up and boom! I had interior lights, and my rear heater worked, and so did my rear AC. the first time any of that has worked. I ran it for a few minutes and as soon as I shut it off none of that stuff has worked again. It has a batt guage on it that only worked for those brief few minutes. Heres a few photos.


Heres the positive terminal on the main battery. The red wire running off of it goes to my amplifier.
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...psda3370eb.jpg


And above the bus door is this big ol' box of fun.... dont even know where to start with this.......
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps96a3f7e2.jpg



And over on the drivers side of the engine compartment is this. Its just for the handicap ramp correct? (It has been removed). It had a blown 20amp fuse in it. What is it for? Should I get a new fuse for it? http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...psb7b606cb.jpg
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...psd8ba8dff.jpg




So then there is the dash. Still not sure what all of these do. The switch on the very left I put in and isnt wired to anything.
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps05c9abff.jpg


And heres this. Not wired to anything and I dont see a plug. Is it tucked up under the dash or something maybe?
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps1cde67a0.jpg



And last but not least. On the back these 3 lights I assume were hooked up to the hazard lights. But when I do brakes, turn signals, and hazards and none of these three light up. I really appreciate the help guys!:-jammin


http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t...psb0bd6051.jpg

Have you contacted StarTrans for a schematic to their added-on systems? I'm sure they'd be glad to sell you any replacement parts if it comes to that.

I tried contacting startrans and they said they couldn't find it and didn't reply again:P

Then you need to find a good Auto Electric guy and do it Old School ( read wire by wire ) .....Clean up the crap you don't need and be done with it....

Believe it or not most of your issues could be easily fixed by someone familiar with those sorts of electrical systems. I'm thinking a bus mechanic?

Without a schematic its almost impossible to know what the intended operation was designed to do, how it would function when working properly. Since StarTrans is of no help someone dealing with wheel chair lift vans or other type vehicle add-on would be a good place to start looking for help.

Wish I could be more help but the schematic is just that important. You could also post this in the Electrical Systems Forum too---lots of talented, experienced guys there too. Electrical Systems/Wiring - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Your coach power problems sound just like my Bus's problems. I found the charging wire from the chassis power box (driver side under brake master cylinder) was intermittant going to the coach battery. One day I had no power at all, stuck with doors open , I beat the living snot out of that box and it still working so far! Must be a bad connection or relay, but where it's located, NOT going to be easy fix...

As the coach battery is bad(will not hold a charge) I cannot open the doors with out the engine runnig. I am going to rewire my bus with better wires(bigger gauge wire) and rid that factory chassis power feed. I'll use a RV solenoid or a battery isolator diode to charge the coach battery.

Good luck with Startrans for any info. I needed info on the rear Carrier AC unit on how much R134 it takes. Never heard back from them....

Over all its a wonder how the coach(startrans) electrical system works with under size wires going to high amp motors and stuffed in places where problems could occure.

Here's my dashboard. its diffrent mounting than yours. I like my setup, at least I have a factory radio location still.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...id=222174&.jpg

This is after I installed a F-series tach cluster in it.

Yeah, I like your dash setup more. its a pain to have to look and reach above you to change songs.


Could you possibly put up a few photos of how your bus is set up? (powerbox, 2nd battery location). I would really appreciate it!:-jammin

After many many emails I finally got them to send me a few schematics for a 1996 bus and i am not sure if its the same. if you want i could email them to you:-wink

Yes, that will be helpfull. Send me a PM

I'll get some photos on my bus and of where the chassis power box is located.

Getbuck,

A couple of thoughts;

The battery under the curb side. Is it mounted to the frame rail? I've got a Turtle Top converted E350 that has one there. It charges off of the alternator, but is wired with a relay such that it isn't a "starting" battery. It powers all of the accessories like the rear heat/air, lights, etc., and on mine, the electric curbside door opener and my backup alarm. I can tell when that battery is getting weak when the bus is first started, the door won't operate and the backup alarm sounds weak. Then they start working once that battery has built up some juice. It has a relay that sends current to the battery once the bus is running. I think it is activated by alternator output. The point is, if that battery is bad, it is going to put a lot of strain on your alternator. It is a pain to replace, but do it anyway.

I've got a '96 E350 that has a second, smaller "accessory" battery under the hood. It is of similar circuitry design in that isn't in the starting circuit. It powers the trailer circuits. We were having issues with our trailer lighting. That battery was internally shorted and killing everything. About 3 years later, we had similar problems, and since the only lighting that we needed were the running lights, we bypassed that battery rather than replacing it again ($150 - 175 for an Interstate). No problems since. IF we were running a trailer that utilized the trailer accessory power circuit for lighting, sound system, etc. then keeping that battery functional would be important.

The Buss Hi-Amp unit that you photographed is a circuit breaker. What is wired into it, I don't know. I've got one like that on my F350 for my liftgate, so I would assume it is for your wheelchair lift. But, it could be for all of the stuff; lighting, heat/air, wheelchair lift, etc. in back. It could be part of that rear battery circuit as well.

The 20A fuse coming off of the rear circuit relay looks more like a power take-off for something else...perhaps for the high idle controller or something similar. Hard to say with out tracing it.

I DON'T like the ground wires that appear to be sitting right on top of that relay's positive terminal post...that just looks like short waiting to happen.

Do you have ANY power on that rear terminal block about the bus door?

Bruce

On my 95 chassis(96 titled) I only have the aux battery on the pass side. That charging relay shows in Ford's schematics but I cannot find it. I though it was inside the Powerbox located under the brake master cylinder. After digging the cover off, it was not there! Ever since I owned the bus, there was a charging problem to the aux battery. Well last sunday it finaly dumped out and would not charge the aux battery at all.

I did a quick bypass wire from the main battery though a knife switch to the aux battery. That made a big time change on how the aux battery is being charged. I now can run the rear AC and have amperage to spare!!

I'm going to do a total rewire of the coach electrical systems so I know what I have.

I finaly got around to rewire my bus. I totaly removed the aux battery from the front pass side and made up a new battery box under the steps. What made it nice was the steps were all metal! I just added frame work to support the MUCH better battery from the steps to the frame.

Just found where that factory aux battery is located on my bus. It was right under the main battery tray. The only way to properly get to it is via the headlight opening!!!! What a stupid way Ford did.

Anyway, that junk is all gone and where the aux bat was located I put the new charging solenoid there. I got to get a new alt belt as the old one is glazed badly and few more battery terminals to run the charge wire directly to the alternator. I should get much better charging as I have eliminated probly 4' of what looks like 8ga wire with about 3' of 4ga wire!

I did finaly find info about the Carrier AC systems, I posted in this forum. They are PDF files so some may not be able to read them.

Here's the link:

http://www.transportaircon.carrier.c...US-en/T299.pdf

Let me know if that link doesn't work and you need that file. I'll try emailing it.

Don't bother with startrans. Call Davey Coach. Parts service and likely factory startrans wiring diagrams. They are in Sedalia CO. +1 (303) 683-9500

Look for a battery separator that wont connect the batteries unless there is sufficient charge available. Kind of like what's above the oil fill cap. Since somebody was in there removing the wheelchair lift I figure its a case of undo what was done last like what the guy disconnected keeping from getting fried by a few hundred amps. Clean all the connections to the right of the 6th picture with the oil filler cap. Since things did work one time I'm thinking loose ground wire floating around after the ramp removed or the relay handling when the battery is in line with the system.

If there is a local guy that sells the big batteries to wheelchair oriented vehicles and such try asking him for suggestion when talking prices on batteries or asking him if the battery is the problem causing lights not to work. Try to act innocent instead of like you just want free advice. Those batteries might be reconditionable.

I'd track down relays and fuses. There might be a swing down for the batteries so that a tray slides out with the batteries.

Oh yah. my van running 2 batteries and an internal generator has a switch for running the batteries in parallel. Might figure out if you have and arrangement like that and check if the relay works. If the big batteries are dead don't hold the switch just a short click so you don't fry your battery. Check water levels and try a long charge since deep cycles take longer to charge as far as I know.

Update, my aux battery charging gremlin showed back up again.... Turns out it is the factory side failing. I aint going to figure that out, I am going to find a "run only" key switch power under the dash and operate the aux charge solenoid that way.

Other than that, with the bigger better battery I have much more power to the rear AC blowers. Still got to get those photos....

trying to find door motor actuator for under 300
 

Only place i can find a door motor is creative bus sales. Anyone have a place i can find the part thats not $436. 99 E450 eldorado shuttle.

If you've not yet looked on eBay that might be a good source for over stocked or discontinued parts like your door motor.

It might take a bit of sleuthing to find the exact part--with a bit of persistence you just might luck out.

HTH

I have a 1997 E Superduty shuttle bus that was also converted by StarTrans. Does anyone have the wiring diagrams? I have updated the whole interior and added a solar system (in process), I am want to tie in the solar batteries to power the main lights and door/upper lights. So trying to understand the DC panel. Also how the two batteries work. More so I can hook up the alternator to the new solar batteries so they charge while driving.

Thanks so much!

Hi,
Sorry, I know this was years ago, but if you still have the manual, I’d love a copy. I just bought one myself.

Thanks so much,
Alex

Hi,
Sorry, I know this was years ago, but if you still have the manual, I’d love a copy. Would you be able to send it over? I just bought one myself.

Thanks so much,
Alex

I have to search my old backups for that file and figure how to post it here.

Anyway, I got tired of all electrical issues Startrans made and totally redid the coach electrical power. So original schematics are useless for me now.

I found this intresting the way Startrans ran the rear AC wires. They used almost 35ft of wiring to drive those big blowers in rear AC unit! After my rewire I used aprox 10ft of 4ga wire to a new rear fuse/relay box!! Talk about a BIG TIME improvement from those rear blowers on high speed!

My current project is now to figure out a 2nd 130A 3G alternator to run the coach side and loose the 2nd rear AC compressor that finally failed by teeing into chassis AC system. Not much space in engine dog house.....

That's so clever! I tore my AC out. My bed is right under there. I know how often I would hit my head on it vs how often I would use it to cool the cabin. I will attempt a mini-split install. That plus the insulation and window covers should keep me covered. Thanks for the quick reply. Let me know what you find. Any info helps!

Hello Eddiec1564, I can use a copy too. I bought a 05 Turtle Top. I wonder if they use the same schematic.
I ordered a 2005 Ford E-series factory wiring manual. Don't know if it has any info related to cutaways.

I looked on several backups from that time frame and could not find that wiring manual. I lost a bunch of files it looks like too.... still looking though.


update, found it: its attached PDF file on this thread I think..

AC is the same. Thanks. I appreciate your help very much.

I emailed Turtle Top this morning and they send me a 66 page wiring schematic of the 2006 version which also works with the one I have. What a service!

How difficult is it to redo the wiring?

My shuttle bus comes with a wheel chair lift that leaks oil. I don't need the lift any way. The rest of them are just fast idle control for the Penn Tex Px-5RD alternator, the AC and the interior lights.

Thanks again.

Kin

For me, as I do fire alarm, burg alarm and access control systems its easy for me. It all depends on what you want to do and your capabilities. On my bus, it was a pain removing that rear AC harness as it was ran from passenger side front across top, down driver side B post behind driver seat through floor. Then it ran along the frame to back, then up and over back to passenger side! And then it went into rear AC unit. As I wanted to salvage that harness it had to pull it through all that and was not fun.

My setup is 4ga wire directly through a "MAXi" fuse from coach battery where I mounted it in the steps. Ran that to a rear fuse box/relay box, thats a run about 12ft max compared to almost 35ft!!! I got rid of the funky rear AC fan controls and found a factory rear AC control panel and ran those control wires(18ga 6 conductor) to relays in that fuse/relay box. Before I hardly felt air blowing at high speed, but now its very strong air blowing.

Also from that rear fuse box I run the power bed, water pump and lights and any other things I may install in future. I did run a 2ga ground wire from fuse/relay box area back to the door frame to get a solid ground as the battery is grounded to door frame and frame of truck. So that took care of power issues in the coach side. I now must figure a way to get a 2nd alternator mounted to charge/operate the coach side. Right now the 130amp 3G alternator will be maxed out with blowers running.

Right now I have repull the radiator and warranty it(hopefully) or resolder top tank back on if not warranty, dam crap parts now days... I'll have the front all apart to figure that out. Not much space with a 460

I did most of my car repairs except engine and transmission. I bought the Turtle Top to convert it into a stealth camper. The rear AC was wired and routed between the floor and the chassis so it will not be too much of a problem. Since the bus is only 150 sq. ft., I will relocate the battery tray from curb side to under the driver seat, put a split system where the rear AC fans were and the vent unit on the curb side in the middle of the cabin. Hopefully, I will be able to locate the battery isolator in the process. If not, I will replace the wiring starting from the point where the alternator wire connect to the battery and install a smart isolator. All the wires involved charging battery and grounding will be #1 or #0. Got a friend that owns a metal recycle yard so wiring supply should not be a problem.

I am also thinking about putting a 2nd alternator in place of the rear AC compressor. Some Jeep Grand Cherokee owners up north traded the AC for a 2nd alternator. Will have to stop by a local alternator rebuild shop to see if it can be done.

Turns out Turtle Top sent me a Chevy Transport schematics instead of Ford. The schematics look almost the same but the location of the wiring have yet to be checked out.

Wonder if anyone knows where the locator is on a 2005 Ford E450 Turtle Top.

SAME problem. No running lights, no interior lights, no rear AC and no rear heat. I attached a jump pack to the battery leads in the coach battery compartment as there was no battery. Everything started working! Been working on those marker lights for a week. So, I had a deep cycle battery in the garage and installed it and everything came on again. I went to the front panel and turned the rear AC unit off, then turned the rear heater unit off. Thought I heard a small pop and everything is no longer working. From what I've read here, I'll check and see if the battery terminals in the coach battery compartment are showing voltage. Maybe not and the battery is not charging. I've never owned a shuttle or any vehicle with a separate battery. I can't get it licensed until its inspected and it'll not pass with no marker lights.

Yea, Startrans sure did stupid things in the wiring of these vehicles. I finally gave up trying to fix their "design" and totally rewired my bus and corrected many flaws there.

What year is your bus as Ford did the aux battery hookup different between the years . On my bus I wound up using a 12V constance duty solenoid relay to charge up the aux battery. That worked fine till I went with dual alternator few years back.

Its been almost 2 years since I got tired of dealing with Startrans wiring issues and went with dual alternator setup on my bus. After much figuring, I got 2 alternators on my 460 engine. The smog pump locked up years ago so the coach alternator went in its place with custom bracket.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...7ce4ed2b37.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...7ce4ed2b37.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...3c5e3c8765.jpg

The top alternator is a factory 130A 3G which runs the chassis, bottom alternator is a 130A 3G from a Mercury Grand Marquis( or equ car) and runs the coach electrical system. I now can run rear AC blowers at full speed without any overload as with original setup below.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...67d2c235a1.jpg

I also tee'd the rear AC system into the chassis AC system. It does work, but I have a leak that have not found yet which is driving me crazy trying to locate.

mine is a 2002 E350 with a Diamond coach. I’ve never owned a multi battery vehicle before and this is my first bus. I was going to start the bus and see if I have 13 volts to charge the coach battery. I’m not really mechanical and being rural, seems no one knows much about them either.