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-   -   Sip Tank Pressure (WVO) - NEED VENT (http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1183295-sip-tank-pressure-wvo-need-vent.html)

CanadianBlake 08-17-2012 10:36 AM

Sip Tank Pressure (WVO) - NEED VENT
 
I am running a waste veg oil 2 tank system. My straight veg oil (SVO) is in a transfer tank in the bed of my 2002 F350 7.3L.

It is a better built 100 gallon tank with a hotfox and vented cap. However, I am having issues with too much pressure and my system can't equalize. The vent cap isn't enough I need to instal an external vent to the tank.

Any suggestions for a commercially available vent for transfer (sip) tanks?


Thanks

key words: venting, tank vent, external tank, diesel

timmyboy76 09-07-2012 11:09 AM

you can empty the tank, drill a hole, install a threaded barb, nut it from inside, then run hose from barb, to high point on truck?

SkySkiJason 09-11-2012 09:23 AM

There is no way your are building too much PRESSURE to cause a problem. A cap like this will allow some pressure and some vacuum in the tank - but in 170,000 miles on VO it has never been an issue for me.
UWS Replacement Fuel Cap for Transfer Tanks UWS Accessories and Parts UWSCAPS

Many do vent their VO tank to 'atmosphere' like timmy described, but this can increase condensation in the tank since as the tank cools - it draws in the moist overnite air. Some mitigate this problem by using a desiccant 'filter' on the vent line and placing the end of the hose in the engine compartment. (it will stay warm/dry under there longer than 'outside' the truck)

I suspect you have some other issue. Can you describe your conversion a little more?
What fuel pump(s) are you using?
What filter(s) are ya running?
How is your plumbing configured? (filter pre or post pump)
What kind of fuel lines?
What other heat do you have besides hotfox?

Sadly, most of the info on 'VO conversions' found on the web is poor at best... :-X15

Obviously you have a lot of time (and $$$) invested in this. Lets get it working right!!! :-drink

CanadianBlake 09-15-2012 10:17 PM

Thanks for the message Jason.

I actually did some thing similar to what timmyboy76 suggested and it seems to have helped.

I am only heating with the hotfox. I have an additional fuel pump on the engine side of the valves. Separate filters for VO and diesel. So fuel goes through filter before fuel pump. I was going through filters every 1000km. However not because they were dirty. I filter down to 1 micron. Just the act of changing them seemed to release the air lock in the system.

The system was installed by plantdrive.ca Which I do not recommend by the way.

The vented cap I have is similar to what you suggested. However, it seems to be constantly bunged up by VO.

Fuel lines are 3/8 high heat hose.

I have tried a variety of filters with the same result. Ramco, FRAM, Luberfilter. Water separating and not.

SkySkiJason 09-15-2012 11:51 PM

Yeah, that system SUCKS for a PSD. Literally... :-roll Having the filter before the pump is a poor design - especially on a system that operates at ~60psi. This is the biggest factor contributing to your poor filter life. Also, that is nowhere near enough heat to get WVO to flow adequately thru the filter - even if it was on the pressure-side, and it hasn't even started to get cold outside yet!!

I'm sorry about your problems... My recommendation is to shove that POS conversion up p-drive's *** and build yourself a CV system based on the Vegistroke design. You want a totally redundant fuel system with the filter on the pressure-side of the pump and I suggest using TIH fuel lines and a 'looped return' - putting the extra fuel from the FPR thru TIH and back into the suction line where it comes out of the hot fox.

I have helped several people 'fix' this company's crappy VO system. In addition to the fact it doesn't work right, the ones I've seen looked like a middle school science project - and a FAILING one at that. Some were even professionally installed by the company!!! I'd be more than pissed, because I know what they charged for that junk and I know what it costs to build it. :-X15

CanadianBlake 09-16-2012 02:03 PM

You are so correct I had my system "professionally" installed. It was so poorly designed that I haven't even contacted them to tell them. I cannot believe that company still exists. I'm done being pissed, as a student I put in a whole summer's wages for the system. I have washed my hands of plant drive and am trying to save enough money to redo the system.

It's working now, but I'm not sure it will be working throughout the winter. I'd like to make changes similar to your suggestions but I can't find anyone I trust to do VO work in Canada.

CanadianBlake 09-16-2012 02:20 PM

Heard good or bad things about the frybird folks in Seattle?

timmyboy76 09-16-2012 03:05 PM

I havnt bud. Wasnt looking for systems either, considering the prices of them, and you still needed to install it. No plug/play, that i found. ANd because of that, i went the DIY route. Jason and a few other members helped tremendously...(here and other site..:-X22).

Only real thing i did different was instead of a "looped" design for purging, i installed the "heart"/manifold, in the box. Having a line from it, to the purge, seems to work great, when its time for purging. Just happened to install a "greasecar" regulator as well in the box, for the relief of pressure..(was having high pressure on wvo side, when run'n d2 for warm-up system). Remember Jason say'n it could be related to the split shot injectors that are installed. Anyway, did the trick, got ur set to 95psi(bio lines rated for 105psi), and work'n great. Only a little of diesel trickl;ing into wvo tank prior to wvo get'n warm enough to flip switch.

I went this purging route, because try'n to stuff another line for reutrn/purge wise, was outta the question. Ran a harline up but not touching, where the downpipe is, and try'n to fit another was inpossible. So much so, that i cant do a 4in turbo back, but o well.

I also have a manifold mounted in the valley. There 4-threaded holes in there, i used to mount a metal plate and mounted then the manifold to it. Works awesome, and plus, living in CA, when time for smogging, CAN NOT SEE A THING. ;)

Factory D2 side, i installed the CV's under the factory hardline..(got p/n if needed). Other than that, its get'n the plumbing fittings correctly ordered/installed, with no leaks, but not that bad of a design or job, to do.

SkySkiJason 09-16-2012 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianBlake (Post 12276954)
Heard good or bad things about the frybird folks in Seattle?

I consider the owner a friend and feel he has a superior product - for everything BUT a late-model PSD... As far as getting a product from him, that's really been a problem lately. :o

This is the ONLY system you can buy that actually works for PSD's: :-jammin
WVO Diesel Conversion | SVO Grease Conversion | Ford Vegistroke Powerstroke | Biodiesel Conversion

I'd still recommend a few 'mods' that will make their system work even better! :-X22

My F350 is DIY and my Excursion uses a V3 manifold. ;)

CanadianBlake 09-17-2012 12:34 AM

Ok. I like where you guys are going with this. I'm the bad situation of not really having a place or full tools where I can really work on this while I am at school.

I will call the guys at Vegistroke and see what I can figure out. Maybe have a diesel mechanic here I trust do some of the work for me.

I'm assuming the V4 is the new version of the V3 you're using?

SkySkiJason 09-17-2012 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianBlake (Post 12278643)
Ok. I like where you guys are going with this. I'm the bad situation of not really having a place or full tools where I can really work on this while I am at school.

I will call the guys at Vegistroke and see what I can figure out. Maybe have a diesel mechanic here I trust do some of the work for me.

I'm assuming the V4 is the new version of the V3 you're using?

Yes, I fergot 'version' 4 is out now. :-X22

This system is not too hard to install yourself with minimum tools. Its as 'plug and play' as you can get - NO fabrication required and IIRC there are (3) wires you have to tap. Download the install manual and see what I mean. ;)

CanadianBlake 09-20-2012 12:41 PM

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the support. I looked into the Vegistroke and it is awesome!

I had hoped that I could add some V4 parts and slowly update my system but I have now realized that is not going to work. And I don't have the $5000+ right now to buy a whole new system.

I think the short term solution is a heat exchanger and fuel pump on the supply side of the filter. I'm just not sure if I want to add another pump or just move the additional pump that is on the engine side of the filters now. My feeling is that 3 fuel pumps is a bit excessive, but since my system has so many issues with it another fuel pump wouldn't hurt.

Looking at:
30 plate exchanger:
Flatplate heat exchanger Catalog Products Pacific Biofuel Supplies – Products Pacific Biofuel Supplies

and the
Raptor 150 Diesel/Vegetable oil fuel pump.
Frybrid Vegetable Oil Fuel Systems -- Catalog

Thoughts? How about the order? Hotfox - pump - exchanger - filter or hotfox-exchanger -pump- filter?

timmyboy76 09-20-2012 04:23 PM

mines...tank, pump, filter, h/e, tih, heads. My purge is b4 the filter. Dont wanna push that crap back into pump/tank, but you do want to flush the h/e.

I'm run'n the raw power pump from wvodesigns...(75psi pump). Ya, theres bad blood amongst a crowd, but the pump works great and a 5yr warranty. Also got my h/e from them, i beleive...20plate h/e.

rocketman2440 09-20-2012 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmyboy76 (Post 12290937)
I'm run'n the raw power pump from wvodesigns...(75psi pump). Ya, theres bad blood amongst a crowd, but the pump works great and a 5yr warranty. Also got my h/e from them, i beleive...20plate h/e.

What bad blood are you talking about Timmy? I also run their raw power pump, and it works great. Their customer service is second to none, always quick to respond, and make the customer happy!

SkySkiJason 09-20-2012 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketman2440 (Post 12291588)
What bad blood are you talking about Timmy? I also run their raw power pump, and it works great. Their customer service is second to none, always quick to respond, and make the customer happy!

The Raptor does not have the balls to feed VO to a PSD - scratch it off the list. ;)

I could fill a truck bed with the failed $500 pumps like this one I have seen. They all have inherent flaws and the manufacturers (or copy-cats :-roll) have not figured out how to make one reliable. At that price, he can likely fix it and 'make the customer happy' several times and still make a profit...

My problem is, I can burn 2x the price of the pump in diesel before they can turn my pump around. :-arrgh I gave up and went back to using a stock PSD pump and a FPR. These pumps can be had for $40ea now with a 'lifetime' warranty - and if one does go tits-up while you are on the road, every autoparts in the country can get one the next day if its not already on the shelf. The Airtex brand at parts store is ~$150 and has a one-year warranty, but I have yet to burn one up. My first one went 70k miles before I 'upgraded' to a Raptor, then a FASS (since raptor didn't cut it). After the FASS started crapping out the 2nd time, I got pissed enough to go back to PSD pump. The current Airtex has ~50k miles on it.

CABlake,
I'm sure you can go to a CV system for what you'd spend on that type of pump, a FPHE and the necessary fittings/hardware ya need to change your junk around.

$40 fuel pump
$150ish FPR
$200ish for Dave's PTFE-lined SS braided hoses for the engine and CV's (it can be done cheaper...)
$2.25/ft plus $6/end for TIH
$60 for an aux coolant pump

Plus some $$ for fittings and fabbing up some brackets to mount this stuff on the frame rail - and you're just up to the fuel pump you are considering. This system not only works, it works GOOD! :-jammin


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