351 Cleveland vs 302
 

My son has a 1960 F100 with a 351 cleveland and 4 barrel holley carb, it is too much engine adn he cannot afford to drive it. I spoke with someone that is interested in trading a 302 with a 2 barrel carb for the 351 and 4 barrel. Both are complete engines and in solid running order, what are the values of the two engines. Since he would be doing the labor to swap them out, would it be too much to ask that he also pick up the cost of the flywheel and possibly new clutch depending on the sizes?

Condition of the engine is most important. If you will be getting the engine you want and having the work done for you, you are making out well. What tranny are you running. Going from big block to small might bring a few expense items that you didn't plan on.

The one part that does interchange between the Cleveland and Windsor series engines is the flywheel. If your current setup is required for the operation of the trans, be sure to keep it. You need the correct flywheel to work with your bellhousing and starter.

If you're getting a good running 302 plus installation in exchange for the 351, that's a fair deal, as long as he does a good job and it's in good running order when he's done. All things being equal, the 351C would be worth around $200-400 more than a comparable 302. It will be a relatively easy swap as the bellhousing and motor mounts will work for either. But it's still work.

Just to clarify on what spurredon said, the Cleveland is not a big block, just a different small block. It only looks big because of the head design. The 351C block itself is actually smaller than the 351W. Changing the exhaust will be the biggest hassle in doing the job.

Thanks for the clarification there 52 Merc!

according to my hollander interchange book early 289 302 with the 28oz imbalance is the same as 351c as long as its not a 351m motor

I'm surprised nobody has asked, does the Cleveland have 2v or 4v heads?

Look for the mark at the top corner of the heads, it'll either be a 2 or a 4.

That's going to be the major price difference. If it has the 4v heads, it's not a fair exchange at all. Just the heads and intake are worth over $500 now days.

Even if the clevor is a 2v motor, I feel the other guy is getting the better end of the deal. Try to get more out of the trade.

Go to any scrapyard and look for a 302, they're everywhere. Now look for a Cleveland, good luck.


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in this neck of the woods no one wants Cleveland anything hardly any more it's all 302ho or gt40p heads forged pistons cobra stuff don't even hardly see big block stuff

Thanks everyone for the replies this is helping me a lot. I will definitely look to see if it is a 4v or 2v head.

This may be a silly suggestion, but first a question: Does that 351c have a lumpy cam or anything else besides the 4bbl that makes it "too much engine"? And what axle ratio is in the truck?

My suggestion: Rather than change motors with all that entails, put a SMALL 2bbl on the 351c, and dial the timing back for regular fuel, if it will take it. Now depending on the cam and axle this may be a worthless idea....

BUT, if you have some lumpy cam in there and short gears to match, the 302 is going to suck gas like a drunk as well, on top of straining to run at those revs.

Maybe.

Good luck with it whichever way you decide.

How bad is the gas mileage now and how much do you expect it to change dropping from a 351 to a 302? What is the ratio on the rear end of the existing truck and how hard are we stepping on the gas? I had a truck with a 460 a few years back and if I didn't kick the carb wide open it did pretty decent, if the secondaries were open all bets were off.

TW- let me offer some help here....as back in the 80's I had a Ranchero GT 390 4V and gas prices shot up through the roof at that time......

Swaping out for the 302 is really not going to gain much at all...the 302 in trucks was under-powered so in reality, most used more throttle to get it going- end result, less MPG than rated at.

holley use to make (and I'm sure they still do) a 2V Economaster carb.....inexpensive and with a 4v to 2V adapter will bolt right up....i put one on my Ranchero and I can tell you this.....I gained 3-4 mpg city & hwy (IIRR- I went from 10/11 mpg city to 15/16 city), throttle response below 40 mph was better than the 4V, 40-60 mph was about the same, 60+ is started falling off a little and by 75+- well, it was all out of gas at 80 mph.....

IMHO, this would be the best solution.....