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-   -   making bio-diesel (http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1115819-making-bio-diesel.html)

neader 11-15-2011 11:18 PM

making bio-diesel
 
Hi guy's I have made around 300 Gal. of bio-diesel so far.
but I ruined my last 30 Gal. batch when it cool it turned to gel.
Can any one tell me what could have gone wrong?


thank you :-huh

fabmandelux 11-16-2011 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neader (Post 11042582)
Hi guy's I have made around 300 Gal. of bio-diesel so far.
but I ruined my last 30 Gal. batch when it cool it turned to gel.
Can any one tell me what could have gone wrong?


thank you :-huh

Welcome to the biodiesel forum! :-wink

We need more info to help ya out. What did it titrate at? Process you used, etc.......

neader 11-16-2011 11:56 PM

It titrated @ 5 used single stage I had 30 Gallons of WVO used Standard Single Stage Base Recipe Calculator at 20% Methanol = 6 Gallons of Methanol 40.1 ounces of NaOH cooked for one hour and a half then I let it settle and then it gel-up.
I may have over heated it could that have made it gel-up?

binuya 11-17-2011 10:59 AM

My first guess, (not knowing exact specifics) would be too much moisture in the wvo. Did you test for moisture content?

fabmandelux 11-17-2011 11:03 AM

Could be to much moisture, or overheating may have driven off some of the methanol.

neader 11-17-2011 05:44 PM

Thank you for the information I didn't test for moisture but it is a possibility because
the wvo I got was not my regular sores. Is there any way too fix it?

fabmandelux 11-17-2011 05:54 PM

Can you save it? Probably.
First you need to figure out if you need more Naoh, or more Methanol. I would titrate again just to see how many FFA's are present. Then try a small (1 pint, or quart) sample or two, heat up and reprocess, and vary the amount of Naoh or Methanol. Then see if you get a positive reaction. When you do then you can use those results and reprocess the whole batch.

One of the reasons it turned to "gell" is because your using Naoh. If you use Koh it would not have gelled, just not converted......

neader 11-17-2011 09:06 PM

Ok that is what I will do thank I hate to loose that batch . And I'll try to use Koh
instead of the lye in the future I'll let you know how it went .

Beechkid 11-18-2011 02:46 PM

To start with...get a good attorney.

To start with, when you collect, store any product that is combustible, flammable or poses a potential environmental effect in quantities of 30 gallons or more, you are required to have a secondary containment system, spill control and a permit, issued by local, state or federal epa or public health agency (local). This is required under both the CERCLA, the international fire code (adopted by local and state agencies) Article 79 and 80, and permit is required by article 4.

You must also purchase caustics to distill the product....a permit is also required for any mixing, dispensing and distillation process- same codes. These same codes also require you to have Class I, division 1 or 2 electrical wiring for any inside mixing, storage and dispensing.

While it is not illegal in most states to sell the equipment to make the product, it is illegal for anyone to sell the caustics to you in the quantity required for this process without a business license and other permits- including for transportation (under the Federal code of regulation, part 40 & 49). if you are reported by anyone, they will receive a 10% reward from the national "We-Tip" program- the average (total collected fine and investigation) fine for a "small business" is $1 million dollars, the average clean-up including disposal, assessment and temp permits is $2 million...and this can be instituted by any environmental, public health, fire department, law enforcement agency, district attorney and any local, state or federal agency.

While many will chime in that there's nothing wrong in doing this, or I don't know what I am talking about, check out Tuscan AZ, 2002 the feds came in and arrested a homeowner not for making bio-diesel, but because of the process, they went to jail for child endangerment (seems they had a little fire- I don't recall if it was related to the bio-diesel or not), but the local gov did the reports, the state & feds choose to clean the mess up and prosecute and fine and take everything the guys homeowners insurance would handle...then guess what, although the judge ordered restitution and reduced the charge from a felony to a misdemeanor, he can’t get homeowners insurance...from any company. It's really not worth it.

BTW, the latest industry news is in Florida where using published website chat information, a homeowner was fined $500k for making biodiesel (final appeal decision after 3 years) & it included obtainment of regulated products (the sellers got busted too), illegal mixing, dispensing, environmental damage/contamination including ground & vapor particulate was confirmed in the garage walls.....the nail on the coffin, this guy like to ask questions and get advise of how to make, store, use etc on a chat page......

fabmandelux 11-18-2011 02:53 PM

Damn! 7 years and 10,000+ gallons..........Maybe I should quit.......NOT!

Rushmore X 11-18-2011 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fabmandelux (Post 11052638)
Damn! 7 years and 10,000+ gallons..........Maybe I should quit.......NOT!

:-missingt

Beechkid 11-18-2011 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushmore X (Post 11053182)
:-missingt

You will eventually, either from the carcinogens you are directly exposing yourself to or a system failure typically caused by electrolysis or poor electrostatic protection- meaning a static charge causes a fire.

per national data record base, annually 8% of the bio-diesel home brewers locations are discovered by either an emergency response, environmental contamination (as a result of property sale either directly or adjoining property), child abuse reporting by school officials (required by law for chemical exposures) or yes, you yourself had to go to a Dr.- yes, they too are required to report any chemical related exposure (suspected).

fabmandelux 11-18-2011 07:57 PM

Why are you even here? If all you want to do is cause trouble you can find another forum.

I've been on this forum for 6 years with hundreds of others and no one has ever reported anything like what your spewing.

Beechkid 11-19-2011 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fabmandelux (Post 11053683)
Why are you even here? If all you want to do is cause trouble you can find another forum.

I've been on this forum for 6 years with hundreds of others and no one has ever reported anything like what your spewing.

1. to keep people from being injured from their own lack of knowledge
2. To keep people from loosing their homes, life savings (whatever they have left)

and no, this isn't new, as a former state & federal public safety offical who is still employed as a consultant on these specific issues, I have posted several times in the past 15+ years about this, people storing racing fuel in their garages and have sent numerous e-mails...in about 10% of the pvt msges, I have recieved appreciation when they verified what I said and in 3 specific situations regarding the making of bio-diesel, valivated the complaints these individuals had recieved from their immediate neighbors (one being a rancher whose water table he believed was contaminated, in Central California- Tulare County to be exact near Porterville, and was looking to find blame with anyone- yes very doubtfull that this had anything to do with the H2O issue) & immediate repercussions - in this case with the neighboringing rancher, he removed of the "brew" making devices, containers and products one day befor a search warrant was issued on his property.

and believe me, it doesn't even have to be a local or county agency who takes up the complaint.........state, federal, including fish & game, USDA, any EPA official, AQMD (because of the off-gasing/vapor release they also have full authority)

and even past upset friends or co-workers or friendly competitors who would like to buy your land at a reduced rate....people in general who may have a beef with you can drop a dime and make your life miserable....I have seen that more than once in rural ag areas. One rancher i personally had direct involvement with, brought a tank of ammonia to use as fertilizer (yes a common practice with permit).....a neighboring ag owner had wanted to buy his land for years...when he found out about the tank, he dropped the dime directly to the state attorney generals office.....I was called in as part of the team,
EPA, DOT, State Hwy Patrol, County AG & OSHA all issued fines...the OSHA alone was $7500 base plus $1000 per employee on the books for the past 30 days the tank had been there.

He filed for bankrupcy, his "good neighbor" bought his property at auction for $150 per acre in 2009.


And really, is this any difference in the legality someone getting directions and supply sources to illegally grow marijuana? or cocaine? Heroine? PCP?....a felony is a felony....and what is kinda funny, people on the Pro-drug web sites say the same things...

"I've never heard such things"
"Why are you causing all this trouble"

Consider that your replies are the same as a one with an issue about designing, promoting criminal conduct that they otherwise cannot justify in any other way.

Rushmore X 11-19-2011 09:55 PM

Interesting, the attorneys that I work out with thought it was pretty cool that I made my own fuel. I even ran a couple questions by them... We make our bio in a shed about a hundred feet from the house, and dispose of the glycerol in the landfill on the compost pile. Wonder if it's a California thing??? }>


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