Ford and Toyota joint venture?
 

Has anyone else heard about a joint venture between Ford and Toyota to make some sort of hybrid truck? I caught the tail end of a story on the news earlier this evening, but I can't find any info about it online.

Here's some info for ya.

Ford and Toyota Partnering Up to Produce Hybrid Trucks - PickupTrucks.com News

And more info here.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...a-team-up.html

It was in the news today in my local paper in the business section. I wish Ford would bag the hybrid truck idea and move on the diesel option, myself. I would hate to have to replace the battery on a Hybrid vehicle at $3000 a pop. GM already tried a hybrid 1/2 ton pick up and the performance and mileage were disappointing and not worth the extra cost. I think it's just a gimmick to please the treehuggers that won't work out very well in the end.

It's as sad day when Ford teams up with those granny killing, cover-up artist.
It still irks me to no end how they put pride (inability to admit failure) and money over innocent peoples lives! Not just the idiots who bought their products, but everyone else out on the road that they put at risk. Now Ford is in bed with them? unbelievable.
These tree huggers don't realize how ungreen it is to produce the batteries and such for the "green" Prius As well as the coal ash produced to charge electric cars.

I will step down off of my anti-Toyota soapbox now and return you to previously scheduled thread :D

i want to see diesel-electric

I mostly agree.

A 2011 GMC Sierra Hybrid is rated at 20city/23highway. I am fairly easily getting upwards of 18 city with my 2011 5.0L FX4 F-150. And a solid 21.5mpg highway ''at 70mph'' I know that my trucks only rated at 14city/19highway, but I am impressed that with the right driving habits I can achieve close to the GM hybrids mileage figures, all the while driving a less expensive and much more capable truck.

Honestly though...A small diesel is out of the question to...Even if one of the automakers brings a small diesel to the US the government will ruin it. After its done passing all of their emission tests and mandates they will require it to undergo it'll add 10grand to the MSRP and it'll get crappy fuel mileage because of all the emission control equipment it'll have.

Another problem with diesels in general is this...Most of the public is relatively ignorant towards engines. I've learned that most people today still think of diesels as smoke belching, slow, noisy engines...Put in the general publics eye a gas engine is seen as faster,quiter,cheaper,cleaner...Even if its not entirely true...That's how many people see it. Diesels sell well with the H.D crowd because people who buy Superdutys generally have towed heavy loads before and they know that the pro's of owning a diesel in that instance outweigh the con's. Buyers of trucks the F-150's size and smaller though are generally more ignorant about that kind of thing. So if or if not a diesel engine will sell well with the F-150 crowd is still a question mark.

I was really hoping that if hybrids are going to be the next big thing in the truck world that it would be the hydraulic set up…vs the gas/electric set up.

(See Link for Hydraulic hybrid F-150 here.)
Ford F-150 Used to Develop 40 MPG Hydraulic Hybrid Powertrain - PickupTrucks.com News

My question in all of this is as follows...Are Ford and Toyota planning for their 1/2 ton trucks to be exclusively hybrids? Or are they just going to expand their hybrid lineup and still keep non-hybrids available?

Hyundai and Kia are using the latest and greatest direct injected engines available and they are achieving some awesome mpg and performance numbers.

I think for any car maker to continue with hybrid exploration is, they are throwing resources in the wrong direction.

GTDI is the best overall solution IMHO and not because I have one but because it's proven to work and net better numbers than GM's heavier Hybrids.

Is the US government going to let that happen though? It seems like they're regulating the ***** out of diesels preventing future development.

GTDI
Gas Turbo Direct Injection, hence, our Ecoboosts. :D Small diesels will be handicapped for ever as I see it.

The EPA is doing a good job of putting this country out of business. I agree that we need some regulation, but how clean are these new heavy duty trucks when they are choked down with all of this crap these days. They use more fuel and urea, or whatever that urine stuff is, that they inject in the system. It seems to me that a higher mpg means less exhaust emissions in the long run.
Another example is the diesel Jetta. The European model gets about 65mpg while the same choked down model over here gets about 45mpg. Seems to me in my simple little mind that if it gets 20mpg more, 2 65mpg, it can't be polluting very much at all.
This is the same reason that so much manufacturing has gone to China because of the choking over regulation of the EPA and they must be stopped before we become the United States of China!!!
Direct injection is good, but still has some long term bugs to be worked out.

I echo Jimmy's sentiments. The power that the EPA has needs to scaled way back if this country is ever going to be great again. And I might also add that the auto industry has been the prime target from the beginning while the big corporate polluters have basically been untouched. The utility companies and big corporations have polluted more than the the automobile. And while we all would like better fuel economy and more power, mandating the currently proposed MPG standards has been impulsive and arbitrary without much thought as whether it's practical or without any thought given to the cost to the consumer.

Great...now, not only abuse about Fix Or Repair Daily...but I can hear it now.."hey did you hear the one about the Ford and Toyota ? One you could NOT stop and the other you couldn't get started ! " from all the haters...:-roll

Ford - Toyota Hybrid Partnership
 

For a company so concerned about its image, trumping 'no bailouts" etc, then do this!

Dont see how this helps image at all, I think Ford should and could have done this inhouse and create new jobs here, were a sending our children to college and there are enough smart minds here to do the job! not sub it out!

Oh I know the beancounters are going to trump the status quo in that this will cut cost, and speed up the process, been there and done that enough!!!!! Thy sure dont mind charging $8,000 plus for the new 6.7 powerstroke do they?

This just weakens the Ford Brand and image, while I give credit to Alan Mualally for a great job in getting Ford through the rough times, the job is not finished, and his product team is showing weakness, killing Mercury, Ranger pickup, rear wheel drive Lincolns, seems his weakness is he is a big fan of Toyota, and we seem to be heading that way! He is good at closing plants and cutting cost!

Mualally is big on ONE FORD, then let that include 'inhouse' work just like the 6.7 Diesel!

if i wanted a toyota i would move to japan. i like the F-150 battle axe
the way it is.....FORD...READ MY LIPS.....NO NEW AXES !!!!!

Ford and GM partnered on the six speed transmission. Ford and Mazda, Ford and Volvo, Ford and Jag.

If I ever got stupid and jumped off the Ford bandwagon, it would be Toyota all the way for me.

So if you wanted a superduty youd move to mexico?


Who cares if Ford wants to join up with Toyota, its probably a decent idea for Ford, since Toyota is one of the industry leaders.

wouldnt wanna work with the japanesse on anything. famous for stealing your ideal and backstabbing... look what they did with gm on that pontiac vibe plant in califronia.. nummi...

Interesting to read some of these comments. As I pointed out in the original thread that Tim posted a link to...Ford has been buying hybrid technology from Toyota for quite some time...Escape/Mariner/Fusion/MKS. As Tim also pointed out...Ford has collaborated with Gub-ment Motors on transmissions...platforms/AWD systems with Volvo...and the list goes on. It is truly a Global Economy and it makes more sense for Ford to collaborate with the recognized leader in hybrid technology than to invest billions of $$$$ in developing their own.

I'm sure that you're aware that the Tundra is currently more American than the F-150. Does that make them less of a truck??? I work in the showroom of a dealership that sells both Ford...AND...Toyota. If I were in the market for a compact truck...I would definitely buy a Tacoma over a Ranger. Ford has neglected the Ranger for a long time...virtualaly giving that market to Toyota. FYI...I haven't owned anything but a Ford for the last 20 years.

I also agree with those who don't think that hybrid is the be all end all...but...it's the best thing we have going right now. There are other technologies that show more promise...IE hydrogen...but...the $$$$$$ required to bring that technology to the mass market is probably more than anyone would be willing to...or...able.spend.

And finally...for those of you who point out the failings of the Japanese government/society...you should dig into your history books more. There are a lot of things that the good old U S of A has done in the past that we shouldn't be too proud of!!!

Hopefully we can keep this in the open forum and explore other's thoughts.

Yes - Ford and Toyota joint venture!
 

We own two Toyota 4Runner SUVs (those based on the Tundra chassis), and one Ford F450 SuperDuty (because we have to have something to pull our 20,000 lb 5th wheel).

Over the several years that we've owned these vehicles, we have often speculated on the best and the not-so-best of features ... and have often commented that if these two companies actually got together, they could really k*** *** !!!

So we could not be happier to hear about this !!! :)

v/r,
Paul

Diesel technology has come a long way over the years. I believe that a diesel will perform just as well as any hybrid and be less expensive over the long term than a hybrid anything by anybody. I just have a hard time justifying $3500 for a battery replacement for a hybrid. And the batteries do need replacement every so often. And I don't think that a hybrid pickup will ever be able to tow 20K lbs. like a diesel pickup can.

I too would much rather see Diesel Technology come into play instead of Hybrids, But the EPA is working to make sure that won't happen. For some reason the enviromentalist in this country really hate diesel engines despite the fact they burn their fuel just as clean if not cleaner than any gasoline engine on the market. From the way it looks like things are going as of this moment in time, I predict in the future most H.D trucks will be powered by Diesel/Electric hybrid powertrains, which if made correctly should have no issue pulling 20K+ pounds seeing as most freight trains today use Diesel Electric hybrids and 20K pounds is feather weight to those. The big question on my mind is how much extra is all this hybrid Bull**** going to add to price of the truck? Diesel engines alone already add almost 10,000$ to the price tag. Add another 5 or 10 grand to that for the hybrid technology and you're looking at a truck that cost 15 or 20K more than you're avarage gas powered H.D truck today.

Europe know's how good Diesel is, that's why something like 75% of all cars and trucks there are powered by Diesel engines. The Europeans drive diesels because they are more effiecent than gas engines. We American's only use Diesels because of their ability to tow heavy loads I.E F-350/3500...etc...etc. Sad fact is most of the public is realtivly ignorant towards engines and how they function. Most of the people I know ''Who aren't car people'' think of Diesel engines as slow noisy smoke belching mechanical dinosaurs so they won't even give them a second look.

(And to the commenter who mentioned hydrogen)

I couldn't agree with you more. In my eyes Hydrogen has always been the most plauseable fuel for the future. And you're correct it would cost a good sum of money to establish a hydrogen infastructure but I personally think that would be money well spent and would pay for itself in the long run. In the mean time I don't understand why we don't use CNG in America. We've got TON's of it rigt under neither our feet in our American soil. Enough so that it could totally take us off the tit of the middle east oil companys. But I don't expect any of this to happen...The people in charge of this country actually do something right?!? Haha that's a good one.

This discussion isn't about one fuel source versus another. It's about the collaboration of two major players in developing a better mouse trap.

Ford and Toyota Research & Development
 

I do not feel that in the end analysis that this joining of forces with Toyota will help Ford at all. I would like to see the brass at Ford rethink this. Does their decision to do this affect me purchasing a Ford product in the future? Yes it does and not in the positive sense. I believe it to be a poor decision. ( See Edsel )

honestly...don't care ..I will not buy a new anything because of many factors ..mostly I LIKE to tinker ..I want to be able to work on my car or truck ,and not with hooking up to the on board diagnostic..my work truck are mid 90s because I can afford them and work on them ..hybrid is fine if you like that ..it just dosnt matter to me ..I will never own one , my new to me truck is a 53 ford F-350 ..it will cost less the your replacement battery to run for the next 5 years and still be worth what I paid for it ..I look at flex fuel and hybrids like a Bic lighter ..when it's empty throw it away ..not gonna buy a car like that ..but others will ..and that will make money for the share holders ..all that Ford needs to stay operating..

M5R2 transmission since 1988 by Toyota
 

Not a bad transmission. But, I don't like the oil slinger being made out of plastic and the two little plastic nubs which hold it to the spinning shaft. If anything causes the nubs to shear, then you are looking at a big rebuild costs. And if you don't know to put ATF into it, and you put gear oil instead, then again you are looking at a big rebuild. Except for those two weak links, it is reputed to be a really good transmission by Toyota for Ford.

Back then ford owned stock in Mazda. They owned Volvo, Jaguar and land rover. The reason ford didnt need the bail out money is because they sold everything except Ford, Lincoln and Mercury then got loans from the banks.

I find the whole cooperation concept interesting. Back in the 70's, when the government began mandating emission controls, the big 3 wanted to pool their resources and ideas to come up with a standardized system that would have saved years of development and millions of wasted, repetitive dollars spent. The government denied all their requests claiming collusion and anti-trust violations. Today, the largest corporations in the world are allowed to build whole vehicles together.

X2
If toyota has anything to do with it I hope they install a big Red button on the middle of the dash labeled "Emergency STOP"

i think its stupid...i dont see anything wrong with ford now so why try and fix it...i for one would never buy anything with toyota name on it..... ill stick to my dentsides and bricknoses... these trucks are truely classic ford and built it America!!

?
 

You like your power when its hot, or a flip a switch when its dark don't you. Or we could go all nuke, then when they have a melt down we can thin the population down and stimulate the medical field with cancer treatments, but then all will be ok because we met the EPA air regulations.
So whats the answer? It has not been pushed on us yet, or has it.:-X18

My idea too. Especially if it's done with minimal politics.

I like to see ford and toyota join. I don't really care if the dumb rednecks use all the rice-words, they're too dumb to admit that toyota is one hell of a force to argue against. Look what happened when ford penciled a deal with yamaha and the SHO taurus came out-pure bliss that i wished grew bigger. (I'd love to see a 460 with yamaha heads etc). Anyway i hope the best for the ford/toyota venture. The only 2 auto companies that know how to design a good 4x4 gets my vote. I'm afraid that politics will get in the way tho and not let the hybrid vehicles achieve maximum efficiency. It would be easy for them to build a stout and SIMPLE-yes i said....ahem....SIMPLE! Electric powertain and charge it with a small diesel generator, locomotive style but instead they will design an overly complicated hybrid system so we can't save $

Ford built Quest vans for Nissan.
They should bring the Edsel back first.

A complete line of diesels would be a better idea.
What happened to the diesel Transit Connect for the US?

I have an '88 silverado that gets 23.5mpg highway. What is up with that? Get better milage in it than my '99 with a smaller engine.
It is a conspiricy with the oil companies.
Same with changing oil every few thousand miles.
Can you name me a person that can honestly say their engine quit because they didn't change their oil? Imagine all the oil that could be saved if this one brainwash myth were debunked?

Ford / Toyota Partnership
 

JMHO, But I wouldn't do it if I was Ford. Ford already has very good Hybrid technology, arguably the best, AND the most popular and best light trucks on the market. Toyota will spin it to sell their trucks as being as good or the same as Ford and cut into market share just when Ford is returning to glory.

To Mooseye,

Yes I can say I know of someone that had an engine failure because of not changing oil often enough. He had a Ford Ranger, and let it go typically to about 10,000 miles. on this one particular occasion he left it go out past 14,000. Now the weird part. He took it to a dealer and had an oil change done and on the way to work the oil light came on. he pulled over and checked oil. it was full and clean. by the time he got to work (about 12 more miles) his engine was REALLY overheated. After turning it off it wouldn't turn over any more. He called the dealer and they panicked, towed the truck back and dropped the pan. Is seems as though the long period(s) between oil changes let a lot of sludge build up in the engine and the fresh clean oil with all the detergents cleaned some clumps loose which got sucked up by the oil pump pick up tube, plugged up the screen and starved the engine for oil. Poof. I guess you could say it was because of CHANGING his oil if you wanted to be literal.

I live in West Virginia and there's a Toyota plant in Buffalo. Yes there's a Buffalo, West Virginia. The people in my state owe Toyota for giving an alternative to working in the Coal Mines. Most of the trucks I see here are either Toyota or Ford in various models. As an American, I'm against Ford doing it. But as a person, I can understand them teaming up. Toyota has the best Hybrid engines in the business and Ford can come up with a sturdy rear-wheel transmission. I hate to say it as a Ford lover, but the team up will benefit them better than most of you think.

Just watch the jobs move over seas again . Havent read where this venture is going to create more jobs here in the USA . These trade deals since NAFTA have given every corporation and company a free pass to move off shore and our country looses tax revenue and then they want to cut the social safety net we , our parents ,aunts and uncle and grandparents have paid into . FORD has enough factories , workers and unemployed people right here to continue building the best trucks in the world without going into a joint business venture with toyota . :-X19 :-X19 :-X19 :-X19 :-X19 :-X19 :-X19 :-X19 :-X19 :-X19 :-X19