5.4L 3V spark plug change question
 

Hey Guys,

I'm about to change the plugs in the 04 FX4 (before they corrode into the heads :rolleyes:) but I'm seeing discreapncies in the torque spec for the plug threads.

One source, a Ford TSB on this site, states 25ft-lbs. Another "article" on this site (by "Dave West") states 13ft-lbs.

So, which is correct?

Thanks,
CMOS

If the TSB is the one that covers how to remove broken plugs, etc, then I would follow that one.

25ft-lbs is correct for 5.4l 3v Do your self a favor and follow the TSB but turn them only 1/8 of a turn and let the penetrating oil sit at least 30 min. before taking the plugs out.

Do yourself another favor and take it to the dealer and let them do it, if they break it they fix it!!!!!!!!

Not if the truck is out of warranty.

My truck is still under warranty and no, FORD will not cover it. Since the truck is non-syptomatic - no remarkable problems, I will have to pay for the spark plug change to a tune of $450.

I spoke to my Service Advisor who has always been very helpful to me and he says it will not be covered under warranty since there is no problem as of now.

At $450 bucks I'll do it myself and feel better that it will be done right. I just hit 30Kmiles on my truck so I think I'll be able to get the plugs out by following the TSB precedure.

Need to get a torque wrench and the plugs so I can work on it this weekend. Any other recommendations?

CMOS

You mean if you take your ford to a ford dealer and they break something they will not be liable to fix it??? I think not if so ford deserves to go broke!!!!!!!

Get 1 case of beer and plan to spend most of the day, don't take on any honey doos!!

A better idea is to get the case of beer, relax by the pool, and forget the plug change at 30K. I have seen 100k plugs in many 5.4 motors with no problems. I would leave them alone.

If your going to keep it longer then 100,000 mi change them now to save yourself the problem's down the road. If not let some one worry about it. I changed mine at 47,000
and even after all the prep penatrating oil, motor warm, small twists back and forth and 35 years of working on cars and trucks I still broke 1 plug.
Even after all that I would still do it my self. If Ford breaks one and can't get it out with the extactor they will still charge you for pulling the head.

No, I mean they won't change the plugs for free under warranty. I'm assuming if they break a plug they'd pay for it but again, at $450 bucks, I'll take the risk and change them myself.

Here's another example of how an American auto manufacturer KNOWS a problem exhists and isn't doing s**t about it.

CMOS

How did you extract the one broken plug?


CMOS

I am with you on this one,good luck let me know how it went and how bad did they look???PS: Don't forget the beer!!!

I welded a easyout to the end of a 6 in extenion and lightly tapped it in to set it, and twisted and with light upword pressure pulled it out. I first went to the dealer and talked to a tec and showed him what had happend. He told me that Ford had a extraction tool but he did'nt have one to show me. I should bring it in so I would not screw it up they had a 50% success rate of getting it out without removing pulling the head. So I thought at that rate I'll screw it up my self before I let someone else do it. The tec told me that he will sell his truck before he has to change his plugs.

Great....I can't believe it...but I'm scared to death to change friggin spark plugs!!!

If a plug breaks, what happens to the debris (pieces or thread, etc...) that falls into the head? Does this grind around inside the head and cause further damage??

My '04 has 70k, and I'm keeping-it (great truck so far). No my decision is whether to wait until 100K??

Is $450 the right amount from most dealters?

I did an internet order for the plugs (at $7.99 each) so I won't get them until next week. Looks like I'll be doing this next weekend.

I'll keep y'all posted.

CMOS

CMOS, just curious as to how many miles you have on your truck. I think I am in the same boat as you... 35K+ miles. I have to make a decision soon. I was quoted a price of $199, so I think I am leaning toward letting the dealership change them. If I do have them changed, I will ask for the old plugs back just to make sure they changed all of them. Let us know how it goes and post up some pics of the old plugs.

when did a 1 hr job that cost $20 in parts become a $450 event. I can't believe that a dealership would charge that much. I'd say do it yourself, take alot of time and don't drink until your done.

oh and put lots of antisieze on the new set.

at least if you break the plug, you can only blame yourself. if they break it, you're still paying for it.

anyone got the TSB for this on hand? Does this only affect the 04/05's? or all of the 3 valve 5.4s?

The plugs are $7 - $15 apiece. If you can do a plug chnge on a new 3V 5.4L in less than an hour, you are doing pretty well. I agree, $450 is much too expensive.

I have 31K miles.

If my dealer had told me $199 I would have said "Have at it!". But, like Tylus said, I will feel better about doing the job right by doing it myself than if I let some Stealership monkey do it.

CMOS

So your saying if you let the Ford dealer change your plugs....and they break one off in the head and therefore have to remove the head....Ford is then going to charge you to remove the head and fix the issue they caused?
Doesn't sound right to me. Ford should fix any issues (free of charge) minus the cost of a normal 5.4L 3v spark plug change.
I will be doing the spark plug change myself. It would worry me that they will break a plug, and then not get all the debris out of the cylinder....therefore ensuring I have issues with the cylinder later down the road.

Any Ford techs out there?? How many professionally done 5.4L 3V spark plug changes result in a spark plug breaking off in the cylinder head? Is this as bad an issue as people make it sound?

I talked to a mechanic at my dealer, not the Service Wirter, the mechanic. He told me in front of the Service Writer that he has had "several" break in the heads. The service writer's jaw dropped as he said, "I've never heard of that!" Go figure.

It is a problem. Suggest you pull the plugs every 30K at the most.

CMOS

sorry, was referencing my older Fords which were cheaper than dirt to fix and really did only take an hour to do a tune up. The only Ford that has ever taken me a long time was a 95 Mustang with a 351 in it. Very annooying vehicle. Make doing a plug change on the Taurus look like a cakewalk.

I haven't done any work on the 4.6/5.4. I had no idea that the prices had increased so much.

I still think it's crap that they want $450 for a job that only costs $120 (8*$15) in parts. Sounds like a little padding in the pocket.

Thats anywhere from $80-110 an hour labor. Is it really that hard to do for a "competant" service tech in a fully outfitted garage?

Mine, I would say, more pulled a part than break. The new plug has a long tube that the electrobe fits through. The one I broke only the tube part stayed in the head the rest of the plug came out clean porcelain and all one piece. The tube below the threads seem to have a weak spot where they were pressed together.

Breaking plug 5,7,or 8 is not at all uncommon. Yes, the debris do drop down into the combustion chamber sometimes. If you are really lucky the ceramic debris are tiny and will grind to powder before doing any serious damage to the piston or valve(s). Metallic debris will melt. I have seen bent exhaust valves and pitted pistons as a result of this.

I was lucky.
I'd rather be lucky then good any time.

__________________________________________________ _________________

Tylus .. I just bought a new '07 SD w/5.4 & this spark plug thing has me concerned. I was thinking about removing the plugs & "Anti-Seizing" them & now I see that you recommend doing just that. I have 3 different types of anti-seize .... (crappy aluminum particle) .... (super Hi-Temp Caterpillar copper particle [1800º]) ... (pure nickle particle [2400º]) and I'm wondering which would be best for this aluminum head/steel plug interface ??? Maybe one of the younger college fellows here on the site can look further into this & let us know just which type of anti-seize would be best for this application ??? An added thought .... what are the unforeseen ramifications of each type as to "O2 sensors & such ???
Come on you chemist guys ... kick this up a notch for us so we'll know which one is the best we can do for our engines !

Thanks !
~Glenn 07 FX4 SD SC SB 5.4 6sp 4.10 ls

BTW, I just ordered a spark plug socket specifically for the 5.4 3V engine. It's a 9/16th with the rubber insert - from www.skhandtool.com

Part number 4419. Only $11 bucks.


CMOS

I think that the 06 and up now has antisieze on them. hopefully someone has the TSB that covers this problem and can put the info up on what years are affected.

The TSB covers 04-05 F150, 05 Super duty, Expedition, Navigator with 5.4L 3V engines.
The procedure is: warm the engine up till it's warm to the touch, remove the COP's, blow out the hole and surounding valve cover area to remove dirt, break the plugs loose 1/8th of a turn, spray penetrating oil (prefirably Kroil brand) to fill the well to the top of the jamb nut of the spark plug, let sit for 5-10 minutes (my experiance is longer is better) Then turn the spark plug out.
If you do break a spark plug off and just the ground shield is left the Ford tool for this is 100% in removing it.

What does the ford mystery tool look like ?

Jim3,

Go HERE to see the whole TSB that also shows the tool.

CMOS

I was also hoping to avoid problems down the road so I just finished re-installing my plugs today on my 2005 SC with 25k miles. Longer is better with the soak time of the penetrating oil, I waited a min of 30 mins (didn't break any plugs), applied a film of nickel anti-sieze, and torqued to 25 ft-lbs. I plan to remove again at 50k miles and I'll see if the anti-sieze makes a difference. This is a job requiring patience...

Jeff: How bad did your plugs look as to the carbon build up issue, that is usually the reason they won't comeout???

Jeff,

Did you move the PCM case to do the 2 rear plugs on the passenger side?

I talked to a couple guys that moved the PCM, not disconnect - just moved aside, and they said those 2 plugs were an easy straight shot.

CMOS

The plugs didn't look too bad. But it looks like it doesn't take much to bind them...it's a tight fit, that's why I'll be looking at them again in about 25k more miles. I didn't think of it but I should have taken a picture.

I did remove the box and it's mounting bracket to get the 2 rear plugs on the passenger side...with it out of the way the passenger side is easy.

I can't believe Ford has another issue with spark plugs...I read that MY2006 and MY2007 have anti-sieze applied at the factory to solve this issue, anyone know if this is true?

Do you mean anti-sieze on the threads or the extension sleeve?

CMOS

I would think on the extension sleeve...

Question: How many of you actually used a torque wrench when you replaced the plugs versus just tightening then by feel?


CMOS