Overheating towing in high altitudes
 

So I have a 2011 F150 ecoboost that the sales guys talked me into when I wanted a F250 for towing a 7-8K toyhauler. Living in Boise when I tow at higher elevation and high temps the engine is overheating. This has been going on for the past year with no fix from Ford. I finally took pictures of the overheating so they would believe me and still Ford has no fix. So be careful when you read that the ecoboost will tow 11500 lbs. Does anyone else have any issues towing the the ecoboost?

That's really strange the sales guy talked you into a lower model truck?

I went into trade my 2004 F250 diesel in on a new model (not brand new)and the sales guy directed me to the f150 ecoboost since I was going to tow a camper that was between 7-8K. He hit me with great gas milage in town and all the torque. Which don't get wrong I love the truck in town and towing my snowmobile trailer but hate that I have to slow down to 30-40MPH climbing hills. Im guessing he was trying to help. Now I have to worry every time I pull my camper if this time the engine will blow and fords answer is just keep using it and hopefully we will have a fix soon.

Hi fergie, welcome to FTE!

I split your post off into its own thread in the Ecoboost forum, this is the best place to discuss your issue.

Mine got pretty warm last weekend, but the hill was only about a mile long, so I can see that cooling could be a problem at high altitudes.

My truck overheats every time I tow my camper up a grade with high temps. Im worried about what its been doing the engine. I love the truck but I'm really frustrated.

How do you define over heating? Was the temperature gauge going into the red and the engine going into fail safe mode? Or did it just get warm and reduce power?

Well the first time it happened (a year ago) the truck went into the red then to fail safe mode. Since then I have to reduce the speed of my truck(30 mph) so it wont go into the red. When I talk to Ford service they tell me they dont have a fix but keep driving it and thats what makes nervous. If it blows then Ford OK with that per the service guy. If they dont have a fix soon so I can tow my camper at more than 30 mph I'm going to call my local TV station for a little help with what my next step should be. Its really frustrating that I spent 40K on a truck and it doesnt perform.

Can you explain more about the grades you pull and altitude?

I've only overheated a vehicle once in recent memory, and that was my '07 Kenworth pulling up to the Eisenhower tunnel over 79,000 lbs. The cooling system was working just fine, and in every other situation the cooling fan was always capable of bringing the temps back down. This particular time the fan stayed on and the temps just kept climbing. I attributed it to the thin air...after that day I put another 30,000 miles on the truck without incident. The cooling system was working just fine, but the thin air and heavy load was just too much for it.

I suspect you might be having a similar issue. You have an engine belting out more heat than virtually any other gas engine in a pickup truck, and you're doing it without benefit of the larger cooling package you see in 3/4 ton trucks. In our Ohio Meet last week my truck was faster up the hill than any of the Super Duties. But my temps were by far the hottest; I was up to 239° coolant temp!

I'm sure you're probably good, but I always suggest that, if you're having problems with overheating, you check the trailers braking system, brakes themselves, and trailer bearings. You might even want to switch to a synthetic bearing grease if you haven't already.

Anything you can do to make sure the trailer is rolling as easy as possible can help keep temps down. You would be amazed how often people have 'truck problems' that turn out to actually be a trailer issue.

On a side note, with that heavy of trailer you're using a weight distributing hitch, right? On the half tons you need one if you're towing a trailer over 5000lbs. The dealers love to tell people an F150 will pull a heavy trailer just fine, but often neglect to mention the difference in tow ratings for a weight carrying vs. weight distributing hitch.

That's not a half-ton thing, but rather a safe towing thing. My '11 F350 required a WD hitch over 5,000 lbs; models with a 2.5" receiver require one over 6,000 lbs, and DRW trucks require one over 8,500 lbs.

So the grade is about 5-6% for 3 miles totaling almost 4000 feet of elevation. The truck works awesome when I'm towing at a lower elevation and cooler temps. My problem is that all over the TV and internet this truck is supposed to be the new best thing in towing. I spent alot of money and I wont pull 7000lbs. Per the Ford service rep this has been happening to many of the Ecoboost 150's but they dont have a fix for it. And Im told to keep driving it the way I am and hopefully Fords engineers with have a fix for the problem soon. Too me this just isnt good enough. I have a camping trip planned for the middle of July for 10 day in a remote area that requires me to drive at a steeper grade when its going to be hot out. This makes me really nervious becasue I will have my wife and two kids with no cell service. Im not a mechanic and dont have a lot of experience with engines and towing so im trying to get some advice as to what to do with my truck.


And for my trailer the bearings were repacked last year and the brakes checked when it was winterized. I have a heavy duty hitch with stabilzer and sway bar set up. Ive also had a airbag system installed for towing.

I really appreciate all the help.
thanks

Tell us more about your truck. Do you have the max tow pkg?? If not do you at least have 3.73 gears?? I'm towing the same weight as you and haven't had any issues(knock on wood). If you have the max tow pkg which comes with the bigger radiator then something is definitely not right. I wish you the best of luck.

Kevin

I don't know Kevin, my experience has shown that the cooling package on a Max Tow truck isn't capable of keeping the engine cool under extended full-throttle applications in hot weather. The higher the altitude the harder it is for the cooling system to maintain temperature.

I've towed 12,000 lbs in ~80° weather before without incident. But it wasn't pulling a 5-6% grade at altitude either. :confused:

I really think the OP needs a diesel Super Duty if he wants to pull those grades with that much weight behind him without slowing down. I think the PCM is smart enough to avoid engine damage though, so I wouldn't worry about blowing it up.

To the OP,

Have you monitored your transmission temps as well?

Which brand and weight of engine oil are you using? I would switch to a full synthetic 5w-30 oil and continue to use the MC filter. Bring enough of each for another complete change.

I think we need more information on your truck. Does it have the max tow package? If not, what's the gear ratios? Are the electric fans operating properly?

It does have the tow package, I have the oil changed at the dealership and I'll have to check what gearing it has.
My biggest complaint is the dealership and ford not standing behind the truck. Im not mechanic but did a little research on the ecoboost before I bought it to see if it really towed what the dealership claims. Now that Ive owned the truck for two years and its been overheating for one of the two. Its been to the dealer multiple times for the overheating without a fix.
Ford cant figure out why its overheating so the customer service person at Ford offered me an extended warranty and that he's sorry but they dont have a cure for the overheating (thats been happening with other ecoboosts for the past year). So now I have a 40K truck that I dont feel comfortable selling to someone because its been overheating. Or I would be out buying a diesel.

My truck has a towing package but not Max Tow. It does make a big difference.

Wondering if he might have 3.31 gears?? You hookup that much weight with those hills and high elevations with a 3.31 rear gear i can see it overheating...

If you have just the regular tow pkg and not the max tow than you might not have 3.73 gears along with the larger radiator and you might be trying to tow that heavy trailer up those steep grades with 3.31 gears for all you know.. You need to look on your window sticker and see what you have for gears.

While I see what you're thinking about, gearing has absolutely nothing to do with this. Here's why:

Engine heat output is directly related to horsepower. (Torque x RPM)/5252 = HP. It takes a certain amount of horsepower to maintain speed up a grade; the heavier the trailer, the faster the speed, or the steeper the grade the more horsepower it takes. Lower gear ratios would put his engine RPMs at a lower spot in a given gear at a given speed, which would mean it could make less power output in that given gear as a result.

At no point in time would the engine actually work "harder", because the lower RPMs would mean the engine was making less power in a given gear. Of course this is only meaningful if you can't shift gears, but these 6R80s are fantastic at putting the engine right where it needs to be, so if not enough power could be made the transmission would simply downshift so the needed amount of power could be made.

Problem fixed I bought a Dodge 2500 diesel. I really loved the F150 but its been a year of overheating and all that Ford would do is say sorry they dont have a fix for the overheating. As not mechanical person it really shouldn't matter what gears or heavy tow package is on the truck if the sticker says it tows 11,300 lbs. I beloved what the sales person said my bad. Wont do that again.
thanks again for all the advise.
OP

Congrats on the new truck! It's a shame your F150 couldn't do what you expected of it, but I think the larger cooling package of a 3/4 ton truck will do the job just fine. Can you post some pics of the new truck?

You must be basing this on a naturally aspirated engine not a little V6 with forced induction. These little twin turbo V6's are already making a TON of heat as it is being a gasoline engine. If he was lugging up those steep grades at a lower rpm towing 8000lbs without the larger radiator i would certainly say even if it wasn't working harder it was definitely making much more heat with those turbos at max boost. If the rear end gear doesn't matter than why does the Max Tow pkg only come with 3.73 gears and 4.10 as a option??
There you go, Your next tow video should be the Eco with max tow and 3.73's against a truck with the regular tow pkg and 3.31's. I saw how hot your truck got at the top of that hill in the video. I'm willing to bet that the truck with 3.31 gears and smaller radiator will go into limp mode before the top of that hill. :)

Your truck didn't have a tow rating of 11,300lbs. The only trucks that have the 11,000lb+ tow rating is with the Max Tow Pkg which your truck did not have. Your salesman screwed you!! I wish you the best of luck with the new truck. Hard to beat a Cummins!

The radiator matters, but the gears have nothing to do with cooling. It would be cool to do a comparison video, I just need to find a willing participant and a suitable hill!

You find a big hill and I'll get Lance Armstrong to ride my old 10spd bike. My test run up the hill will be in 1st gear and yours will be in 7th gear. I'll bet Lance gets tired and overheated trying to climb that hill in 7th...
Just messing with you Tom! :)
I do enjoy all the hill climb vids so keep them coming!

Kevin

Just returned from a 4900 mile trip with a 2013 XLT Max Tow 2WB CC with the 6.5 Bed. We did not tow anything on this trip but I can see where some problems could come from. I too traded in an 04 PS Diesel that was just starting to blow turbo hoses when towing #9000.

I added a Edge Monitor to read what's happening with the engine /trans etc, and at ALL times the engine water temp was 195 to 204. I would reccomend one of these to anyone towing. I monitor volts, throttle position, turbo boost, engine water temp and intake temp. You can program it too but I leave it stock as I did my 04.

The intake temp runs 2 degrees over ambiant as shown on the radio screen. We drove in some 111 degree weather and the intake was 113. When we were idling for a time the intake temp went over 125 and I know the 3.5 definately did not like it, me either...when we could move fast it came down and all was good. I would never let this engine sit and idle like my diesel.


I see a problem with an engine meant to run at 200 degrees for effiency and fuel milage when put to the towing test. I'm smart enough to select another gear went pulling up a steep grade and would have no problem running near 4500 RPM in 3rd or 4th for a long pull. I love the manual select with the "paddle" selector and used it many times even unloaded.

Averaged 20.3 mpg on the whole trip, the worst was Hurricane Ut. to OC in So Cal mostly in 105+ heat only getting 18.7.......Satisfied so far. I hope I don't regret no ordering a 6.2................................

I think this engine will do better idling than you give it credit for. Granted intake temps will skyrocket, but your cooling fans should have no difficulty keeping the engine cool at idle. How hot did your coolant temps get during this time?

The benefit of electric cooling fans is that they can operate at maximum capacity with the engine running at an idle. Belt driven fans require elevated engine speed to do the same, and as such I think the F150s will have an easier time staying cool at low engine speeds.

The Ecoboost is very impressive to say the least when it comes to towing. With an engine that reaches max torque at 2500 rpms there is absolutely no reason to manually downshift and climb hills at 4500rpms .. If that's something you want to do than you would be better off with the 6.2L since it's max torque isn't reached until 4500rpms but i promise you will never see anything close to 20.3mpg!:D
I have owned mine for over 2yrs and 23,000mi with no regrets. I tow a 33' 7500-8000lb travel trailer and when towing i lockout 6th gear and just set the cruise between 60-65mph. She will climb 95% of the hills in 5th at 2100rpms maintaining the speed limit, very seldom on a real steep grade she might drop to 4th at 2600-2700rpms. I promise you will have no complaints towing with your truck!:-X22

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...pse21b31c9.jpg

Agreed, forcing higher RPMs than normal doesn't help anything at all; if anything you are creating more heat due to the increased friction of the faster moving internals.

Crazy...The engine temp never went over 204 ever. Until I selected intake temp to monitor after it stumbled/missed a lot after idling and I didnt know why. After selecting it I knew. The truck told me something was not quite right so now I'll just watch it. I'm sure it's built to take it but as a racer I know how important intake temp is especially with a blown engine.

Kev...Many times on the trip the engine rpm would be down at 15-1600 in 6th and pull right up under normal throttle to 2200 and be back running 75 mph without much notice. One time out in Nebraska on a 2 lane I dusted off a line of cars/trucks following a semi and looked down to see about a 100 with 25 on the boost. I backed out to normal speed and checked the Garmin top speed and it was 98.7. Quickest accelerating street vehicle I've ever had from 55 on up. No spool up time just stepped out and went....

One of the trucks in line was a Ford 6.4 diesel and he couldn't wait to have his chance to come back by me and it he felt good about I'm happy for him I guess. I told my wife that's how we looked blown' black smoke over the years when stepped out with 04.

Quick question....Is your tail pipe sooty? Mine's been since new even getting good mileage in town or on the road.....My other gas cars don't show anything, I know engines are tuned on the lean side with the computers but this is my first gas turbo on the street. . . . . . . .thanks

I believe that, but the engine isn't under boost at idle. I've had mine as hot as 239° before under wide open throttle with a trailer in tow, and the engine didn't miss a beat. Held 16 PSI of boost all the way to the top of the hill, and once I got there temps came down fast. The temperature gauge barely moved to the right of center. I'm confident that this is the reason the EB spec's 5w-30 oil rather than the thinner oil spec'd for just about every other Ford made.

He only did that because he was deleted and tuned; a stock 6.4L engine will never smoke unless something is wrong.

Mine is, but I think that's normal. :-huh

Tom you also forgot to mention that the trailer you were towingup that 18% grade was 15,000lbs!! :-jammin

My tailpipe is covered too, Everyone i have talked to say there's is the same..

The sooty tailpipe is a characteristic of direct injection. Direct Injection causes more soot to form because there is less time for the fuel and air to mix (compared to engines that use multi-port injection). Through injection timing they can keep it to a minimum, but it's simply the nature of how direct injection functions.

There is actually talk in the automotive engineering world about how future direct injected gasoline engines will meet tightening emissions and particulate standards. Eventually you may see a gasoline ecoboost with advanced EGR and a particulate filter, just like newer diesels.

Here's an article about it that goes a bit more in-depth:

http://www.swri.org/3pubs/ttoday/Sum...eEmissions.pdf

Edit......Here's a neat little chart from that article:

http://home.comcast.net/~paul810/particulates.jpg

If you notice, direct injected engines are typically worse than multiport engines or modern diesels when it comes to particulate matter, though not nearly as bad as older diesels.

Thanx for that info makes sense....so I can now look forward to a urea (cow urine) tank on my pickup just like the power plant where I work...

I have a 2013 Eco as well. Mine has the Max tow package. I also live in Boise and have the same problem on the same hill I am sure the first poster is talking about. This hill is a long 5-6% grade. So to climb it we run at full boost for about 6-8 miles. It is a good test of a tow vehicle. I tow over higher and steeper grades with no problem because they have windy roads that causes me to go much slower and to let of the throttle at times. Horseshoe bend hill is just a constant climb at 65.

My theory is that with the turbo's running at full boost and the fact that they are liquid cooled they are heating up the antifreeze that then heats the engine. I just don't think ford has enough cooling capacity to handle the heat created.

Mine does the same thing. Twin turbos + gas engine + F-150 cooling = massive heat buildup. No problem, I just slow down enough to keep it cool, reach the top and hammer down again!

Kevin, I to have experienced some overheating at elevation (8000-10,000') in Southern Utah. The first time I was just kinda noodling along not paying attention to the grades coming up and it got into the red zone, The next time I went through the same area I gave it the onions and it only slightly started to heat. I have the 3:31's I think but when towing in tow haul that shouldn't matter since those ratios are 'final' drive ratios as I understand it. I am pulling a 30' 5th Wheel at around 8000 lbs. and if I pay attention to my driving I am fine with it. (just a trick if it overheats, try turning the heater on for a minute). I know I'll get flamed for that one. Jack

Ok guys newbie here, but do you guys think it is a possibility that since the ecoboost is holding low rpms in most cases while towing that maybe the water pump isn't spinning fast enough to actually pump enough coolant to cool the engine and turbo's effectively? Maybe ^^^^ this is an example since the engine is at a higher rpm due to the trans downshifting the water pump can flow more coolant. Just thinking out loud :-X03

Slowing down and lowering engine RPMs resulted in an immediate drop in engine temperature in my situation.

I still think that the cooling system is inadequate for it's rated towing capacity.

You also lowered the load on the engine by slowing down so yes it would cool down, but under boost while say locked in 6th those turbos are still spinning and creating heat and the engine is making heat but by not being revved up enough to move enough coolant.

Only way to test the theory would be for the person having the issue to pull the hill while locked in 5th or 6th then make another pass say locked to 4th gear with lighter throttle and matched speed but the difference would be is that the engine is spooled up spinning the water pump faster.

Pardon my pestering lol Im not a mechanic by any means I just enjoy some problem solving.