5.4V8 DREADFUL SPARK PLUG ISSUE SOLVED !!
 

:-X22Hello, Ford folks, I have posted about this issue before, but I decided to share my recent experience on this issue with you guys.
I have been contemplating the replacement of my plugs ( 06 Expy EB ) since before It had reached 100K miles.
I bought the new redesigned Champion Double platinum 7989 Plugs.
My idea was to remove the plugs with the engine hot. Ford states it should be room temperature. But if they new better they would not caused this issue on the first place.
I followed the instructions from this guy on You tube ( watch video below )
Ford 5.4 Liter 3 Valve Spark Plug Removal - YouTube


Within 40 minutes I had all 8 of my plugs on my hands. None broke.
Plug number 8 ( Drivers side way on the back ) was already totally lose , I did not even had to use any wrench to remove it. It came out by hand.
Thus the cause of my ticking noise ( that I thought it could be lifters )
One hour Job, My truck was up and running like a champ.
Check it out.Below are my old plugs . 110.000 Miles.

http://images116.fotki.com/v715/phot.../photo1-vi.jpg


Passenger's side. I had to remove the ECM and the battery. No biggie.

http://images50.fotki.com/v1528/phot...7/photo-vi.jpg



Below are the new plugs I bought. These will not brake in the future. Watch the video below as well

Here is the video explaining this new plug design.

Champion 7989 - YouTube

http://images16.fotki.com/v383/photo...7/photo-vi.jpg




Below are some of the tools I used to get this job done...


http://images107.fotki.com/v780/phot...7/photo-vi.jpg



I Used the angle of my driveway to make the Expy a little lower, easier to get to the back plugs.


http://images55.fotki.com/v648/photo...7/photo-vi.jpg


Torquing the number 8 plug ( driver's side back plug )


http://images60.fotki.com/v361/photo...7/photo-vi.jpg


:-drinkThe beast now runs smooth , the ticking noise is gone.:-drink

glad you were successful. subscribing so i can watch that about 30 more times to get the nerve to place my impact wrench at the business end of an aluminum head casting. yikes.

You are right , before I pulled the trigger for the first time on the plug number 8 ( Yes I started on the hardest one ) I had goose bumps, the shakes, and all.
But it was well worthy.

Agreed. My buddy John just had his done at a local Ford dealership that doesn't even have a heated trans flush machine for the newer trucks. Waited til 160k against my ranting about the importance of doing them earlier. Damages?? they claimed 5 broke and nailed him for 600 even. for changing plugs. Ford should have never orphaned this issue (or the spitting plugs issues on the 2v). Thanks again for the write up, at almost 80k, I'm going to hit it soon. Reps sent.

I have a 1998 5.4 and when I did my plugs some 20k miles ago I use the platinum bosh plugs they did not resemble at all the plugs y'all showed on this thread did I get the wrong plugs?

Nope. Your motor is not a 3-valver.

Glad this worked well for you. Do you think the warmed up engine is the key to easy removal or the speed and power provided by the wrench? Also I've seen many recommend the motorcraft over the champion plugs. Why did you go with the champion? I need to do this this week and would be glad to learn from your experience. Thanks.

Plugs
 

Steel plugs in aluminum heads & their inherient issues have been around since the 70's- unless you are talking racing products from the 60's (which I'm not)

When I decided it was time to change the plugs (2006 Mark LT 4x2, 5.4, 35,000 miles) I used the Motorcraft SP 515’s. Although I knew about the carbon build-up/plug removal issue, I decided not to change the plugs until there was a replacement plug that I was comfortable with…meaning I knew it was a good quality plug in terms of component design and construction. Although I did following the most recent TSB, I also relied on my experience back in the 1970’s when aluminum heads & intake manifolds were just entering the street scene and never-seize did not exist. Here are the exceptions to the TSB that I did…
1. I ran Lucas fuel injection cleaner, mixed at 3 times their recommendation in 1 full tank of gasoline. Purpose…if I was lucky, it would dissolve or loosen any carbon buildup (although many do a real fuel injection cleaning also- and it is probably a best practice to do if you have more than 45-50,000 miles on the plugs)
2. Although I am a fan of PB Blaster, I used a product called ChemSearch “Yield”. The issue I have with using carb cleaner is the lack of lubrication…..in the old days of removing steel plugs from aluminum heads, we use to mix up acetone & ATF…or of we needed more lubrication, kerosene & ATF, “Yield” provides this lubrication- much better IMHO than even PB Blaster.
3. Yes, I put anti-seize on the plug threads (I know the TSB says not to)
4. Of course…a lot of patience, I really doubt if I ever put more than 20-25 lbs of force during removal (purposefully)
The end result, only one plug even “squeaked” coming out (but it basically unscrewed like a regular plug- literally). Plug #4 was initially a little stubborn, but after the second try, then waiting about 30 minutes, it came out with very little effort…just kept wiggling the plugs (tightening/loosening) by 1/8th or even less of a turn- and they all came out without a single one breaking or any issue really.
Actual working time: 2 hours…..including washing my hands, total time was 5 hours.
FYI- Why I choose Motorcraft.
In the 1970’s I ran (like many) Champion’s in just about everything (even had the gold palladiums), but stopped in the early 1980’s when they changed their copper-core design and the resulting quality problems that IMHO still exist today. Since then I have run Splitfire (non-platinum) in my old world (1960’s) cars, Bosch in my late 1990’s vehicles (both because the cylinder head design really prefers these types of plugs), but I really had hesitation because of the construction/component quality of the non-Motorcraft plugs and really questioned the durability in this application about the Motorcraft SP508 or SP 509’s which are single platinum. Given the types of loads and burn/flame promulgation rates in the chambers, I really had doubts about the style of the plug with single platinum having the ability to “survive” as long as they engineers said. What do ya know…the SP 515’s are double platinum.

Plugs
 

You are simply a blogger who is completely unfamiliar or choosing to ignore the MC SP 515's (the spec'd replacement) which are a 1 piece (welded), double platinum design....and have been out for about 1+ years now.

I wish you the best with the champions and I am glad you were in good shape regarding the removal.

BTW...the "Hot Engine' is not the "key"...a little thing called physics here....as an engine heats things expand not contract....so the tolerances actually reduce. The heat can soften the carbon but I doubt if you had much build-up in the 1st place (a good thing which is actually what causes the OEM 2-piece plugs to break).

There is also a technique presently taught in the MSE brieifings, crack the plug open 9unscrew) about 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn, fire the engine, let run for 1 minutes....this creates venting (leakage) ever so slight as to allow the flame in the cylinder to promogate up and burn off the carbon, agin reducing/eliminating the binding action that occurs breaking the oem 2-piece plug.

Plugs
 

From your first post, you seem to have the numbering wrong. #8 is on the drivers side rear while #4 is the furthest back on pass. side.

What you and your mechanic are missing is, approx 3 years ago the plugs that were spec'd for our engines changed, Motorcraft SP508 or SP 509’s, they were not of a 2-piece design which as a result of the carbon build-up creates stressors that exceed the construction of the 2-piece plugis- this is what was originally installed (and blame Federal-Mogul for the construction defect who actually built the OEM plugs for Ford).....these (the 508 & 509) are a 1-piece design (just like the champion), but single platinum.....the revised plug that came out about 1 year ago was the MC 515, a 1 piece double platinum plug (they will not break in the same conditions).

There is also a very old saying, "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it", I may be old, and I may not have changed 100 sets of plugs specific to the 2004-2006 5.4's (as I doubt your mechanic has as well), but none of this is new, looking back at history, remember the 1978 Chevy Monza (of course you don't- you likely were not even born yet) , it came with an optional V8....yeah, a 2000 lb car with a V8!!!!! The bad news, to remove the rear plugs, you had to pull the engine......absolutely.......true, and not considered a design defect by Chevy.........I remember a neghbor who had bought one, really wasn't a shadetree mechanic, and bought it without looking under the hood............IIRR, in 1978 he paid $600+ for a "Tune-up" and only the dealer would touch it because of the engine installation issue.....and mind you, this was back when spark plugs in high performance engines typically were changed out every 2000-4000 miles. (and yes, I have changed steel plugs in aluminum heads more than a few times)

So much for history class (grin)

A few questions for the OP:

What is the torque rating on your impact? It is adjustable?
Did you "burp" the gun at all during the removal or did you just hit them hard until they came out?
Did you need to use in u-joint and extensions for plugs 3, 4, and 8?
Did you do any engine/fuel treatments prior to the removal?
Did you use any penetrating fluid at all? They look dry.
The electrodes/gap look in surprisingly good shape considering the miles.
I have ordered the sp515's also and although they are supposed to be crimped on much better, it is my understanding they are still a two piece plug.
Did the truck run well right away or did the computer need time to adjust?

Spark Plugs removal
 

few questions for the OP:
What is the torque rating on your impact? It is adjustable?
*My airgun maximum rating is 1000 Lbs of torque, yes adjustable . I went down to 250 Lbs.

Did you "burp" the gun at all during the removal or did you just hit
them hard until they came out?
*Yes, I did crank it in burts , did not hold down the gun until the plugs came out.

Did you need to use in u-joint and extensions for plugs 3, 4, and 8?
*Yes, I did use an impact U joint as well as 3" and 6" extentions. I tried to keep the extentions as aligned as possible to the gun.
Look at the picture from my initial post . It shows by the gun the black extentions and U joint I used.


Did you do any engine/fuel treatments prior to the removal?
*Yes , I ran Techron concentrated fuel additive. But at the time the intention was to ensure my fuel system was clean, I gues It could have helped soften the plugs, after all they did not look as bad at all even after 110.000 miles. ( Make sure you get the concentrated version of the techron ) There are two types. Walmart sells it for about 8 bux or so.

Did you use any penetrating fluid at all? They look dry.
* No, I used nothing at all.

The electrodes/gap look in surprisingly good shape considering the miles.
* Agreed , I was surprised the plugs look good. But it was well worth replacing it, I am now relieved that my truck no longer has a plug that could potentially break upon removal.

I have ordered the sp515's also and although they are supposed to be crimped on much better, it is my understanding they are still a two piece plug.
Did the truck run well right away or did the computer need time to adjust?
*Truck ran just fine when I cranked, no need for any adjustment, reset.

Oh, one other item................

ChemSearch “Yield”, is a product that most "Typical Automotive repair mechanics" would not be familiar with, although it is readily available. It is a product specifically designed for use (originally) for the aircraft industry....which uses a considerable amount of aluminum and in older models- magnesium. It is on the "Suggested" user list of both Boeing/Airbus & GE/RollsRoyce (who build the jet engines) for use on difficult srew/bolt removal potentially caused by steel/aluminum contact.

and if you look up the MSDS for what comprises it (available online), you will be surprised, yeah, us old guys of 40 years ago (not 30) dealt with things that many have forgotten......and now the "industry" is now selling as new "Tools & Techniques".:-X06


oh, the MC 515's are welded.

Hi Guys,

I have the 2005 6.8 V10, same issue as the 5.4 and today I am doing a plug and COP change. I have ran 3 tanks of gas worth with Seafoam injector cleaner, I have Kano Kroil creep for the penetrating lube, New MC Cops and the MC SP-515's, the nickel anti-seize and yes I have the the plug extractor tool if I break one. I even have a 3/8 impact if I can stir up enough guts to use it... I have seen the impact video before and thank the OP for creating this post. That was his 2nd video, the first one was before that one when he was developing the process.

The one thing I cannot seem yet to find is the plug torque when putting the new plugs back in.

My 2005 vintage Ford shop manual says 25 ft lb dry torque. That sounds high as it is around the 28 to 30 ft lb that rips the plug apart on removal. And yes I know the install is different than removal.

Yes, I do agree on the anti-sieze on the plug threads but applying lube will change the application torque down some 20 to 25% to be the same pre-load on the threads as dry. Which is then about 18 ft lb lubed.

What application torque on the plugs did you use and was it dry or lubed?

Thanks in advance.

John

Plugs
 

I am not sure about the V10 , below is the torque specs for the expedition 2006.
Indeed it is 25lbs of torque....

http://images53.fotki.com/v665/photo...pyplugs-vi.jpg

Thanks Mig25,

This does help. My 2005 Ford shop manual page 303-07A-1 copy righted 2004 states the same torques for the 5.4 and the 6.8 as they use both in the Super Duty's. Both for the plugs and the COP's

The guys at Blownoutsparkplug.com state this

FAQ on torque no 51 and 52

They also are using MotorCraft plugs and say they are nickel plated and do them dry at 28 ft lb.

25 ft lb by Ford and 28 ft lb by Blownout plug are close to the same.

There is the 13 ft lb torque out there but the years of the engine and methods of thinking have changed. I'm just trying to confirm if I can that on this 2005 3 valve modular the 25 ft lb dry is the latest thinking on MotorCraft plugs.

Right now I have all the COP's out and broke loose all 10 plugs. I put the table spoon of Kroil down in the plug well to let it soak and I came in for lunch. Man, are they in there tight and I only moved it a 1/8 of a turn.

On this 6.8 V10 plug 8 and 10 are going to be a treat.... I just may do the impact after the soak over lunch as the thoughts of pulling the ratchet on an angle is pretty high on those 2 cylinders. I hope I can even get the impact in there. It is a small 3/8 one but the room is limited.

Thanks for the pic post. It is truly appreciated.

John

I torqued my 2005 plugs with anti seize to 17 lbs. was that too loose? That is what I had read to do. Is it 17 with anti seize and 25 without?

Traditional fasteners require 20 to 25% less torque to gain the same preload on the thread verses dry.

If 25 ft lb is the desired goal dry, then 25% is 18.75 ft lb. Not all our torque wrenches are calibraterd to traceable standards so there is error in the average torque wrench from mechanic to mechanic.

Your 17 ft lb lubed is for all practical 25% less then 25 ft lb. 1 or 2 ft lb is not going to make or break the bank.

Hope this helps

John

Just reporting back. I did not have such a good day today. The score is 7 to 3 and I'm not winning....

To not hijack this post, see my saga here.
2005 3 valve 6.8 Plug Change - Cracked Insulators Thanks

John

Great photos and tips. Thanks

Hey guys yesterday my 2001 Navi started missing badly i knew it was time to do a tune up on it but i guess i put it off for too long. Bad choice. I got the 5.4L 32V V8 in it. Will the impact method you used still work on the 4-valver?? I noticed most of you are talking about the 3-valvers only.

Sorry if this is a stupid question i just graduated tech school im only 19 so yess im a rookie. :)

This issue affects only the 5.4 3 valve engines.

At least you were smart enough to ask instead of thinking you knew the answer. I'd say that's a good start to a post-graduation career. :-X22

Welcome to the FTE.:-jammin
Try starting a new thread with your question. Your problem is not uncommon and you will get help.

Ok!! so it appears you'd be the guy I need to talk to! So I was told my 2005 Expy EB was "mis-fireing" (probably did NOT spell that right, LOL) and that I needed a tune up. K, not a problem.. until they told me it would be $700!! So! NOW my engine is "skipping" or as they called it mis-fireing (WHICH BTW THEY TOLD ME THAT IT WOULDN'T HARM ANYTHING.. JUST KEEP DRIVING AS USUAL! Problem is its driving me batty!!!!! I cant stand having to let off the gas at 70 mph cause the way the truck starts chugging!!) and once it gets up around 2000 RPMs it almost sounds like it goes out of gear.. the RPMs go up, but it doesn't feel like its going any faster!! So now they said if I can find someone to put the plugs in for me, they should only be $7 -$8 a piece... problem is... I dont know anyone that could do everything you just showed you did!!! soooo.. gonna try and do it myself, lol , or have my brother help me! Any feedback would be great!!! thanks!!

You should do the coils too while you are there, they have to come out anyway to get to the plugs.

Ok, did plugs over Thanksgiving (the wife was thrilled). Did the hours of soaking with PB Blaster after cracking the plugs a quarter turn and all, but it was to no avail. All eight plugs broke, and the porcelain at the tip broke and fell into the cylinders. I did have the broken plug removal tool made by the Lisle company on hand, and boy did it get a workout. Thought I was going to have to take it in and have the heads pulled, (and time may tell that I should have). However, I Google searched and found a video of a guy who retrieved porcelain chunks as well as the whole electrode from a cylinder using a borescope with a piece of tape on it. Awesome, but I don't have a borescope.

After a night of restless sleep and nightmares about evil clowns chasing me riding rainbow colored hippos that farted clouds of glitter and handing me repair bills at the Ford dealership, I decided to try to vacuum the porcelain fragments out. I used my shop vac with the crevice tool, a piece of 1/4 inch clear flexible tubing and duct tape.

Now, there's no way to be sure I got it all with the tools i had available, but I could compare the amount of debris in each cylinder with the amount missing from the broken tip (I cleaned the shop vac out after each cylinder) and I don't think I missed much.

No scary noises when I started it up and it seems to be running as smooth as ever, so I'm calling it a success. Not a pretty win, but a win. Hope it's a long time before I have to do that again.

Nice work Macgyver! I plan on doing mine next month ill keep the vac close.

That is a totally unnerving feeling, and I fully sympathize. :(

Porcelain worries...
 

Just been thinking about the vacuum solution to porcelain fragments breaking off and falling into the cylinders when using the broken plug removal tool. Still no sign of trouble yet (it's been a couple of days now), but does anyone have any idea how long it would take to know if anything big enough to cause problems was in there? Would it be a start up and an "Oh CRAP!", or might one be driving along weeks later thinking all was well and get a nasty surprise?

Any ideas?

It is unlikely you will have any problems if it is just porcelain. If there were metal pieces I'd be more worried about it. Porcelain is basically glass against metal. Guess which one will be pulverized first?! ;)

That's kinda how I was looking at it, but it's good to hear a like-minded opinion. It's the main mode of transportation for the family, so lots riding on it. Thanks for the input!

Alloro has it right. If there was going to be a problem I think it would have happened by now.
There is very little better than a somewhat scary job done right the first time you have to do it. :-drink

I purchased the removal tool and all and I could not get the balls to do it! I paid $700 to the STEALER to remove the plugs!

Without even trying to do it yourself first?