Greetings all. First post on this forum. I've owned numerous Powerstroke's over the years and just bought the 2010 King Ranch 6.4L. I have been considering adding a tuner for a couple weeks and through all of my research, I think I've narrowed it down to the Spartan with DPF delete or the Banks Six Gun w/IQ. I know there are several posts regarding this, but no one really discusses warranty issues in detail. Banks claims theirs is undetectable because it's plug and play and doesn't re-program the OEM computer and operates with-in Ford's parameters. Spartan is claiming that Ford can still detect other tuners (Banks) based on certain trouble codes and programming, and that theirs is not detectable because of their proprietary coding and their ability to return the truck back to stock when removed. Any factual evidence regarding either of these claims?

BTW, The first company that will put that in writing for me and guarantee that their tuner's are undetectable when removed, and are wiling to cover repair costs should their tuner be detected, I will right a check right now.

 

A previous post of mine explains it well. IRONY.........When we became mechanics, the training led us not only to repair your vehicles, but to look for the root cause. When components fail, they leave a tell-tale "sign" as to how they failed. Heat failures look a certain way. Over-revving failures break a certain way. Poor maintenance failures look a certain way. Thats just part of being a quality mechanic (we're called techs now!). For the "just return it to stock, they'll never see it" mentality to work, you have to find someone thats not smart enough to "read" parts, then trust him to do major repairs. I dont care who you are, thats funny!

 

If you want a programmer of some kind, get it know that if whatever failure is caused by the tuner you will pay. As long as you are willing to pay then get it.

I have the banks 6-gun/IQ exactly why you stated above. I only run on level two which is just above stock.

I only tow in stock mode though. There is a reason for that.

 

IMHO, companies that make claims that their software programmer product is "undetectable" is,

- naive to the point of stupid

- willfully misrepresenting the facts.

No one --- I repeat --- No One --- have access to the source code that Ford uses in their modules except for Ford's technical team.

Even those people --- cannot have access to more than a small slice at any time, unless they are very senior with a very high need to know.

Whats more, at any time, Ford can modify / update / change the software installed in your car, at present, each time it is plugged into the dealer's computer (which is networked to Ford).

GM can in fact, modify its code to a limited extent via OnStar!


Therefore, it is flatly impossible to have anyone claim that their "mod" is "undetectable".

There is no such thing.

Period.

It boils down to whether Ford wants to detect it, and whether programmers have built in "hooks" to catch and store tunes.

Being in the business... I know where I would place my bet.

 

Thanks for the quick responses. I'm not looking to race my truck or even tow anything. I bought my truck strictly for the eye appeal. I'm just looking add a little more HP and hopefully get an increase in MPG. I'm thinking my safest option is the Banks since it will also be easier to remove and return to stock before any maintenance or repairs are made.

 

I would say the likelihood of an MPG increase from a tuner is.. very low.

And the gain, if any, will be tiny while performance will likely be seriously compromised.

Manufacturers are under great pressure to deliver high MPG, and a gain of even 1% is a big deal --- do you think a tuner can do much better?

It doesn't matter if you "remove" it.

That is cosmetic. Accept the fact that Ford HQ, if not the dealer, will know.

Whether they will use it against you (to deny a claim) only they know.

If you do such mods, you are on your own....

Likewise for EPA... unless the tunes are EPA / CARB certified.

 

FYI, every modern western fighter craft has special codes built into it so that the craft can be "disabled" remotely.

The French explicitly acknowledge this fact.

Look it up --- it is called the "gold key".

Be reasonably assured that there is stuff in the code of every Ford that you will never know.. and can never know.

 

Best advice I can give no matter what you do is to ensure that you have a few miles on the motor. Get it broke in before you do anything. If you are going to have a problem it should show up fairly quickly.

Then if you still want to try something, again be comfortable with your choice. I am.

Now I have taken mine in with the banks on it and once with it removed. But was not engine related repairs. I had no problems.

I had an ABS light come on last year, so know they would access the PCM I took the Banks off. I had no issues.

Just recently had my coolant flushed and left it on. I had no issues but again, nothing engine related.

I get maybe about 1-2 mpg gain driving easy. Better shifting and turbo response.

But towing I always tow in stock form.

Also, If you go banks then order directly from them as that will give you the best support.

 

The fact that people are not generally having trouble when they "take off" the tuner before they go in for repairs is the result of a policy decision by Ford.

Not because Ford cannot figure out what they are doing.

I am sure they know, and elect to not exercise their legal right to automatically void the warranty.

 

Why wouldn't they void it automatically? It'd save them money and from what I understand, Ford would do almost anything to free themselves of the 6.4L issues.

 

In order to void the warranty, there have to be a connection between the mod and the failed part.

When it is a tuner, that is not hard to tie to most failures that is drive train related.

IMHO, it is flatly not true that Ford is not living up to their side of the warranty.

In fact, Ford have done far more, fixed many cases where such a determination can readily be made.

I got a glimpse of the bills relating to the 6.0 disaster --- and there is not a doubt in my mind that Ford went beyond their legal obligations to their customers.


Ford did this for marketing reasons --- just as they may elect to eat some dubious warranty claims for the sake of customer satisfaction. Even when they have the evidence on what happened cold.



The bottom line --- you are rolling the dice when you mod.

If there is no problem, great.

Don't expect your tuner firm / Ford to have to come in and fix your mess if it created one.

I take this view because I have a largely stock 6.0 --- and it is largely trouble free once the bugs were worked out when I bought it at 250,000 miles.

 

Everything you guys have said, makes sense. Thanks for all the input.

 

There's something else here that I'd like to mention. I like to know my stuff. I try to own few things but to have them be very useful and to know them like the back of my hand. When I bought my 2010 F-350 and tuned it with the Spartan, I acknowledged (to myself) that this was my truck now, not Ford's. I change the oil, I change the head gaskets if they blow, but its mine now. I've found this is one heck of a good way to look at the tuning question.

 

If you think Ford has an issue with the 6.4 why did you buy one? Ford is still #1 in my book. They have stood behind me when they did not have to! Sorry but if a tuner would not hurt your truck Ford would love to sell you a tuner. To some up!

FORD Sells Great Trucks
Great Trucks do not need Tuners
If Tuners were good for Trucks, Tuners would sell Extended Warrantys.

 

FORD has always been number one in my book. I've had several other diesels from the Detroit Diesel to Cummins and even Duramax. I love the powerstroke. My thoughts were that I'd rather buy an engine that has a few years under it's belt (6.4L) over buying a brand new model that hasn't had hundreds or even thousands built and real world tested (6.7L).

I'm can only partially agree with you in that sense. If it wasn't for the emissions standards then ford would have done a few things differently. ie, NO DPF!! Which most likely would have made it a better truck, therefore a tuner can make a good truck, GREAT. Just my $.02.