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Old 09-30-2010, 08:53 PM
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Biodiesel, injectors and oil filters Rumors

I have heard a few rumors and I would like to know if there is any truth to them.
I have a 6.0L psd and have run B99 for the last 2 yrs with brief breaks for winter (FL) without any problems from the biodiesel.

1. I have heard that it can be hard on the 6.0L diesel injectors. I have been caught a few times with a gelled tank (unexpected cold morning with B99). I now keep a jar of b99 next to the truck. The truck definitely does not run as smooth or seem to have as much power until warm with B99 compared to dinodiesel or even b50. Once the engine is warm there is no difference. This is true even at 90+F outside.

2. I have heard B99 can dissolve the glue that holds the motorcraft oil filter together. I have done several oil changes (every 5000mi) in the last 2 yrs and I have not noticed any problems with either oil or fuel filter breakdown.

Disclosures: I buy retail b99 that is usually palm oil derived (it gels at 60F). I have a Banks Big Hoss set-up with the PDA tuner set on 6.
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:15 PM
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i'd do some blending with #2 when it gets cool. you don't want thick fuel. the poor fuel spray pattern may cause fuel dilution in the motor oil.
the b99 has much more lubricity than the current #2.
if you do the research, b99 has a very narrow flash point, burn lite off temp. where #2 starts at 170'f and the heavier portions of the fuel won't light off until the flame gets over 1000'f. part of the reason #2 starts a bit easier when its cool out. b99 has a flash point near 750'f and full burn is around 890'f. this is second hand info, so i'm most likely wrong about the numbers, but the general idea is correct.
cc

sorry about the numbers, i missed a key on the bio flash point it should of been 275' this is from a couple of second hand sources...
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:42 AM
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I have burn b99 for years. You need to change fuel filters every 1,000 miles when you first start using bio. than after 2 or 3 times, every 10,000. As soon as you think temp. will go down to 60*f go to b50 below 40*f go to b20 below 0*f deisel. I am running b99 chicken fat, temps could be higher or lower for you. Filters are a main part of running bio. With what I am running b99 left in truck at 32*f will freeze, look like shaved ice in filters!
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:47 PM
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Yeah I've changed the fuel filters a number of times - my truck was pretty new when I started with the bio so it wasn't that bad. I am careful now about the cool nights -last year was a bit of a freak winter in FL. Clearly stalling the truck with gelled B99 can't be good for the injectors.

Anyone ever heard of B99 dissolving the glue in the oil filter?
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullid01 View Post

Anyone ever heard of B99 dissolving the glue in the oil filter?
First for me. (oil or fuel filters ) I would say this is from someone making their own biodiesel!
There are things that have to be cleaned out of oils before you could burn as biodiesel. I us chicken fat based & buy from one oil company only.
As for as temp. do change before temp. drops, do not have fuel in truck,
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullid01 View Post
I have heard a few rumors and I would like to know if there is any truth to them.
I have a 6.0L psd and have run B99 for the last 2 yrs with brief breaks for winter (FL) without any problems from the biodiesel.


2. I have heard B99 can dissolve the glue that holds the motorcraft oil filter together. I have done several oil changes (every 5000mi) in the last 2 yrs and I have not noticed any problems with either oil or fuel filter breakdown.

It would seem to me that if you have that much of a concentration of biodiesel in your crankcase, you have much bigger problems.
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:53 PM
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I think there are a lot of biodiesel haters out there trying to scare people (like me). Filters breaking down sounded pretty ridiculous to me, but I thought I would ask. So long as no one else is having problems, I'm happy.
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:59 PM
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Stick with Ford filters
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullid01 View Post
I think there are a lot of biodiesel haters out there trying to scare people (like me). Filters breaking down sounded pretty ridiculous to me, but I thought I would ask. So long as no one else is having problems, I'm happy.
I've never heard of this either, but there is a plausible explanation. When a diesel (or any high-compression engine) is cold, there is some amount of blow-by present. The rings do not fully 'seal' until near operating temp and simultaneously poor atomization and combustion are normal. So, when starting cold - some combustion gasses get into the crankcase and mix with the engine oil. One of the main qualities of 'diesel oil' is dispersants that keep this diesel in solution with the oil preventing separation and isolated wear, etc. There have been MANY WVO 'blenders' and 'one-tankers' over the years who learned about this the hard way. See, when SVO gets into the crankcase oil, it rapidly polymerizes and gradually 'thickens' the oil so it no longer fits in the places its needed to do its job lubricating things. Some were lucky enough to see increased wear by doing UOA's - others disassembled engine to find a cottage cheese-looking substance where oil used to be! (severe blowby from poor compression and extended oil changes - iow's SUICIDE ).

Anyway, I 'spose its possible for some poorly washed B100 (still contains methanol and or caustic) to 'attack' something like the glue inside a filter - since using B100 will result in some B100 entering the crankcase...

My advice to anyone using 'alternative fuels' is to invest $25 in a UOA to establish a 'safe' OCI and do a UOA every once in awhile after that to monitor engine wear. As a minimum, I would (and do) change oil more frequently than if I was burning dead dinosaurs. (My PSD's have just under 200k miles total running SVO .)
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:33 AM
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Oh yeah, the flash point of the B100 I've tested has been 240-250*F - but will vary with feedstock, etc. Flash point of VO is 600*+. (FP of diesel is from 125*-240*F) The flashpoint is almost totally insignificant in the combustion chamber. There are some pretty advanced physics at play up in there...

The cloud point/gel point for B100 will be similar to the feed stock. I have made B100 that was clear below 20*F and I've also made B100 that was SOLID at 80*...
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Old 10-10-2010, 10:10 PM
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Thanks - I have been doing 4-5K oil changes, but I think I will add the UOA to the regimen to make sure I am doing enough. I am going to add a Fumoto valve with the next change to make it easier to change and test.
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Old 10-15-2010, 02:35 PM
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i always pack extra fuel filters, in both rigs. the only time i've had problems with a fuel filter. was when i left my truck, un-used in the arizona desert for a couple summer months. the inline fuel filter element came loose and blocked flow. easy fix. i changed the $3 filter. this was on my old '83' ranger. the spin on filters, i've never had any problems with. so i've purchased a boat spin on fuel filter unit, for my 2nd tank. problem solved.
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Old 11-04-2010, 07:47 AM
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Sullid01: Where are you getting your "retail" B99? I live in Palm Bay and afik the only place to get ANY concentration of BD is at Glover's, and they told me a year or so ago that they had no way of pumping B99 into my tank, so I have just used a couple of tanks of their B20, and that said their B20 was almost .20 per gallon more than dino at my Sunoco on malabar Road, plus Glover's is kinda out of the way for me and a bit of a hassle to actually go in and buy it.....(Great folks there though!!)
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Old 11-04-2010, 12:58 PM
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I get it from Glover. They allow you to pump it yourself. Ask the guys at the desk to show you how - there is a valve to open, a pump to turn on, reset the meter and you're good to go. Oct-March I use B50 which I mix myself in the tank. Glover also sells on road diesel - so I do 15 gal B99 and top it off with dino-diesel. Glover's B99 is usually 5-10% cheaper than dinodiesel, but I have seen it 10-15% more. You can ask prices inside or call for prices. They do a very high volume of fuel (1million gallons/month) so you are always getting fresh fuel. They go through 60,000 gal of B99 / mo last time I asked. Their B99 will gel at 50-60F so be careful. Last October I got screwed by that cold front. I now leave a mason jar of B99 out by my truck so I will know what is going on in the fuel tank.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tempforce View Post
b99 has a flash point near 750'f and full burn is around 890'f. this is second hand info, so i'm most likely wrong about the numbers, but the general idea is correct.
cc

sorry about the numbers, i missed a key on the bio flash point it should of been 275' this is from a couple of second hand sources...
Biodiesel has a flash point that starts around 266 F, but this can go higher depending on the source WVO. I have actually heard it regularly is between 350 F to 425 F.

That being said, I am on my fifteenth month running B100 homebrew in my 2006 F-250 6L, and all I did before running biodiesel was to install a more powerful fuel pump.

I do live in the high desert of Southern California (Joshua Tree), and summer temps for day/night can run 110 F/70 F and winter average about 60 F / 40 F.

I haven't had any problems. I am going to install a heated fuel filter as a precaution, though. If I do ever manage to get my family moved up to Big Bear Lake area, I will most definitely have to run a B50 at most. Temps there run 70 F/40 F (or less) for summer and 20 F/0 F in winter. Cold!
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:35 PM
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