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  #1  
Old 09-26-2010, 06:44 PM
wade67 wade67 is offline
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manual to power drum brakes conversion

Hello and thanks for the advice on my previous post. I was going to buy a 67 that needed a tranny swap. but I bought a different truck today, it already has been swapped with a 390 and C6 tranny. But this one has manual brakes. To keep the initial cost down I would like to just add a power brake booster. Then down the road, most likely in the spring, I'll convert to front discs. I've never attempted anything like this before and wondered how to go about doing this? It is a 1967 F250 2wd, it also says Camper Special and Ranger on it. I assume I need to buy a brake booster, new master cylinder and a proportioning block. Is that it? I'm hoping it will be a fairly simple upgrade. I just found this online: 57-72 Ford Truck 7" Power Booster W/ Master, Disc/Drum Firewall Mount at Carolina Classic Trucks Will that do it?


OK edit number 2
I found this one http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sk...n+%26+Steering and it specifies power brake booster for front drums. I assumed all power brakes also had front discs. What would the dif. be? Would it matter later down the road when I do convert to front discs?

thanks



Wade
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  #2  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:30 AM
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Wade Welcome to FTE. A better idea might be to buy a donor truck. It would be 73-76 for the half ton but I believe 68/69-76 with 3/4 ton. Although the fit goes to 79 we stop at 76 because it was the last year for the FE engine.

I purchased a donor truck, sold parts that I didn't use for more than my donor cost. You will end up with power disc brakes and power steering for cheep.

guluk



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Old 09-27-2010, 09:26 AM
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Thanks John, I want to go ahead and do a quick fix for the power brakes, the way it is now I'm a bit nervous about the thing stopping. Our rainy season and winter is starting soon so I don't have time to messing with a donor truck now. Next spring I'll get a donor truck and do the whole power disc brake power steering conversion. It looks like for under $200 I can get the brake booster and new master cylinder. Do I need a distribution block or proportioning valve? I guess I will need to see where to get the vacuum line hooked up to the manifold. When I do this I will photograph the steps involved and can do a quick article on the steps involved. Wade
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:00 AM
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i to would like to know more information about this seems like we are on the same page with conversions except mine is a 71 4wd f250 crew the power brake booster should be the same way to upgrade if you can get some pics while doing it would be much help.
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:44 AM
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Personally, I think we would both be smarter if we both just stuck with the manual brakes, and just made sure they were in top working order.
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:45 AM
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Well I have been calling around and apparently there is a difference in pushrod length, anyone know what I need to get? How much of a difference in the pushrod length? They could not tell me because they do not stock it and would have to order it.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:21 PM
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Update, I called around and the ONLY people who really knew what they were talking about are from the first link in my other post. Carolina Classic Trucks were extremely helpful, they ship out power brake conversion kits with everything needed for your specific application. He knew all about pushrod length, mounting brackets, proportioning valves, 4 wheel drum versus disc/drum combo etc.... I felt confident with my purchase. I'll post a message back once I get it, they said about a week to ship it me 3000 miles a way.

Wade
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:51 PM
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how much was the whole conversion kit? do you need a new proportioning valve? do you still use the same power booster on 4 wheel drums when you convert to front or front and rear discs? or would you need to get a different power booster when you go to a disc setup?
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:28 PM
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What I know so far is the proportioning valve is the same for 4 wheel drum or 4 wheel disc regardless of power assist, when it is disc/drum combo a new proportioning valve needs to be installed. I will know more when I get it, probably next Monday or Tuesday.

And yes the booster is the same, the proportioning valve is what changes.



I've replaced a lot of brakes on cars starting with my first car when I was 16. but I have never dealt with any modifications so this is a new area for me. I thought I would share what I'm finding out. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe manual drums had a distribution valve, and disc brakes had the proportioning valve to deliver the different pressure front and rear. Here is something I just found:


"Proportioning valves come in all shapes and sizes and vary depending on the car you are working on and any modifications to the braking system.

The first year for disc brakes on GM and Mopar products was 1967 and Ford was 1966. All American cars built prior to this had four wheel drum brakes. Disc brakes were introduced as an option from 1967-1972. Starting in the 1973 model year, front disc brakes were mostly standard and front drums were no longer available. When the disc brakes were developed, so was the dual master cylinders. Therefore, all 1967 and newer cars came with dual master cylinders from the factory. Disc brakes require different line pressures than drums, so the master was divided into two halves to provide pressure to the front and rear separately. This also meant that if a front line blew out, the car would still have pressure to the rear brakes and vice versa.

All 1967-68 GM factory disc brake cars came with dual piston calipers. If the car is a 1969-72 car, it came with single piston calipers. All aftermarket sets come with the later 1969-72 single piston calipers, but this is not technically factory correct for the 1967-68 cars. The single piston setup will bolt on the 1964-72 GM A-bodies, 1967-69 F-bodies, 1968-74 X-bodies and function perfectly.

The next issue is the prop valve. Since disc brakes were new in 1967, the valve was still being worked out for the next few years. The 1967-70 valves could comprise of as many as three pieces, and the valves would not work properly without all the pieces. In 1971, the valve was finally worked out and the one piece combination valve design was used on most cars from 1971 into the 1980s......"

By the above statement I would assume a '71 or newer proportioning valve would be the best type to get.



Wade
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:43 AM
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Wade, I have known Rick at Carolina Classics for years, you can count on him.

The prop valve is used on disc/drum brake systems because the discs get more juice than the drums. It has to be applied in different amounts, so you have a metering device.

We recommend the donor method because it is an engineered system known to work and has passes all gov regulations. And it is all bolt up.

Your new & improved pressure applier may work fine on the drums, but is not engineered for the truck disc/drums that you may convert to next spring.

Carry on!




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Old 09-28-2010, 08:03 AM
wade67 wade67 is offline
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Thanks John, I spoke with Ryan at Carolina Classics. My current plan is to keep it 4 wheel drums. Then in the spring get a donor truck to convert to front discs and power steering. I will install the correct proportioning valve at the same time I put front discs on it.
This has been a learning experience on how power brakes work. It'll be fun doing all the work I am planning to do on this old truck. It will eventually get lots of modern stuff like A/C and a new bench seat out of a newer truck.
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Old 09-29-2010, 01:52 PM
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OK I just thought of one other thing I will need, the vacuum fitting for the intake manifold. I'm thinking about going to the hardware store and making something up for it. Does anyone know if that is 1/2 NPT? what about the nipple sizes?
I current have the transmission line screwed into the existing one, I figured I'll cut the line and put a hose on it. So I would like to know the different nipple sizes if anyone knows that.

thanks,
Wade
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wade67 View Post
What I know so far is the proportioning valve is the same for 4 wheel drum or 4 wheel disc regardless of power assist, it is disc/drum combo a new proportioning valve needs to be installed.

And yes the booster is the same, the proportioning valve is what changes.

The first year for disc brakes on GM and Mopar products was 1967 and Ford was 1966.

All American cars built prior to this had four wheel drum brakes.

Disc brakes were introduced as an option from 1967-1972.

Starting in the 1973 model year, front disc brakes were mostly standard and front drums were no longer available.
Welcome to FTE

Your disc brake history is in-correct, as is other info. Here are the facts.

First front disc brakes on a US car: 1950 Chrysler Imperial.

First caliper type front disc brakes on a US car: 1963 Studebaker Avanti (standard equipment), optional on Hawk's & Lark's.

First front disc brakes on a GM car: 1965 Corvette. Also standard equipment on 1965 AMC Marlin's.

1965 was the first year some FoMoCo passenger cars offered front disc brakes. P/D brakes were standard on Lincoln's & T-Bird's, optional on some others. Mustangs offered manual disc brakes as an option.

Maverick introduced June 1969 as a 1970 model, but front disc brakes were not available until 1974.

Dual piston caliper front disc brakes were optional on 1968/72 F250 2WD's and F350's. In addition to the specific prop valve, these trucks also used a metering valve.

1973 was the first year F100 2WD's came with front disc brakes. Manual discs were standard, power discs were optional.

1976 was the first year front disc brakes were available on F100/250 4WD's.

1967 F100/350: There were 3 different Brake Differential Proportioning Valves: F100 4WD; F250 4WD; F100/250 2WD & F350.

These valves are 1967 only. They are not the same as 1968/72 F100/350's, which offered 4 different valves. The low brake fluid warning light switch used in 1967, is also 1967 only.

The various master cylinders and P/B boosters used in 1967 F100/350's: 1967 only.

1967 F100/350 brake and clutch pedal, bracket they suspend from under the dash: 1967 only.

And this is a drop in the bucket, there are myriad differences between 1967 F100/350's and 1968/72 F100/350's...even though these trucks all look pretty much the same.

FoMoCo vehicles use different boosters with disc brakes than they do with drum brakes, ditto for master cylinders and prop valves. If speed control is present, these parts may be specific to it.

And, btw: One brake and one clutch pedal were used on 1968/72 F100/350's.

1973/79 F100/350: There are TWENTY TWO different brake pedals, SEVEN different clutch pedals and NINETEEN different P/B boosters...I kid you not.
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  #14  
Old 09-30-2010, 11:16 AM
wade67 wade67 is offline
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Thanks for all that info!

I had pasted that with quotes to reflect it was not my information. I got it off a website as I'm trying to learn more about this.

Why were there 3 different proportioning valves in 67?
I had heard somewhere, might be wrong info, but someone once told me that front disc do 70% of the stopping power. I would think there would only need to be one type if that is the case. Did they have some which had different percentages?

thanks,
wade
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:32 PM
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Bill;

Thanks for all the info, as always! I'm also just about to convert my '67 F100 2wd from manual drums to power drums.

To make sure I'm understanding correctly:
A '67 F100 2wd was only available with (std) manual drums or (optional) power all-drums. Both use the same proportioning valve and the same master cylinder, right?

So, to convert a '67 F100 2wd from manual drums to power drums, you essentially are just shifting the master cylinder forward and adding the booster, mounting brackets and the link to the pedal.

Of course, that's where it gets tricky. Ideally, you try to find a '67 F100 with the power drums option, but they are rare. So, you get the booster and hardware from a '68-'72 model, and match it up with the all-drums master cylinder. But, because of all of the combinations of master cylinders, boosters, brackets, links and pedals that were available between '67 and '72 on all of the truck models, it's easy to get a mismatch of the parts that won't work together. This is where it's best to get the whole master cylinder-to-pedal link package from one truck.

In my case, I bought a whole kit from a guy who seems to know his Ford trucks. It's the master cylinder, booster, and brackets from a '68 F100 2wd with power drums. He then included the adjustable-length pedal link. I haven't done the conversion yet, but it all looks like it goes together. I'm going to be replacing all of the lines and hoses at the same time.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:32 PM
 
 
 
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