Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Performance, Engines & Troubleshooting > Big Block V8 - 385 Series (6.1/370, 7.0/429, 7.5/460)
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


Welcome to Ford-Trucks Forums!
Welcome to Ford-Trucks.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Ford-Trucks Forums community today!





 
Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 09-18-2010, 06:16 PM
jonbar87's Avatar
jonbar87 jonbar87 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 357
jonbar87 is starting off with a positive reputation.
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jonathan-barnes/56/718/6a4
Converted 1997 F-350 7.5 460 to Sequential EFI - Dyno Graphs Inside

As some of you may know I converted my 97 F-350 with a 460 from bank-to-bank EFI to sequential EFI by making a wiring harness and wiring in some other sensors so I could use an AEM full standalone ECU on my speed density setup (saved me from having to convert to MAF)

I don't have pics and vids cause the buddy I went with used his phone and for some reason we can't get his sd card mounted to the computer so those will come later, for now I do have the graphs though:

First is 203HP and 321Torque
Second run I added about 4 degrees of timing and made 210HP and 329Torque
Third run I added 8* down low (went from 19* @600rpm to 28* @ 600rpm, then calculated over to 3500 where I'm running 35*. I kept it at 35* total as a previous with an added 2* didn't increase it at all) This is when I made 207HP and 341 Torque. Adding any more timing didn't help power so I backed it off to where it was and left it. AFR's were around 12.8 - 12.9 consistently


First run
Click the image to open in full size.
Second run
Click the image to open in full size.
Third run
Click the image to open in full size.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-20-2010, 10:05 PM
jonbar87's Avatar
jonbar87 jonbar87 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 357
jonbar87 is starting off with a positive reputation.
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jonathan-barnes/56/718/6a4
YouTube - Ford 460 dyno sefi conversion
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-22-2010, 10:43 PM
2stroke rider7's Avatar
2stroke rider7 2stroke rider7 is offline
Junior User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 53
2stroke rider7 is starting off with a positive reputation.
What do you have setup for your exhaust? Headers? Straight through no mufflers? I would like to know because it sounded very good in the video with no backfiring which mine does. Also what were the stock hp numbers?
__________________
Build in Progress:1989 F-250 4x4 460 4" lift 36" Militarytires, Soon to Come: Lockers, D60F, Engine Mods
'99 YZ 125
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-22-2010, 11:23 PM
jonbar87's Avatar
jonbar87 jonbar87 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 357
jonbar87 is starting off with a positive reputation.
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jonathan-barnes/56/718/6a4
Stock exhaust manifold, stock cat, 3" straight pipe from cat back back with no mufflers.

No stock numbers to compare it to unfortunately but this http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/97...ts-are-in.html should give you an idea. My first pull I made almost identical hp/torque...only difference is I have a cat and 37" tires
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-26-2010, 11:13 PM
mdula's Avatar
mdula mdula is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 506
mdula is starting off with a positive reputation.
Sounds good, nice numbers too. Is that wil an E4OD? Man I would love to get more info on doing this conversion. Bank-to-bank never made much sense to me. Did you get any MPG savings?

Are there any writeups on converting to the AEM ECU?

Thanks, Mike
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-26-2010, 11:58 PM
jonbar87's Avatar
jonbar87 jonbar87 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 357
jonbar87 is starting off with a positive reputation.
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jonathan-barnes/56/718/6a4
Yeah bank to bank is pretty stupid in my opinion....hence the conversion. My mileage went from 9.3 to 12....not excellent but definitely worth it to me. There's no writeup that i know of as i think i'm the first to convert this particular year model 460 to aem but honestly it wasn't bad. I actually did a writeup here Ballertown Motorsports • Login . You may not be able to view it so if not just register with the forum. The owner of the the forum (blacksaleen95) is extremely knowledgeable and helped me setup my aem map. All in all it cost me about 800. It was extremely simple as well....all i had to do was make a sequential fuel injector harness, wire it into the engine harness ecu connector, add a map sensor and wire that in, and that's it. If you got any questions let me know.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-28-2010, 01:16 PM
mdula's Avatar
mdula mdula is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 506
mdula is starting off with a positive reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbar87 View Post
Yeah bank to bank is pretty stupid in my opinion....hence the conversion. My mileage went from 9.3 to 12....not excellent but definitely worth it to me. There's no writeup that i know of as i think i'm the first to convert this particular year model 460 to aem but honestly it wasn't bad. I actually did a writeup here Ballertown Motorsports • Login . You may not be able to view it so if not just register with the forum. The owner of the the forum (blacksaleen95) is extremely knowledgeable and helped me setup my aem map. All in all it cost me about 800. It was extremely simple as well....all i had to do was make a sequential fuel injector harness, wire it into the engine harness ecu connector, add a map sensor and wire that in, and that's it. If you got any questions let me know.
Thanks a million! I'll check it out, im real interested in doing it. Ive debated on either doing a sequential swap vs a MAF conversion. I'd love to run a MAF setup so I can bump the compression up and stroke the motor with a fat cam, but it seems like alot of work and not alot of supported articles on it with a 460...although im certain it could e done. BTW good lookin truck.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-28-2010, 01:21 PM
jonbar87's Avatar
jonbar87 jonbar87 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 357
jonbar87 is starting off with a positive reputation.
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jonathan-barnes/56/718/6a4
Not a problem.

Yeah that's why I went with sequential speed density vs MAF. Not only do I benefit from the mileage, I now can make any modification and still be able to tune it for maximum power.

All you need is:

AEM ECU 30-1400 - found one for $750 on ebay
Click the image to open in full size.
A junk wiring harness to make the SEFI harness - $50 from the junk yard
Click the image to open in full size.
to make this...
Click the image to open in full size.
Honda map sensor. I had one laying around. A GM one would work also. $5??...
Click the image to open in full size.

Really the most expensive part is the AEM ECU. Cost me a total of about $800 and super easy to do.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-28-2010, 01:24 PM
mdula's Avatar
mdula mdula is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 506
mdula is starting off with a positive reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbar87 View Post
Not a problem.

Yeah that's why I went with sequential vs MAF. Not only do I benefit from the mileage, I now can make any modification and still be able to tune it for maximum power.
So with the AEM ecu and sequential fire system I should be able to run a 9.5:1 compression and a bump up the cam?

I work in computers so im not exactly "lost" but I am just starting to read on this subject.

Edit: BTW, im just now reading your article at ballertown...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-28-2010, 01:31 PM
jonbar87's Avatar
jonbar87 jonbar87 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 357
jonbar87 is starting off with a positive reputation.
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jonathan-barnes/56/718/6a4
Absolutely. With AEM the possibilities are literally almost endless. You could bump your compression up to 12.0:1 if you wanted...you'd just have to pull timing. Adding a Cam won't be a problem either. ANY mod you do you'll be compensate for it. You can download AEMTuner here and just play around in it...you'll see what I'm talking about. AEM EMS's were specifically designed for people who want to do major modifications.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-29-2010, 01:02 AM
mjp_t98 mjp_t98 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 119
mjp_t98 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbar87 View Post
Absolutely. With AEM the possibilities are literally almost endless. You could bump your compression up to 12.0:1 if you wanted...you'd just have to pull timing. Adding a Cam won't be a problem either. ANY mod you do you'll be compensate for it. You can download AEMTuner here and just play around in it...you'll see what I'm talking about. AEM EMS's were specifically designed for people who want to do major modifications.
I don't want to badmouth any part of your conversion; I think it's great that you've shown how to convert to an AEM system. I certainly wasn't aware that AEM made units with Ford connectors, and it certainly prompts me to look more into how a friend's Subaru with an AEM system is tuned.

However I DO question your attributing the mpg gains you've got to the conversion to sequential EFI. I also used to think that sequential had to be better than batch fire, at least until I learned that fuel is always injected onto the back of a closed intake valve. With the 460, 4 intake valves are closed at any one time, and so it works just fine.

I don't doubt that you did get mpg and possibly performance gains, but I would assert that you got those from tuning fuel and spark for your engine. Most of the 460 Ford Speed Density ECU calibrations I've seen run quite rich, and may be locked out of closed loop except at idle. Fixing those issues with the Ford system is what gave you your gains.

For comparison, you could have tuned your Ford ECU (leaving it batch fire) for (I'd guess) less than $450, and when you were done, you could burn that tune to a chip for about $60, freeing your other equipment for use on many other pre 2005 Fords. That option would have been a lot more attractive if you'd had an automatic.

But anyway, none of that detracts from the work you have done; congratulations on getting it to work so well.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-29-2010, 01:06 AM
jonbar87's Avatar
jonbar87 jonbar87 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 357
jonbar87 is starting off with a positive reputation.
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jonathan-barnes/56/718/6a4
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjp_t98 View Post
I don't want to badmouth any part of your conversion; I think it's great that you've shown how to convert to an AEM system. I certainly wasn't aware that AEM made units with Ford connectors, and it certainly prompts me to look more into how a friend's Subaru with an AEM system is tuned.

However I DO question your attributing the mpg gains you've got to the conversion to sequential EFI. I also used to think that sequential had to be better than batch fire, at least until I learned that fuel is always injected onto the back of a closed intake valve. With the 460, 4 intake valves are closed at any one time, and so it works just fine.

I don't doubt that you did get mpg and possibly performance gains, but I would assert that you got those from tuning fuel and spark for your engine. Most of the 460 Ford Speed Density ECU calibrations I've seen run quite rich, and may be locked out of closed loop except at idle. Fixing those issues with the Ford system is what gave you your gains.

For comparison, you could have tuned your Ford ECU (leaving it batch fire) for (I'd guess) less than $450, and when you were done, you could burn that tune to a chip for about $60, freeing your other equipment for use on many other pre 2005 Fords. That option would have been a lot more attractive if you'd had an automatic.

But anyway, none of that detracts from the work you have done; congratulations on getting it to work so well.
I totally agree. i don't think my mileage went up that much from the actual sequential efi, but rather from the more efficient AFR's along with optimal timing numbers. Although at the same time, I can't help to think that not dumping fuel on top of 3 other closed valves that are hot and having it evaporate before the next actual intake stroke did help it out a bit, but like you say it's definitely a combination of things. At cruise where my load is around -10" I have it tuned to where the AFR's are around 14.2 -14.5...which I'm sure is much leaner than the stock ECU like you mentioned
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-29-2010, 09:40 AM
85lebaront2's Avatar
85lebaront2 85lebaront2 is offline
Old School Hot Rodder
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Exmore, VA
Posts: 5,201
85lebaront2 has a great reputation on FTE.85lebaront2 has a great reputation on FTE.85lebaront2 has a great reputation on FTE.85lebaront2 has a great reputation on FTE.85lebaront2 has a great reputation on FTE.85lebaront2 has a great reputation on FTE.
william.a.vose
If I hadn't already started acquiring my stuff for a conversion, I probably would have looked at AEM, I looked at a bunch of aftermarket setups. My major hangup on them was transmission control. I am going to EFI primarily to use an E4OD in place of the C6. I did acquire a 93 SD SEFI computer with E4OD control but after talking with a number of people found that SD doesn't tolerate much cam change. It causes the same issues we used to see with lumpy cams that had low vacuum at idle.

I plan on seeing if mine will go 16:1 or leaner at cruise, the old 390 2V engines in the LTDs would cruise at 19:1 or leaner (they would peg an AFR meter on the lean side). At least I don't have to worry about Cats on mine.
__________________
Bill Vose (Old School Hot Rodder)
1986 F350 crew cab DRW 460ci EEC-V MAF/SEFI, E4OD, PMGR starter, 160 amp 3G alternator, 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, Traction lock 3.55
1995 Lincoln Continental (project car), 1994 Taurus LX (daily driver)
http://www.oldschoolhotrodder.com
"growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-29-2010, 10:19 AM
mjp_t98 mjp_t98 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 119
mjp_t98 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 85lebaront2 View Post
If I hadn't already started acquiring my stuff for a conversion, I probably would have looked at AEM, I looked at a bunch of aftermarket setups. My major hangup on them was transmission control. I am going to EFI primarily to use an E4OD in place of the C6. I did acquire a 93 SD SEFI computer with E4OD control but after talking with a number of people found that SD doesn't tolerate much cam change. It causes the same issues we used to see with lumpy cams that had low vacuum at idle.

I plan on seeing if mine will go 16:1 or leaner at cruise, the old 390 2V engines in the LTDs would cruise at 19:1 or leaner (they would peg an AFR meter on the lean side). At least I don't have to worry about Cats on mine.
SD just calculates air mass from pressure and temperature. Ford's SD has a calibration table so you can tune this calculation to compensate for different flow efficiencies in the intake. So as long as any new cam preserves the relationship of flowing more air with more manifold pressure, you should be able to calibrate the airflow to be correct.

However, for some reason Ford SD tuning expertise seems to have gone away, and all you hear is that you have to go Mass Air. Never mind that SD lives on outside of the Ford EFI world.

Did you know that the 94 Ford SD code provides for open loop, closed loop and an extra lean open loop MPG mode? They may not be calibrated in as stock, but the code and tables are there. I don't know about the 93; if you post the bin, I could find out, or maybe with the catch code.

So with the AEM system, can you make an easy software change and run back in 2 bank batch fire, and see what the difference really is?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-29-2010, 11:06 AM
85lebaront2's Avatar
85lebaront2 85lebaront2 is offline
Old School Hot Rodder
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Exmore, VA
Posts: 5,201
85lebaront2 has a great reputation on FTE.85lebaront2 has a great reputation on FTE.85lebaront2 has a great reputation on FTE.85lebaront2 has a great reputation on FTE.85lebaront2 has a great reputation on FTE.85lebaront2 has a great reputation on FTE.
william.a.vose
I am quite aware that SD lives outside the Ford world, my screen name gives a hint. My other perversion is turbocharged Chrysler engines. Their systems are all SD, but did start SEFI in 1990. Once the truck is back running again (it is getting a bed replacement and rear end work in addition to EFI conversion) I will go back to my K car convertible (license plate reads T2KCAR).
__________________
Bill Vose (Old School Hot Rodder)
1986 F350 crew cab DRW 460ci EEC-V MAF/SEFI, E4OD, PMGR starter, 160 amp 3G alternator, 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, Traction lock 3.55
1995 Lincoln Continental (project car), 1994 Taurus LX (daily driver)
http://www.oldschoolhotrodder.com
"growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 11:06 AM
 
 
 
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lifted 1997 Ford F-350 XLT Crew Cab Long box - MINT condition - Tons of Extras jonbar87 Vehicles for Sale 18 12-08-2012 01:01 PM
FS: **LIKE NEW**4 Ford F150 265/70R17 17x7.5 6x135 6x5.3 Rims Wheels Tires - $975 jonbar87 Ford Truck Parts for Sale 1 07-28-2012 10:57 PM
Converted 1997 F-350 7.5 460 to Sequential EFI - Tuned with AEM - Dyno Graphs Inside jonbar87 Computer Chips & Tuners 4 04-30-2012 01:56 AM
Converted 1997 F-350 7.5 460 to Sequential EFI - Dyno Graphs Inside jonbar87 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 3 09-20-2010 03:49 AM
1996 -97 7.5L 460 F-350 EEC-IV Powertrain Control Module (PCM/ECU) Pinout jonbar87 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 0 08-29-2010 06:30 PM


Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Performance, Engines & Troubleshooting > Big Block V8 - 385 Series (6.1/370, 7.0/429, 7.5/460)

Tags
1999, 460, 75, bank, cardone, chevrolet, conversion, dyno, f350, fire, ford, injector, jonbar87, sefi, sequential

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup