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Old 02-20-2003, 11:27 AM
Ryan_22 Ryan_22 is offline
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

Why does Dodge and Chevy think they can compete when the new Ford engines is producing 325 horsepower and 560lb-ft or torque when they are only producing 305-555, and 300-520 so some please explain this to me becuase if you can't why try?
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Old 02-20-2003, 01:56 PM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

Why? Because the Cummins H.O. turbo diesel is a TRUE diesel. And the Powerstroke is a V8 gas-motor-turned-into-a-diesel. The Cummins is 6-cylinders, inline, well balanced, tried and true, simple yet strong. The Cummins motor has proven itself year after year, in lots of different applications. And the Dodge truck it comes in has a 7 year/100,000 mile warranty (reduced to 70,000 miles for this year). That warranty blows Ford's warranty out of the water.

And when you pay $40,000 for a truck, it's nice to know that you are covered past 36,000 miles. A better warranty, longer lasting motor, and knowing that you can pull a house off it's foundation....THAT is why Dodge knows it can compete with Ford. The Cummins makes the same power this year...with two fewer pistons which means better gas mileage too!
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Old 02-20-2003, 02:03 PM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

Why do YOU think GMC/Chevy can't compete?

Fact is -they can and do.

Fact is the Dmax is the number 2 diesel out now(7.3L used to be)
6.0L is'int proven yet...unless 3000 miles and a blue oval are automatic qualifications.

Why did Ford or GM think their diesels could compete with the Cummins in the new Dodge in 94'?

Why did either think they could compete with that same engine a year ago?

HP/Torque figures ain't all that, engine life, durability, mileage, and construction must all be factored in as well-that's why with it's aluminum heads the Dmax still was'int as good as the 7.3L in the Ford-inspite of it's greater HP/torque ratings.

So it is with the 6.0L-it's too new to sing it's praises.

GM got a breather-esp considering all the problems the 6.0 has had so far-GM is currently outselling Ford-they can't afford to let more sales slip up to them-but if you want a v-8 diesel in a new truck right now then the track record undoubtedly favors the Dmax.
Anyway...hope that helps you understand why GM "thinks" they can compete..lol.



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Old 02-20-2003, 03:45 PM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

If you look at the recent history of light truck diesels, the turbo-charged powerstroke would might not have been if it weren't for the Cummins turbo diesel Dodge offered.

Competition is the name of the game, whatever sells. GM being long behind in the diesel field, finally came up with the Dmax to compete. Although the Allison auto with it is what's actually selling it. Both Ford and Dodge's autos have a poor track record coupled to a diesel. Now Ford has upped the ante with the new 6.0 PSD and hopefully a decent auto with the 5 speed torq-shift. Dodge still lacks a decent auto, the HO only available with a manual.

And thanks to GM, all the new diesels are quiet as a mouse!!
I'm guessing why Ford and GM use V-8s is a simpler installation in standard engine compartments. Durability goes to the inline six, that's all you ever see in the big trucks, and they last a long time.
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Old 02-21-2003, 11:33 AM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

then why does the new powerstroke have 325 horsepower and 560 ld-ft of torque, dodge has 305/555 and duracrap has 300-520 plus ford powerstrokes have a 98.9 % STILL ON THE ROAD! what can you say about you dodge and ur chevy, as for the warrenty dodge only says that to get u to buy the dang thing when if you by a ford u dont have to worry about it, after 19000 miles dodge trucks are all over the road!
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Old 02-21-2003, 12:20 PM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

Look closely at the RPM figures for each when comparing. The Dodge/Cummins peak torque and HP ratings are at lower RPM compared to the V8 counterparts. It's working range is lower, which results in better fuel economy. That's one thing with the Dmax, it provides decent stock HP/torque, but gives poor fuel economy. I know guys that only get 13 MPG, 9MPG when towing with the Dmax. It'll be interesting to see what economy the new PSD has.

The Cummins is much easier/cheaper to performance modify as well. It's the same engine Cummins uses in heavier truck applications stock from the factory with more HP. It can handle the increased performance. Ford even uses it in their heavier trucks. From what I've heard, the new 6.0 PSD is going to be even more difficult to modify, than the previous PSD.

And again, it's what sells. Look at the current Superduty design, it's a clone of Dodge's '94 truck design, because of Dodge's sales success.
  #7  
Old 02-21-2003, 02:26 PM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

Quote:
Originally posted by WXboy
Why? Because the Cummins H.O. turbo diesel is a TRUE diesel. And the Powerstroke is a V8 gas-motor-turned-into-a-diesel. The Cummins is 6-cylinders, inline, well balanced, tried and true, simple yet strong. The Cummins motor has proven itself year after year, in lots of different applications. And the Dodge truck it comes in has a 7 year/100,000 mile warranty (reduced to 70,000 miles for this year). That warranty blows Ford's warranty out of the water.

And when you pay $40,000 for a truck, it's nice to know that you are covered past 36,000 miles. A better warranty, longer lasting motor, and knowing that you can pull a house off it's foundation....THAT is why Dodge knows it can compete with Ford. The Cummins makes the same power this year...with two fewer pistons which means better gas mileage too!

Please show info on the "gas-motor-turned-into-a-diesel" comment. The 6.9/7.3 from IH/Navistar may have been used in some industrial applications, forklift being one, it was from the start a diesel. While the the Cummins has a few features that are geared toward service(inline 6, removable cylinder sleeves) in its current HO application it can't be EPA certified in 2 or 3 states.

The warranty comment is also wrong. Ford has a limited 100,000 mile warranty on their diesels.

The PSD not only destroys the current competition in stock form(read pickuptrucks.com comparison) it's 50 states legal and has an automatic trans available without detuning (unlike Dodge)

I'm not a diesel fan. Have to deal with them 24 hours at a time at work. But if I HAD to choose a diesel right now, the PSD would win hands down. Next year may be different. We are all very lucky for this competition.
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Old 02-21-2003, 02:45 PM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

Traditionally the Izuzu is a better desiel than the Cummins. Long before any of these desiels were in put in automotive applications they were in offroad areas, although the Izuzu was not in the duramax form. They were put into things like skidders, limbers, tree bunchers, back hoes and the like for a long time. Now these kind of applications make the automotive area seem like a tip toe through the tulips. More often than not a cummins will run 25-30 thousand hours and then they get to be pretty tired. On the other hand it is not uncommon to see izuzu desiels with upwards of 40 thousand hours on them and still running strong. The Izuzu's seem to be a bit more refined than the Cummins too. You start up both on a cold mourning the Cummins will sit there shake, rattle and puke raw desiel all over the place for half an hour or more and the Izuzu will run rough for about 30 seconds, level off and run quite smooth. As much as I hate to admit it Izuzu does know how to build an engine. It will be interesting to see if the duramax can hold up this reputation.

As for the ford desiel (6.9-7.3) being "a gas converted to desiel" I beleive International used these engines in buses and medium duty trucks as desiels before ford got a hold of them.

The highest horsepower combo for a cummins that i've seen is in the automotive application. The medium duty trucks are not cammed anything like the ones in automotive applications and are governed at approximately 2200-2400 rpm. The way they gain there power is through gearing. Medium duty trucks have more gears and lower rear ends.

As for the 5.9 lasting longer than the 7.3, i find that hard to beleive. When a person goes to the highmiler truck auctions around here you see both in the 500 thousand mile range. You see the odd one higher in both makes, but when it comes down to it they both seem tired and in need of a rebuild. It would be different if you saw all the dodges with 500 and the fords with 250. personally I think they last about the same.

I personally believe that Dodge will drop the 5.9 in the next couple of years. Their dealing with an engine that was never designed to be used with this high of horsepower combo or run that kind of rpm and the engine is old and in some aspects outdated. It will be hard for dodge to bump up the horsepower much more with out running into emissions and bottom end problems. That engine is pretty much near its limit and I think Dodge will look to Diamler Benz for their next desiel. Apparently Diamler Benz has some of the most inovative desiel technology in the world. They also currently hold the fastest desiel production car title which counts for something. Just my 2 cents.
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Last edited by Rcmgiasson; 02-21-2003 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 02-22-2003, 12:16 AM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

This has been a very interesting thread so far.

Dodge can't make an auto tranny to match the power of its engines.

Ford does have as good of a warranty as dodge does on the diesel engines.

The Chev is going to get louder because there trucks don't meet emissions where as ford is meeting emissions until atleast 2008.

Right now in a head to head to head comparrison I would take the Ford based on driving them all.

I may be biased but I sell Fords for a living and right now this new 6.0 litre diesel is making my job very hard, why you ask, because we don' t have any left to sell and every truck in our order bank is already sold.
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Old 02-22-2003, 10:18 AM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

Quote:
Originally posted by DOHCmarauder
Please show info on the "gas-motor-turned-into-a-diesel" comment. The 6.9/7.3 from IH/Navistar may have been used in some industrial applications, forklift being one, it was from the start a diesel.
Yes I would like to know where you got this info from too. The 7.3 has always been a diesel as far as I know. This isn't the chebby 350 ya know.
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Old 02-22-2003, 12:11 PM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

Quote:
Originally posted by franktheman

GM got a breather-esp considering all the problems the 6.0 has had so far-GM is currently outselling Ford.
Ford sells more diesels than GM and Dodge combined.
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Old 02-23-2003, 09:56 PM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

Right now, the PSD 6L is king of the hill, however Dodge still has higher tow ratings. I suspect that will change.

The Duramax will be at 340hp in 2004, so there is another mark on Dodge's disadvantage list.
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Old 02-23-2003, 10:34 PM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

Quote:
Originally posted by webmaster
Ford sells more diesels than GM and Dodge combined.
And the reason I think this is the case is becasue of the aluminum heads. That is all I keep hearing about it from other people. "Who the heck decided aluminum heads belong on a diesel?" is what they say. I can't honestly say that the 6.0L is the best engine even though it may be but I think the super duty trucks are the best overall package. I know a lot of businesses that traded their old chebbies and dodges in for fords in the OKC area. They said they just held up better in the oil fields than the rest.
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Old 02-24-2003, 06:06 AM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

It's all a matter of preference.

As far as the 6.0L being "king of the hill",I'd say that's being a bit optimistic about Ford's new offering.

Whether or not you like the aluminum heads in the Dmax or the "ancient" design of the Cummins, bear the facts in mind, and the facts are -both these engines have real world track records-with a history of both reliability and problems.

The 6.0L has neither(xcept for all these early problems I keep seeing in the diesel forum).

For some people ,wearing a blue oval and having 3-6000 trouble free miles qualifies an engine as "the best"-I'm not so easily satisfied.
If I were in the market for a diesel -I'd want to know I've got a good investment for my hard earned money(very hard for most of us to ever really justify the added cost up front to begin with,+5000/no rebate=7000.00+tax)

I would'int consider a Dmax for the same reason-if I just HAD to have a diesel, it would be the Cummins right now. In 10 yrs if it turns out the Dmax is still goin'strong I might want one,If in 5 yrs I still see ambulances and fire trucks with powerstrokes in em-that would mean they'd have to be reliable-I'd definately consider that as well. (If an engine is considered reliable enough to rush people to the hospital in a life and death situation,5 yrs from now-then it's good enough for me-but only time will tell).

Both Ford and Chev need to be using the Dodge manual anyway-it's got cast iron case and still uses real gear oil-not ATF.
Course Dodge can't build a decent auto from what I've heard-not that it matters to me -I'm a stick guy....



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Old 02-24-2003, 08:15 AM
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Powerstroke 6.0 vs. Cummins 5.9 vs. Duramax 6.6

First of all, Dodge's warranty covers ALL of the driveline. Ford's only covers that diesel engine. So Dodge's warranty IS much better.

Second, the 6.0 PSD is NOT king of the hill, because it still hasn't proven itself. It is currently plagued with lots of problems. Who cares about 560 lb./ft. of torque if you can't keep it out of the shop?

If you want a diesel truck, the Dodge is still the way to go. I'm a Ford man...but the facts are the facts.
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Old 02-24-2003, 08:15 AM
 
 
 
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