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  #1  
Old 09-15-2010, 10:24 PM
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houseofdiesel houseofdiesel is offline
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Small Ford Diesel

Well I just bought a '04 VW Touareg V10TDI, and it kinda pisses me off. I love it (the Touareg). My '05 Excursion I had was unbelievable but not very realistic now that I needed a commuter for just me and my three little ones. Between the EPA's big squeeze of the diesel products and Ford's pull back due to the economy, it's a joke that we can't buy a Explorer, Ranger, F150, or Expedition with a diesel motor capable of towing between 7500 and 10,000 lbs and getting 30-40 MPG. I write this in hopes that others right of their equal desires and disgust, in hopes that Ford takes the money they are piling in from the new '11 PowerStroke sales and throw it at say a V10 TDI beater. It wasn't that long ago that no one could have imagined diesel sales being anywhere close to 50 percent of SuperDuty sales. We are the same people that would jump at the chance to help justify the manufacturing of a light light duty duty diesel that could blow the lid of the other guys. It easy to see what you guys are capable of with the new line of V6's, 5.0, and 6.7 PowerStroke. Quite thinking about it and do it. Now is the time to take over. This isn't rear steer or body side storage panels. This is a movement. A movement that single minded environmentalists don't understand and want to suppress. Their new little laws not only suppressed the diesel market sales and sizes of selections, but also increased our dependency on more oil by cutting into the efficiency of the diesel system, which if they understood the true potential of would have taken a different approach and maybe helped further the engineering for efficiency instead of blindly throwing restrictions on all of the people and vehicles that run this country. We are the ones that build America, not them. All they do is get in the way of progress. Instead of helping get it in the right direction they block it completely. So I and hopefully we beg you Ford engineers and Management. Build it and engineer it and rule the market. Scrap the 4.4. Think outside the box as you did on the 6.7 Scorpion. Build something like the V10 TDI but even more game changing. Make everyone stand up and recognize the success of doing it on our own here in the USA. Own the market, own the future. I want a midsize diesel powered Ford that can tow my boat and scuttle around town and get 30-40 MPG.
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  #2  
Old 09-16-2010, 09:22 AM
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Don't we all. But it seems that Ford and GM are putting their money into the direct injection gasoline program instead.
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2010, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tseekins View Post
Don't we all. But it seems that Ford and GM are putting their money into the direct injection gasoline program instead.
Wrong. There is a bunch of new press showing the baby Max is back on the GM board. The direct injection investment is done, the products are set. It's time to re-invest the new money they are making from the Superduty sales into the next thing. Imagine how much sales they would get if the Explorer, Expedition, Ranger, and F150 offered a 300 HP diesel that got 30-40 MPG. Maybe then Ford could truely have the best selling truck since their claim of being the best selling truck for 30+ years is a play on words. That fact doesn't add Chevy and GM sales together which is kind of unrealistic since it includes both F150 and Superduties. There were a lot of years that GM/Chevy outsold Ford in the pickup market. They need to quit fear mongering and do it. This isn't the 80's. Build it and they will come. And not the little 3.0Ls that only get 18-25 MPG like the Audi Q7 or new Touareg 2. Something like the V12 Q7 Audi only sold in Germany. Shoot I love my '84 Diesel Ranger. It gets 35-40 MPG. The 2.3 is just too small for todays world, but it's awesome to scoot around the bay and only put 3 Gal. in it when I get home.
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:18 PM
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So there is a small diesel ford ranger allready. Hate to tell you this if you don't allready know it, but its only forsale in australia. Funny how the liberal europe, and aussies have all the turbo diesels made by american companys, but we can't get them cause of regulation. I tell you this though. Ford needs to do a new 2.3 turbo diesel, or maybe as big as 3.0. I mean Mahindra allready is making a 2.2 turbo diesel small truck that will get between 30 and 39 mpg and has enough torque to two a small trailer or boat, and can hold almost 3000 lbs in the bed. All at 22,000.00. Now I have a friend that has drove this truck and says its one of the coolest little trucks he has ridden in. Its confortable and he drove it all day in city(denver) and on the freeway, and it got 39mpg so thats how I know. Now taking in fords success with the 6.7 and the potential 26 mpg and half sizing it and half the weight in a truck and you should have 50mpg and almost 200 hp and 350 ft lbs tq. For your information the original rangers had either a mitsu diesel or one made by a subsiderary company of cat. Imagine the same displacement and twice the power. I do hope this is on fords minds as much as it is on ours. Also chevy has had a smaller duramax in the plans for years that was suppose to go in its suvs to get them into the 20+mpg range. Stupid hippies don't realize diesels are green.
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:52 AM
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Hopefully the Mahindra truck will pave the way for Ford if no one else to get the ball rolling. IMO, if the 3.5L Ecoboost is as a successful as Ford says it will be, they may not look for a small diesel.
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2010, 12:39 PM
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2009 Ford Ranger Specifications - (Australia) here are the stats for the current diesel ranger.
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Old 10-09-2010, 03:46 PM
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Hi Jfive, infact that is the current Ranger which has been around since late 2008. I read read that the 2012 Ranger will be shown on the 15th October at a moter show in Oz. I will be browsin around since we also get that version of the Ranger
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:57 AM
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Middle Eastern Diesel Ranger

Click the image to open in full size. These are the best trucks here IMHO. If the US had them I would get one.
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfive View Post
So there is a small diesel ford ranger allready. Hate to tell you this if you don't allready know it, but its only forsale in australia. Funny how the liberal europe, and aussies have all the turbo diesels made by american companys, but we can't get them cause of regulation. I tell you this though. Ford needs to do a new 2.3 turbo diesel, or maybe as big as 3.0. I mean Mahindra allready is making a 2.2 turbo diesel small truck that will get between 30 and 39 mpg and has enough torque to two a small trailer or boat, and can hold almost 3000 lbs in the bed. All at 22,000.00. Now I have a friend that has drove this truck and says its one of the coolest little trucks he has ridden in. Its confortable and he drove it all day in city(denver) and on the freeway, and it got 39mpg so thats how I know. Now taking in fords success with the 6.7 and the potential 26 mpg and half sizing it and half the weight in a truck and you should have 50mpg and almost 200 hp and 350 ft lbs tq. For your information the original rangers had either a mitsu diesel or one made by a subsiderary company of cat. Imagine the same displacement and twice the power. I do hope this is on fords minds as much as it is on ours. Also chevy has had a smaller duramax in the plans for years that was suppose to go in its suvs to get them into the 20+mpg range. Stupid hippies don't realize diesels are green.
I have 3 of those. Two of the '83/'84 Mazda 2.2L non turbo diesels and one of the '85-'87 Mitsu turbo diesel 4x4s. The head is done on the '86 and I used the drive train from one of the early ones to make one good truck. Gets about 30-35 MPG, but is only 2WD. They are great little trucks.

Now as for the new design they have so much good design to use they can do anything as long as they go all out. They also have a partnership with Peugeot with their Leon engines making those kind of numbers. They should make a 2.6 to 3.0 V6 with those kind of numbers and a small V8 with baby Max crushing numbers like 5.0L and 350HP and 600 LBTQ. I love my V10 Touareg and since it is easily tunable to those numbers and it's design is now over 6 years old 350 to 400 HP out of that displacement should be easily in reach. It's time for Ford to take the approach they've taken with over engineering the Scorpion 6.7 Powerstroke and spread it across the board and rule the auto market and leave everyone chasing their tail.
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:59 AM
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At least they have turbos on their mind. I am currently building a turbo 2.3 gas motor ranger, and even having a turbo on a gas motor can allow you to use a smaller displacement motor, and mileage, and still be able to pull a trailer, when you previously would struggle. But truely they do need to make a diesel. Personally, I think a straight four cylinder makes the most sense. the 4bt is capable of 800hp and a insane amount of torque to go with it, so having about 220 hp and 450tq in a small truck with a little bit tougher frame and upgraded brakes would sell faster than hotdogs at a ball game. Then they should make a smaller version of the torqshift, like they do with the M50D-R2 heavy duty.
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Old 10-12-2010, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by fly360 View Post
Click the image to open in full size. These are the best trucks here IMHO. If the US had them I would get one.
Yep I agree if they were here in the US I would be in the market diesel Ranger
as well...
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Old 10-17-2010, 08:23 PM
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I don't know that I could live with a compact truck like a ranger, but if there was a diesel 1/2 ton out when I got my super duty I would have a hard time passing it up. I thought the 4.4L idea was the best thing to hit the truck market when I heard about it. Everyone is right that says it would bring fantastic sales to the light truck market. The people that drive a pickup truck these days as a daily driver and grocery getter, with an occasional lawn/garden/home improvement job to do on the weekends, would probably go bonkers with one that could get upwards of 40mpg at the same time.

That having been said, I am not sure I could down size too much after getting in my super duty. I got a truck because I need a truck. I wanted more stability and tow capacity over my 1/2 ton chevy and I've always wanted a diesel. Things just lined up right and I ended in my 6.4L 250 in my sig. Its a fantastic truck!

I figure this one will buy me some time to watch the market. Who knows what will come later on down the line. I surely hope the diesels get even better mileage as the generations go by. It's too bad the EPA has F'ed everything up right now, but at the same time things have to start somewhere. The 6.4L only lasted 3 years and the 6.7L came out - it was just a transition period for Ford while they were in the works on the 6.7. Everyone is in a constant state of R/D, we just have to watch and see what the fruits of their labor end up being, albiet with a hefty hand on the emissions side from the EPA.
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:38 AM
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I talked to Ford the other day. They will not make a F150 diesel because they already have 4 motor options for the F150 and the fuel prices and mileage dont add up to be conservative. Also any Diesel they would put out in a F150 would just be competition between their own new 6.7 F250.
Directly worded from Ford^

Also did you know that you can not buy a Diesel in a stick shift anymore ever again? The transmission can not hold up to the power.
Also stated by Ford.^
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:50 AM
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Not to start a pissing match, but take what Ford gives you about their own vehicles with a grain of salt. Its best for people to speculate than for them to say something that has truth and then be held to that truth later when they cant perform to that truth, or are delayed on that truth. Most of the time its better for a company to not say anything at all, or ignore, than it is to say ANYTHING.

I've hit that brick with another manufacturer - and I've been in that position with an engineering issue that the "manufacturer" wouldn't discuss or talk about. I just got the lip service e-mail of "this is proprietary, we're not talking about it even if we 'did' know what you were talking about". Later, after I solved the problem, that manufacturer told me at a corporate meeting why they reacted how they did. It still irritates me to no end.

Anyway, I'll get off my box now.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Diesel 724 View Post
I talked to Ford the other day. They will not make a F150 diesel because they already have 4 motor options for the F150 and the fuel prices and mileage dont add up to be conservative. Also any Diesel they would put out in a F150 would just be competition between their own new 6.7 F250.
Directly worded from Ford^

Also did you know that you can not buy a Diesel in a stick shift anymore ever again? The transmission can not hold up to the power.
Also stated by Ford.^
I don't think you or the people you spoke with truly understand what your talking about. Especially when it comes to the strength of the transmission. I've been doing diesel competition for the past several years. My main comp rig was a 500 RWHP '05 F350 with 40" tires. That vehicle has over 150K miles on it and only ever had the trans replaced once. Towing a 10K Lb show truck on a 5K Lb 35' Gooseneck all over the west coast, competed in over two dozen sled pulls, a dozen or so drags, and probably over 50 dyno pulls. Now I also own 3 completely different diesel vehicles that have three completely different displacements and serve 3 completely different purposes. A small displacement diesel such as the 2.2 4 Cyl. in the '83 Ford Ranger is simply a fuel efficient vehicle getting 30 MPG. The medium displacement motor in 5.0 V10 in the '04 Toureg is in the same power range as all of our big displacement work trucks, yet could never compete with or replace them. Though the Touareg gets 20-25 MPG and is rated to tow 8K Lbs. it would never hold up to the abuse that the Powerstrokes, Duramaxes, or Cummins do. On top of that the new tow rating system implements braking and these smaller vehicles also have smaller brake and booster, there for the tow ratings will always separate the amount a vehicle can tow or haul as a payload and thus not create any cross marketing. In essence the diesel options should be just as fruvilant as the gas choices. It makes more since. People that buy the Ranger don't care about 0-60. Most 4 Runners and Tacomas have been out selling the Fords for years and most customers just get the 4 Cyl. They are just people or parts movers. With the turbos a diesel 4 cylinder in a ranger could get 30-40 MPG and even have similar acceleration to a V6. In a 2WD it could have higher gears in the rear and really push the 40 MPG range. Check this out for example:

799cc CDI Three-Cylinder Diesel Engine - Smart Fortwo Car - Diesel Power Magazine

This is the capability of diesel that can never be touched by gas. It's physics. The diesel cycle is 10 times more efficient than the gas cycle. To even continue to engineer gas makes no since. There no longer is any advantage of running a gas cycle.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:11 PM
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