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Yesterday was my first tow with my new 2011 F350 which my replaced my 2008 6.4L F250 after it's untimely demise. Just wanted to share some of my thoughts on how they compare.
Yesterday I had to tow my 2000 Ford Contour back from work because of a bad voltage regulator on the alternator. Rather than risk driving it back with it spiking to 19 volts, I figured it was safer to tow it back. Plus I really wanted to try out my new truck!
The reasons I opted for the more expensive 6.7L over the 6.4L were efficiency and hopefully reliability. As new as they are there's no telling whether or not it will prove to be more reliable than the 6.4Ls were, but there is a definite improvement on efficiency. I've seen as high as 22 on the lie-o-meter, and my tanks have averaged 16-19 MPG so far over the 1,180 miles I have on it so far. I was never disappointed with the power my 6.4L had, so the increased power wasn't really much of a factor for me.
Unloaded the new truck has a noticeable power increase over the 6.4L, but it's not a night-and-day difference like comparing the 6.4L to the 7.3L. It feels more refined and almost European to me, which can be a good or bad thing depending on your perspective. The 6-speed transmission is good, but as before it's not as much of an improvement as it was from the old 4R100 to the 5R110 the 6.4L has. I really like the option to shift manually, but as good of a job as the tow/haul mode is on both 5R110 and 6R140, I rarely use it.
Towing reinforces my impressions of the truck unloaded. My 6.4L truck was able to carry nearly 11,000 lbs of enclosed trailer up any and all highway grades I came across at 70 MPH, so power was never a problem there. This time I only had 6,500 lbs behind me(3,500 lb trailer + 3,000 lb car.) This one does feel a bit stronger with the trailer, but as powerful as the 6.4L is, wasn't a real reason to upgrade in my opinion. Full throttle launches with this one with a trailer can be tricky as it likes to spin the tires through second gear. I really have to baby it through a turn before I get on it to avoid a potential jackknife if the traction control doesn't work as it should.
I doubt this truck will be as tune-able as the 6.4L is simply because the turbo system is only rated up to 30 PSI, where the 6.4L turbos are good for 41 PSI. This means that when you really crank up the tuning, the 6.7L can't flow as much air to the cylinders as the 6.4 can. I'm willing to bet a tuned 6.7L with a stock turbo and injectors will NOT make as as much power as a Spartan-ized 6.4L will.
All in all I'm very happy with the new truck and my decision to get the 2011. I wish my '08 wasn't wrecked, as would have preferred a 6.4L that was that much closer to being paid off!
Glad the new truck is working well for you. If you really want to find out how it can tow, you could load up the '08 and drive to Oregon Still at the shipper's yard as of yesterday... I think if I didn't need to finish my degree in the next two months I would have come and gotten it myself already.
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2003 F250 FX4 Sport, 6.0L Diesel, TorqShift Auto
- 4" Icon springs, Bilstein shocks, 4.30 Yukon gears, Detroit TrueTrac, Off Road Tech winch bumper
- ISSPRO EV2 Gauges (Pyro, Fuel PSI, Boost), Banks Technicooler, Garrett PowerMax VGT
Currently wrecked... again. Rebuild to come.
Nice Tom. I can offer some perspective too. I generally try to keep my keyboard quiet 'cause I know the 6.4 guys will get tired of hearing about the 6.7.
Compared to my '08:
Towing enclosed trailers loaded to a max of 8K, I get a hand calc 11-12 running at 72. This includes starts and stops/lights/hills and extended miles. Transmission is more comfy than my '08, engine has a lot more power but it comes on very smooth so jerking around my load (tools and gear) is less of an issue.
Towing 36' 5er, triple axle cargo loaded to 17K:
I got 10.5 hand calc but it was only about 220 miles, half at 70, half on 55mph and less two lane highways, which is a lot harder on the MPG 'cause of all the stops and starts with that weight. At this weight load the engine has a noticeable big gain in power and smoothness. Getting going is effortless (even with the 3.55) and the turbo lag does not cause such a surge like I got with the 6.4. Just plain smooth. Transmission and overall stability is great but my '08 was very stable too.
I have 6800 miles on her and I can tow my trailers up to about 280 miles on a tank of fuel which is about 70 more than I could on the '08, and the tank is 26 gal vs. the 30 on my '08. Really going to save some cash for me.
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2011 F250 6.7 4X4 Lariat Ultimate FX4 3.55 ELock
Polk Audio component speakers, AFE Stage 7 intake
Sho Me Strobes, Shocker XL Horns, BakFlipG2
2 Kicker 10" subs, Rockford Fosgate amp
Ride-Rite air bags, VIAIR #10007 onboard air, AFE DPF back exhaust, power slot rotors/EBC pads, Nitto Trail Grapplers M/T 295/55 R20! Transfer-Flow 50 gal tank
Nice Tom. I can offer some perspective too. I generally try to keep my keyboard quiet 'cause I know the 6.4 guys will get tired of hearing about the 6.7.
Compared to my '08:
Towing enclosed trailers loaded to a max of 8K, I get a hand calc 11-12 running at 72. This includes starts and stops/lights/hills and extended miles. Transmission is more comfy than my '08, engine has a lot more power but it comes on very smooth so jerking around my load (tools and gear) is less of an issue.
Towing 36' 5er, triple axle cargo loaded to 17K:
I got 10.5 hand calc but it was only about 220 miles, half at 70, half on 55mph and less two lane highways, which is a lot harder on the MPG 'cause of all the stops and starts with that weight. At this weight load the engine has a noticeable big gain in power and smoothness. Getting going is effortless (even with the 3.55) and the turbo lag does not cause such a surge like I got with the 6.4. Just plain smooth. Transmission and overall stability is great but my '08 was very stable too.
I have 6800 miles on her and I can tow my trailers up to about 280 miles on a tank of fuel which is about 70 more than I could on the '08, and the tank is 26 gal vs. the 30 on my '08. Really going to save some cash for me.
Those are the results I would hope for.
Great info. I am sure one day I will trade up.
Another question is ease of working on the 6.7 compared to the 6.4 or even the 6.0. The 6.4 got more complicated to work on. Are we also going that route with the 6.7 or is it more user friendly for lack of a better term.
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"05 F-250, 6.0, CC, LB, 3.73, 4 X 2, Lariat, with coolant filter and Bilstein shocks, Magnefine p.s. filter, Ford fuel press. spring upgrade and ScanGauge ll. S. Ca.
"69 Mustang, Mach 1, 428 CJ, Ram Air, Stock
2007 FHLP H.D. Road King
2007 Thor Jazz 5er, 11k dry weight, 31'
173rd Abn. RVN.
Put 3.73's in your 6.4 your fuel economy will be as good as or better! Not all motor! Time will tell on towing
I don't know of any stock 6.4's with a 3.73 or 3.55 that can touch a 6.7 with any gears "unloaded" fuel economy! But sure it's not all engine that accounts for fuel economy, theres many functions that are accumalative to fuel economy.
EGR system is a "cartridge" style, unbolt the front cover and the whole unit is supposed to slide out, about the size of a shoe box (size 12 running shoe).
Turbo is also supposedly easily bolt on/off.
Glow plugs/injectors are accessible via the front of the motor and around the sides when you remove the front grille and radiators.
Heads/Downpipe/Oil pan/Engine removal is all possible once the front grille is removed, radiators, and the EGR and Intake system are removed. Cab off is not standard procedure.
Disclaimer: All this info is gleaned from the 6.7 Bible PDF thing and mostly from the diesel tech. at my dealer. He explained all this stuff to me when he got back from training, showed me all the components and the 4 thermostat cooling systems. Excuse me if I have anything confused.
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2011 F250 6.7 4X4 Lariat Ultimate FX4 3.55 ELock
Polk Audio component speakers, AFE Stage 7 intake
Sho Me Strobes, Shocker XL Horns, BakFlipG2
2 Kicker 10" subs, Rockford Fosgate amp
Ride-Rite air bags, VIAIR #10007 onboard air, AFE DPF back exhaust, power slot rotors/EBC pads, Nitto Trail Grapplers M/T 295/55 R20! Transfer-Flow 50 gal tank
EGR system is a "cartridge" style, unbolt the front cover and the whole unit is supposed to slide out, about the size of a shoe box (size 12 running shoe).
Turbo is also supposedly easily bolt on/off.
Glow plugs/injectors are accessible via the front of the motor and around the sides when you remove the front grille and radiators.
Heads/Downpipe/Oil pan/Engine removal is all possible once the front grille is removed, radiators, and the EGR and Intake system are removed. Cab off is not standard procedure.
Disclaimer: All this info is gleaned from the 6.7 Bible PDF thing and mostly from the diesel tech. at my dealer. He explained all this stuff to me when he got back from training, showed me all the components and the 4 thermostat cooling systems. Excuse me if I have anything confused.
That doesn't sound reassuring?
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"05 F-250, 6.0, CC, LB, 3.73, 4 X 2, Lariat, with coolant filter and Bilstein shocks, Magnefine p.s. filter, Ford fuel press. spring upgrade and ScanGauge ll. S. Ca.
"69 Mustang, Mach 1, 428 CJ, Ram Air, Stock
2007 FHLP H.D. Road King
2007 Thor Jazz 5er, 11k dry weight, 31'
173rd Abn. RVN.
Make no mistake about it. The 6.7 is more complex than the 6.4, 6.0, or 7.3. Ford did place items in better areas for maintenance, but it wont be as simple as working on the 7.3. It is more maintenance friendly than the 6.4 though.
I have 6800 miles on her and I can tow my trailers up to about 280 miles on a tank of fuel which is about 70 more than I could on the '08, and the tank is 26 gal vs. the 30 on my '08. Really going to save some cash for me.
Glad to hear it's living up to expectations, Joel! I've seen about a 20% improvement in MPG which seems to be right about what everyone else has noticed. You were right, though. Completely worth the extra $4K to get the 2011 over the 2010!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69cj
Another question is ease of working on the 6.7 compared to the 6.4 or even the 6.0. The 6.4 got more complicated to work on. Are we also going that route with the 6.7 or is it more user friendly for lack of a better term.
As Joel just posted this engine was designed to be easier to work on. It's a bit more complex but now we have a purpose-built pickup truck diesel engine rather than an International engine stuffed under the hood and made to fit. I think this is the biggest reason the Ford engineers were able to make it as complex as it is while designing it so it can be worked on without disassembling the entire truck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bounds-Electric
Put 3.73's in your 6.4 your fuel economy will be as good as or better! Not all motor! Time will tell on towing
I disagree. The 6.4L is badly inefficient due to the fact that the engine has to satisfy EPA and CARB NOX standards without an exhaust aftertreatment device to remove the NOX from the exhaust. So it has to happen in the engine which requires a huge amount of EGR as well as retarded(!) injection timing which decreases combustion temps as well as hinders power and efficiency.
Having a system in the exhaust that can handle the NOX allows the engine to use less EGR as well as better ignition timing and engine tuning for better efficiency. The 6.4L is a technological marvel but it has the big disadvantage of having to meet the EPA emissions requirements. The 6.7L adds lots of complexity to the exhaust system but is much more effective at meeting emissions targets without sacrificing efficiency!
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Still at the shipper's yard as of yesterday... I think if I didn't need to finish my degree in the next two months I would have come and gotten it myself already.
