how would i go about building a 7.3 v 10 killer
#31
07-30-2010, 04:51 PM
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Oh and Bill, you got my invitation to the drag strip already.. Bring that V10 out and see what it does. I will start in my Hi Idle setting if i need to(stock tune w/ 1200 RPM idle). LOL. Seriously though, it would be fun to see how a stock V10 would hang w/ an almost 400hp 7.3 w/ gobs of boost leaks. haha
#32
07-30-2010, 05:51 PM
Oh and Bill, you got my invitation to the drag strip already.. Bring that V10 out and see what it does. I will start in my Hi Idle setting if i need to(stock tune w/ 1200 RPM idle). LOL. Seriously though, it would be fun to see how a stock V10 would hang w/ an almost 400hp 7.3 w/ gobs of boost leaks. haha
I'll PM you when I'm able to do it.
#33
07-30-2010, 06:21 PM
not to keep poking the beast and being an instigator but, William as you bring up some great points unfortunately your wrong. the cummins has by far the cheapest injectors around. a 250hp set of sticks is like... half of the price compared to ours, a set of 238cc hybrids BREAK the bank on a PSD and getting a cummins with the same fuel is much easier on the wallet. NOW, if you want to talk about a crappy and brutal on the wallet issue...the Duraturd. we just sent ours in because i finally got pissed at the engine cutting out, started doing it at 160k miles and its at 300k now in our flatbed 5500 and it was diagnosed as the injectors being bad due to there design the wear and leak fuel pressure back into the oil pan or the tank in our case causing the computer to go into a safe mode and taking the Tow out of truck lol a STOCK injector for a dmax is 400$ per stick, 3200$ to replace all 8 injectors in that pig and 2000$ with 30 hour swap to do them.
http://www.puredieselpower.com/catalog/9498-valve-dynomite-diesel-75hp-stage-injectors-ddp2-p-360.html
unless thats per injector, then im horribly mistaken LOL
http://www.puredieselpower.com/catalog/9498-valve-dynomite-diesel-75hp-stage-injectors-ddp2-p-360.html
unless thats per injector, then im horribly mistaken LOL
#34
07-30-2010, 07:38 PM
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cool. It will be fun anyways even though your V10 is stock and won't be able to take on my truck, maybe i will bring the F-150 down for it instead of the PSD. You would stand a better chance against a lifted F-150 w/ a 5.0L @ ~350hp rather than my PSD by the time we get out there. by that time my PSD will be closer to 500hp i'm hopin'..
#35
07-30-2010, 10:49 PM
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not to keep poking the beast and being an instigator but, William as you bring up some great points unfortunately your wrong. the cummins has by far the cheapest injectors around. a 250hp set of sticks is like... half of the price compared to ours, a set of 238cc hybrids BREAK the bank on a PSD and getting a cummins with the same fuel is much easier on the wallet. NOW, if you want to talk about a crappy and brutal on the wallet issue...the Duraturd. we just sent ours in because i finally got pissed at the engine cutting out, started doing it at 160k miles and its at 300k now in our flatbed 5500 and it was diagnosed as the injectors being bad due to there design the wear and leak fuel pressure back into the oil pan or the tank in our case causing the computer to go into a safe mode and taking the Tow out of truck lol a STOCK injector for a dmax is 400$ per stick, 3200$ to replace all 8 injectors in that pig and 2000$ with 30 hour swap to do them.
http://www.puredieselpower.com/catalog/9498-valve-dynomite-diesel-75hp-stage-injectors-ddp2-p-360.html
unless thats per injector, then im horribly mistaken LOL
http://www.puredieselpower.com/catalog/9498-valve-dynomite-diesel-75hp-stage-injectors-ddp2-p-360.html
unless thats per injector, then im horribly mistaken LOL
I was HORRIFIED as to the cost of 6.0L injectors, I know we're talking 7.3L though and I didn't know exactly what they cost. I knew they were more expensive than the Cummins though, plus it only takes six.
I'll bet you're a Power Stroke man, I LIKE someone who can look at something objectively.
#36
07-30-2010, 10:52 PM
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He is saying you have 6 rods to distribute the same amount of power as the 8 rod v8 powerstroke.
Of course the parts have to be bigger.
If we want to brag up HEUI motors, just whip out a t-466. Oh yea baby.
IH inline 6, thats bigger than its 8 cylinder counterpart.
Eat it cummins. =)
The reason people swap cummins into fords is because ford has a good powertrain, and a good body, good frame.
Better steering gear up front as well. That outside the frame steering box was a great idea. NOT.
Maybe down in texas.
I love the Cummins, but to be honest. I've only rode in a select few dodge trucks that I liked.
The cummins is a higher compression engine than the PSD as well, it has a lot of bonuses, but its plagued by bad pumps and injectors. As well as insane injector costs. You can get a set of injectors for a PSD for half the price of a cummins.
I am always reminded of the story where they braged about the cummins when they put them up on dyno stands in the shop. Cummins, the old GMC Diesel (7.5 right? or was it 6.9...) and the 7.3 PSD.
The let them warm up, and then drained the oil while they were running.
Dodge bragged that the PSD was a piece of junk cause the PSD shut off almost immediately with no oil claiming it had froze up, but the inline 6 cummins 12 valve kept running for a good 40something minutes with no oil before freezing up.
Come on now, Why would I want to buy a truck from a company who spews this kinda BS? Cummins 12 valve is one of my fav motors, but really?
That PSD was froze up? Lets put oil back in all the motors and see which one starts up.
Oh yea, the PSD would be the only one.
Every county road commission mechanic I've talked to loves the PSD.
you know why?
The drivers never check the oil in the trucks. It saves more overhauls than any other system could.
No oil, no run.
I rode in a new 2008 cummins dually the other day.
i was pretty disappointed in it.
My 65 hp tune runs better in my truck than that truck did, newer, with only 40k miles on it. I'm hitting 300k.
Not enough oil for my big injectors, and my truck is faster? Come on. Lame.
Now, if you want to compare motor to motor to motor.
I don't like the duramax, mostly cause its built overseas by issuzu, but, they all have their bonuses and negatives.
The arguments all come from where they are installed.
And, screw all those motors anyways.
Get me a nice mercedes inline 4 diesel. Those suckers are pushing 160-180 hp. Drop that in an f150.. Oh man. Oh wait, f150's have 180 hp stock.
Damn that would be a nice truck.
I feel no luck for the new scorpion.
Plant is down in mexico.
I've worked with a lot of mexicans, and while I applaud them for their hard work, not all of them can be as sharp as Jose. I sure as hell wish they could all be. =( (I hope your not offended jose)
Of course the parts have to be bigger.
If we want to brag up HEUI motors, just whip out a t-466. Oh yea baby.
IH inline 6, thats bigger than its 8 cylinder counterpart.
Eat it cummins. =)
The reason people swap cummins into fords is because ford has a good powertrain, and a good body, good frame.
Better steering gear up front as well. That outside the frame steering box was a great idea. NOT.
Maybe down in texas.
I love the Cummins, but to be honest. I've only rode in a select few dodge trucks that I liked.
The cummins is a higher compression engine than the PSD as well, it has a lot of bonuses, but its plagued by bad pumps and injectors. As well as insane injector costs. You can get a set of injectors for a PSD for half the price of a cummins.
I am always reminded of the story where they braged about the cummins when they put them up on dyno stands in the shop. Cummins, the old GMC Diesel (7.5 right? or was it 6.9...) and the 7.3 PSD.
The let them warm up, and then drained the oil while they were running.
Dodge bragged that the PSD was a piece of junk cause the PSD shut off almost immediately with no oil claiming it had froze up, but the inline 6 cummins 12 valve kept running for a good 40something minutes with no oil before freezing up.
Come on now, Why would I want to buy a truck from a company who spews this kinda BS? Cummins 12 valve is one of my fav motors, but really?
That PSD was froze up? Lets put oil back in all the motors and see which one starts up.
Oh yea, the PSD would be the only one.
Every county road commission mechanic I've talked to loves the PSD.
you know why?
The drivers never check the oil in the trucks. It saves more overhauls than any other system could.
No oil, no run.
I rode in a new 2008 cummins dually the other day.
i was pretty disappointed in it.
My 65 hp tune runs better in my truck than that truck did, newer, with only 40k miles on it. I'm hitting 300k.
Not enough oil for my big injectors, and my truck is faster? Come on. Lame.
Now, if you want to compare motor to motor to motor.
I don't like the duramax, mostly cause its built overseas by issuzu, but, they all have their bonuses and negatives.
The arguments all come from where they are installed.
And, screw all those motors anyways.
Get me a nice mercedes inline 4 diesel. Those suckers are pushing 160-180 hp. Drop that in an f150.. Oh man. Oh wait, f150's have 180 hp stock.
Damn that would be a nice truck.
I feel no luck for the new scorpion.
Plant is down in mexico.
I've worked with a lot of mexicans, and while I applaud them for their hard work, not all of them can be as sharp as Jose. I sure as hell wish they could all be. =( (I hope your not offended jose)
That's what I thought too but I don't see how being heavier duty and getting as much power out of less displacement isn't better.
#37
07-30-2010, 11:14 PM
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HA. 12v does have more than one weak point slick... If you want to rep the cummins, go to cumminsforum. If your here to talk about how to make the PSD better, how to mod it, and how to build it then please, stick around. not trying to be an A$$, but a PSD can easily be made to handle big power if you got the $$$ and the block will not blow apart if it is tuned correctly. I have seen some 12v engine w/ windowed blocks too, just a matter of cylinder pressures. i can window a cummins block just like i can window a PSD block. i have seen a PSD crack the block and have seen a cummins blow a hole in the block. big deal, excessive cylinder pressure works wonders on an engine. The cummins is a good engine, as is the PSD, but we are here to talk PSDs, not cummins...
To the OP. It won't take much to get an early PSD to out run and out pull a V10. It's easy actually. a little injector swap, guages, intake, exhaust, FPR shim, and possibly an IC and HPOP to help with EGTs and your set. Can be done fairly cheap too!!
To the OP. It won't take much to get an early PSD to out run and out pull a V10. It's easy actually. a little injector swap, guages, intake, exhaust, FPR shim, and possibly an IC and HPOP to help with EGTs and your set. Can be done fairly cheap too!!
You can blow a hole in anything but it's going to take MORE to blow a hole in a Cummins.
I don't remember saying you'd have to be an idiot to own a PS. If I was on a GM site and they said that Power Strokes were a pile of crap and they'd seen a pile of them blown to hades and laying in the junkyard I'd defend them too.
Probably, like almost everyone on here, the Duramax would be my last choice for many reasons but like most everything else the truth is between the extremes. They're not junk and they're not perfect.
Out of all of MY knowlege and experience I'd put the Cummins on top. I've seen NOTHING with my own eyes to disuade me. I'm not going to go off of stories and hear-say.
I LOVE my IDIs. If I'd have just believed what the "conventional wisdom" was I'd have never gotten one. Ater all "everyone knows" that they are smoky, underpowered, hard-starting, battery eating, head-gasket-blowing boat anchors. BULL-CRAP!
I also never would have purchased my first PowerStroke, it was WAY better than I expected.
Now as to the 6.0L? I think they are worse than their poor reputation, in MY experience. I'm sure if you bought one new and KNEW how to take care of it you could probably get by.
I absolutely DON'T agree that the PS is better and I won't appologize for or back down from saying so. I don't expect anyone else to back off of their choice either but facts are a lot more usefull to everyone.
#38
07-31-2010, 08:08 AM
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I agree that both have flaws. The cost to build the cummins is much cheaper. The cummins was orignally designed for a medium duty app. Id love to build up a cummins in an OBS ford. I loved my IDI and I so far really like my PS. Its the dodge i have the problem with. If ford had gotten the cummins engine. Dodge would be out of buisness. The strokes are great but the limitations are lower on a light duty engine. The key factor is fuel. No fuel no power. The cummins has fuel stock so more power easily which is why people like them so well. But the stroke has potential it just cost a little more. I like both, it just depends on the application.
#39
07-31-2010, 11:41 AM
If you don't want to be an @$$; don't call me slick. I've never heard slick as a term of endearment.
You can blow a hole in anything but it's going to take MORE to blow a hole in a Cummins.
I don't remember saying you'd have to be an idiot to own a PS. If I was on a GM site and they said that Power Strokes were a pile of crap and they'd seen a pile of them blown to hades and laying in the junkyard I'd defend them too.
Probably, like almost everyone on here, the Duramax would be my last choice for many reasons but like most everything else the truth is between the extremes. They're not junk and they're not perfect.
Out of all of MY knowlege and experience I'd put the Cummins on top. I've seen NOTHING with my own eyes to disuade me. I'm not going to go off of stories and hear-say.
I LOVE my IDIs. If I'd have just believed what the "conventional wisdom" was I'd have never gotten one. Ater all "everyone knows" that they are smoky, underpowered, hard-starting, battery eating, head-gasket-blowing boat anchors. BULL-CRAP!
I also never would have purchased my first PowerStroke, it was WAY better than I expected.
Now as to the 6.0L? I think they are worse than their poor reputation, in MY experience. I'm sure if you bought one new and KNEW how to take care of it you could probably get by.
I absolutely DON'T agree that the PS is better and I won't appologize for or back down from saying so. I don't expect anyone else to back off of their choice either but facts are a lot more usefull to everyone.
You can blow a hole in anything but it's going to take MORE to blow a hole in a Cummins.
I don't remember saying you'd have to be an idiot to own a PS. If I was on a GM site and they said that Power Strokes were a pile of crap and they'd seen a pile of them blown to hades and laying in the junkyard I'd defend them too.
Probably, like almost everyone on here, the Duramax would be my last choice for many reasons but like most everything else the truth is between the extremes. They're not junk and they're not perfect.
Out of all of MY knowlege and experience I'd put the Cummins on top. I've seen NOTHING with my own eyes to disuade me. I'm not going to go off of stories and hear-say.
I LOVE my IDIs. If I'd have just believed what the "conventional wisdom" was I'd have never gotten one. Ater all "everyone knows" that they are smoky, underpowered, hard-starting, battery eating, head-gasket-blowing boat anchors. BULL-CRAP!
I also never would have purchased my first PowerStroke, it was WAY better than I expected.
Now as to the 6.0L? I think they are worse than their poor reputation, in MY experience. I'm sure if you bought one new and KNEW how to take care of it you could probably get by.
I absolutely DON'T agree that the PS is better and I won't appologize for or back down from saying so. I don't expect anyone else to back off of their choice either but facts are a lot more usefull to everyone.
Travis knows as much or more than you about cummins.
The cummins is a great engine. Just the people who drive them are usually the problem.
I agree that both have flaws. The cost to build the cummins is much cheaper. The cummins was orignally designed for a medium duty app. Id love to build up a cummins in an OBS ford. I loved my IDI and I so far really like my PS. Its the dodge i have the problem with. If ford had gotten the cummins engine. Dodge would be out of buisness. The strokes are great but the limitations are lower on a light duty engine. The key factor is fuel. No fuel no power. The cummins has fuel stock so more power easily which is why people like them so well. But the stroke has potential it just cost a little more. I like both, it just depends on the application.
The PSD is a HEUI motor. Its just safer and more reliable in all technicality.
A few dollars into it, just like a cummins, and you have a truck that runs good, and performs well. If you want to go with big power, even vs a V10, its not hard. Just when your talking about 400+ HP out of a PSD and a cummins, your talking more money for the PSD at that range than a cummins. 12 valve is one of my favorite engines. But, just like any motor, it has flaws. 3800 was one of the best motors buick ever made, most people dont know it had a weak crank and weak pushrods either until the last few years of it being made. So, if its so great, why stop making it? Oh yea, gotta go with something different. Doh! just like a 350. or a 351. Great motors. Why stop making them?
Dodge would be nothing with out cummins, they'd have nothing. They had to bring back the Hemi just to get business. Finally they figured out to put interior in their vehicles after 60something years of crappy interiors. I've smoked hemi dodges on the high way. The only advantage they have is a new truck and not 300k worth of wear on the parts they are rolling on.
I've seen some badass cummins, but, if you talk to a lot of cummins guys, the only reason they have a dodge, is because of the motor.
So, out of all the diesel's ive seen and operated.
Cat and IH.
Why?
Oh, I duno, probably all the diesel equipment out there that I've ran thats over 30 years old. Most never overhauled either.
Oh wait, did they put cummins in tractors? Oh yea, not to many.
And the cummins in large equipment is no where near like the stuff in the dodge pickup.
It's just like the Alison trans behind the duramax, its a weak version of the real product.
So, to the OP. If you want to make your PSD go faster than a v10, Spend a bit of money, and your good to go. It's not hard to do any of the work, and you really don't need many tools until you put in an IC. All i've had to go out and buy for all my mods is a prybar and a dead blow hammer.
All the rest of the tools were in a basic tool set I've had forever.
The info to do this stuff is all here. most of us here are not driving stock trucks.
Cept Superduty4x4. *poke*
Messin with ya chase.
The only real problem I've heard of with the v10's is the piston slap issue as well.
That eventually goes away. Not sure whats up with that.
#40
07-31-2010, 02:19 PM
What does 400 crank HP cost out of an early 7.3? About $2,000?
#41
07-31-2010, 03:54 PM
This is one of those never ending arguments.
Each engine has it's place and following.
5.9 Cummins, not my ideal style of engine for a pickup.
No I have never driven a heavily modded Cummins, but I have driven plenty of close to stock ones.
I see little difference in power or mileage from a Power Stroke if they are both driven the same way.
Duramax, not my style of engine period.
V10, also not what I am looking for from a pickup engine.
Might be great for a sports car, but not a truck.
460, I could never afford the gas for one of them.
Again a race car would be a better application for them.
5.4, what power?
I know, turbo it, drop it in a car and it would be a fine engine.
Just my opinions.
As long as we all use our vehicles for different things, there is no ideal cookie cutter best engine.
Guess that is why we have so many car and truck manufacturers with so many engine choices.
What would make the PSD a V10 killer?
Are we looking at MPG numbers?
HP numbers?
Torque numbers?
How many miles it lasts?
How much it costs to maintain?
Or some other variable?
Again each of the above have a different value to each person.
So there is no best for everyone in every instance.
Each engine has it's place and following.
5.9 Cummins, not my ideal style of engine for a pickup.
No I have never driven a heavily modded Cummins, but I have driven plenty of close to stock ones.
I see little difference in power or mileage from a Power Stroke if they are both driven the same way.
Duramax, not my style of engine period.
V10, also not what I am looking for from a pickup engine.
Might be great for a sports car, but not a truck.
460, I could never afford the gas for one of them.
Again a race car would be a better application for them.
5.4, what power?
I know, turbo it, drop it in a car and it would be a fine engine.
Just my opinions.
As long as we all use our vehicles for different things, there is no ideal cookie cutter best engine.
Guess that is why we have so many car and truck manufacturers with so many engine choices.
What would make the PSD a V10 killer?
Are we looking at MPG numbers?
HP numbers?
Torque numbers?
How many miles it lasts?
How much it costs to maintain?
Or some other variable?
Again each of the above have a different value to each person.
So there is no best for everyone in every instance.
#42
07-31-2010, 04:11 PM
I thought it was more in the 280 range.
You could get 400 HP out of a 7.3 for about 1,500 to 2,000
Depends on how much work you wanna do, or if you want to buy kits.
Really only need an IC, stage 2's and a bigger oil pump. If you know who to call and how to do the work, its easy.
With a Super Duty, would be much easier, IC is already there, and electric fuel is already going to the bowl.
It's all in the gearing and the driver too when it comes to racing. =)
I used to smoke grand prix with my 91 Nite. No mods. Just good rear end and poor shifting and good driving.
#43
07-31-2010, 04:15 PM
Hotshot
My opinion on engines for trucks fwiw is just like Dave's from top to bottom.
#44
07-31-2010, 05:22 PM