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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2010, 10:20 AM
mrad mrad is offline
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Originally Posted by TXSailor View Post
Well from all appearance, it looks like temps run 20 to 25 degrees below where they were running but I have limited mileage experience to base that upon. It's been low 90's here and tranny temps show 60 to 70 degrees above that under normal loads/conditions. Those highway temps are typically 145 to 160.

Around town the temps are a bit higher 150 to 165 (this was the peak so far) with stop and go driving but sitting at traffic lights the tranny cools off much faster than it did.

Just sitting and idleing for a long period after mixed driving, it settles doiwn to 135 and stays there (again outside temps are 90+ but under 95).

Still trying to get the fluid level adjusted up slowly as I am on the "low side" of hot right now. Will report back after some towing time later next month.

An interesting side effect (which my be my imagination) is that the Engine oil temps seem a bit lower (not much maybe 5 to 6 degrees but there). I suspect it may be due to better air flow through the radiator as a result of the higher Tranny Cooler and less turbulance betwwen the AC Condensor and Intercooler. And perhaps the Tranny is "soaking" up a bit more of the engine heat- who knows.

D
Interesting. We left Minneapolis on July 31st heading to Michigans U.P pulling a 6,000lb TT. My Tranny temps have been running around 188-191 most of the time. I did hit 208 for a brief period in the porcupines. Temps have been in the mid 80's. It seems like it takes a while for the temps to come down, even when I am coasting down hill. I will have to look into the 6.0 cooler when I get back.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2010, 10:32 AM
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I can highly reccomend it as a good "mod". It's been running in the high 90's and into the low 100's here in Houston the last week and I did see the Tranny hit 171 in the Traffic. As soon as we started movning again, the emps started to drop off. That appears to be a good sign it works.

Before the install, I did see much the same results as you have had. Mostly about 185 to 190 and I hit 205 once or twice in the Tx Hills west of Austin.

I'm headed over to Choke Canyon State Park in a couple of weeks (South end of TX Hill Country) and will give an update after that trip. I'll have better data as this will put about 750 miles of towing behind me since the mod.

D.
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TXSailor View Post
...An interesting side effect (which my be my imagination) is that the Engine oil temps seem a bit lower (not much maybe 5 to 6 degrees but there). I suspect it may be due to better air flow through the radiator as a result of the higher Tranny Cooler and less turbulance betwwen the AC Condensor and Intercooler. And perhaps the Tranny is "soaking" up a bit more of the engine heat- who knows.
D:

I have a question - doesn't the hot tranny fluid leave the transmission, then goes through the air cooler, and then into the radiator where a liquid/liquid heat exchange takes place (lower radiator fluid/"precooled" tranny fluid)? Just wondering, 'cause on previous Ford products that I traced out this is what happened.

Also, a buddy of mine has a 2004 F-350 6.0, and I could almost swear that the cooler (he has the 26 row) was mounted behind the air dam of the bumper - about where the breaker bar is on the Excursions.

Nothing like talking to someone who has actually done the modification - thanks for posting your experience.
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:40 PM
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...For those of you who added a tranny cooler, did you mount it in front of the AC condenser? Any suggestions on a brand of cooler? I looked at the 6.0 diesel cooler but would like to find something a little less expensive.
Help with a question, please.

On the two pass cooler below - the one at an angle just above the breaker bar - is that the Power steering cooler? If not, then what?? - Aux oil cooler???

Click the image to open in full size.


While we are on the subject of tranny coolers, below is a picture of a 9 pass (bottom) as opposed to a 31 pass (upper).


Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 08-05-2010, 03:07 PM
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Old 08-05-2010, 03:13 PM
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I am unclear as to the need for additional transmission oil cooling on (well, in my case, the V-10 powered) the X.

I would be surprised if very many of you have as severe operating conditions as I do - both trailers that I tow weigh around 11,000 lbs.

I go from the high country of northern Arizona, west across the Mojave desert - this involves changes in altitudes of over 6,000 ft near Seligman, to the brutal heat of the Needles area - involving long steady up-hill grades.

I have yet to have either the water or trans. oil temp. gauges move.

I take that back - when we first got the vehicle, an oil line failed (Monday Morning Production ?) because someone hadnt put a clamp on the oil cooler line, and it blew off, causing a rather sudden and dramatic over-temp. and obvious failure. So I know those guages work ! (FoMoCo. "ate" about a five grand bill from my dealer)

So - again, not clear why you'd want to mess with the obviously more-than-adequate stock tranny oil cooling system
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:19 AM
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OK. Please keep in mind I am an "un-qualified" Expert. I am not a Ford Engineer nor even a reliable "shade tree" mechanic so I speak from my own expereince and what I have read.

First, on the 7.3L that I have, the Tranny fluid does go to the Air to Air heat exchanger frist and then to the Liquid to Liquid cololer (rad) and then back to the Tranny. It is mounted BEHIND the AC Condesor and INFRONT of the Intercooler. It is a bolt in replacement for the standard 7.3L trans cooler.

Second - The V10's came with a larger tranny cooler than the 7.3L (Don't know why). The smaller one shown in the picture below (with the connections on one side) looks like a standard 7.3L cooler. I beleive there are those that have used the V10 cooler as an alternative to the 6.0L cooler in a 7.3L installation.

Third - two different coolers were used on the 6.0. There was a 26 row (or something like that) and a 31 row. I opted for the 31 row since I found one off e-bay brand new for roughly half the retail price delivered and significantly cheaper than a new one at wholesale. They are also available used but IO have an adversion to used cooler since they could have come off a "blown" tranny and be less than celan on the inside.


Info for what it's worth only (it's free so the value may be zero (0).

D.
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:26 AM
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One addtional comment for 6686L (and any others). remember just MHO

The guages on my EX dash for Oil Temp and Trans Temp are almost worthless for PREVENTATIVE use. They do move very slowly but I can tell you when my Trans was at 210+ (before the cooler) the guage said I was fine and everything was "normal". Most experts agree that elevated temps of the ATF hasten Transmission failure dramatically. Ideal temp is 175 or less. The guage on the dash will only show you as "high or Hot" when the temp hits 225+ (too late for me as the damage has been done).

The engine Oil temp is much the same. I like to see the real number and not just a "relative" guage. The data is there on the ODBII port or with external probes.

D
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:44 AM
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[quote=87mh;9187701]Help with a question, please.

On the two pass cooler below - the one at an angle just above the breaker bar - is that the Power steering cooler? If not, then what?? - Aux oil cooler???

Click the image to open in full size.

That is the power steering cooler, just had to replace a line on that...
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:49 PM
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PS cooler.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TXSailor View Post
One addtional comment for 6686L (and any others). remember just MHO

The guages on my EX dash for Oil Temp and Trans Temp are almost worthless. . . . They do move very slowly . . . . . Ideal temp is 175 or less. The guage on the dash will only show you as "high or Hot" when the temp hits 225+ (too late for me as the damage has been done).

The engine Oil temp is much the same. I like to see the real number and not just a "relative" guage. The data is there on the ODBII port or with external probes.

D
I can't comment on earlier and/or diesel Ford products. I can tell you that both the water temp. and trans. oil temp. gauges on my late production '05 (my understanding is mine was built about two weeks before termination!) act instantaneously, and most certainly ARE "graduated".

I would NOT be surprised that a diesel oil cooler would be slightly smaller. Bear in mind a diesel motor is far more efficient than our "gassers"; meaning, it produces much less heat (translation - wastes much less energy!). Those of you who live in colder climates know how much longer (if ever) your diesel-powered motors get their cooling water hot enough to give you real toasty cabin heat, then us "gassers" - again, because of the less efficient gasoline motor wasting all that fuel as heat, we get nice hot air out of our heaters within three or four minutes.

No question that the lower you keep your trans. oil temp., the longer the thing is going to last. If you diesel fellows have found out that Ford's engineering screwed up as to your transmission's cooling capacity, then of course i would agree that additional oil cooling capacity is needed.
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Old 08-07-2010, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6686L View Post
I would be surprised if very many of you have as severe operating conditions as I do - both trailers that I tow weigh around 11,000 lbs.

I go from the high country of northern Arizona, west across the Mojave desert - this involves changes in altitudes of over 6,000 ft near Seligman, to the brutal heat of the Needles area - involving long steady up-hill grades.

So - again, not clear why you'd want to mess with the obviously more-than-adequate stock tranny oil cooling system
My understanding is that for moving conditions, you are right but what happens when you are in stop and go traffic?
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Old 08-07-2010, 03:52 PM
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My understanding is that for moving conditions, you are right but what happens when you are in stop and go traffic?
= = = = = = = =

Think of an automatic transmission as a hydraulic pump. The oil in the transmission is the "medium" that transfers energy in the form of mechanical force, from the engine, to the out-put shaft of your vehicle.

Obviously, the more force (energy) you apply to the oil, the more heat is applied, thus the need for an oil cooler.

Stop & go driving rarely involves more than VERY mild throttle openings, thus relatively little power is pushed thru the oil. Compare that with a long up-grade, where the motor is applying considerable power to the transmission, which may be up and down-shifting as needed.

Bottom line - stop-and-go driving puts less energy into the transmission oil than full or nearly full power operations on long grades.

When coming into the coastal areas of Southern Californicated, we come in on I-40, which becomes (as you head west thru Barstow) the I-15. More up-grades out of Barstow heading south towards Victorville. We turn west on Calif. State Highway 18 at Victorville. There are a couple of miles there where the "stop-and-go" seems to take forever. Now, we've just come off a high-speed Interstate, and the air temp. is over 110. Totally "heat-soaked". Now we have that "stop-and-go" traffic you asked about. Yet to see our oil or water temp. gauges move as a result.

From your "post", it appears you have made a number of "mods" to your Ex. I am not going to make any snide remarks about folks who try and live thru their vehicles. But you can probably tell from the tone of my responses, I really dont see the point in monkeying around with a vehicle unless it is to accomplish specific technical objective/create a glaring fault.
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Old 08-07-2010, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 6686L View Post
Stop & go driving rarely involves more than VERY mild throttle openings, thus relatively little power is pushed thru the oil. Compare that with a long up-grade, where the motor is applying considerable power to the transmission, which may be up and down-shifting as needed.

Bottom line - stop-and-go driving puts less energy into the transmission oil than full or nearly full power operations on long grades.

When coming into the coastal areas of Southern Californicated, we come in on I-40, which becomes (as you head west thru Barstow) the I-15. More up-grades out of Barstow heading south towards Victorville. We turn west on Calif. State Highway 18 at Victorville. There are a couple of miles there where the "stop-and-go" seems to take forever. Now, we've just come off a high-speed Interstate, and the air temp. is over 110. Totally "heat-soaked". Now we have that "stop-and-go" traffic you asked about. Yet to see our oil or water temp. gauges move as a result.

From your "post", it appears you have made a number of "mods" to your Ex. I am not going to make any snide remarks about folks who try and live thru their vehicles. But you can probably tell from the tone of my responses, I really dont see the point in monkeying around with a vehicle unless it is to accomplish specific technical objective/create a glaring fault.
I do agree with your analysis but question if you have forgotten about the air coming thru the front of the truck. While you may say that I have less energy going thru the trans and less heat in stop and go traffic, the cooler is there to have air cooling the oil. Less air, less cooling. More surface area, more cooling.

So how do you explain that I am running cooler with the 6.0 cooler? In stock tune, I can get 75 above ambient but with the larger cooler, I get 55 above? This is in stop and go traffic.

Well, some of us believe that Ford spared no expense to give us the best possible truck. Others believe that Ford would cut certain corners. I am in the latter group. Or do you think that they made a larger cooler for the 6.0 trucks because they got some killer deal on the larger cooler?
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Old 08-07-2010, 08:43 PM
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I do agree with your analysis
Outstanding ! I like it when folks agree with me. I know..i know..it is hard to make a selection as to which of my characteristics is the most loveable..my sweet disposition..my charm...my incredible intelligence...?

Again, i have a gasoline-powered Excursion. I have never driven a diesel-powered Excursion. I have NO idea what their design criteria as to cooling systems and their capabilities was, and how, if at all, it differs from my V-10.

I do not have the technical competence to comment further on your post. All I can tell you is that "bone stock" (with the exception of the obvious suspension mods) my V-10 has served me well under fairly severe conditions.

I do know that every time we go somewhere in our gas EX, sooner or later I get into a situation on a grade where one of you damn diesel guys pulling a load probably nearly as heavy as mine, goes sailing by me like I am standing still. This has caused my "you-know-what" to shrink to such an extent that my wife now calls me "Shorty"....
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Old 08-07-2010, 08:43 PM
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