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2003 F150 5.4 Codes PO172/PO175

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Old 07-19-2010, 12:12 PM
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2003 F150 5.4 Codes PO172/PO175

My truck is supercharged. I have had the supercharger on for a while now. These codes just showed up!
After reviewing the codes I cleaned MAF which is a couple months old, replaced vac lines. I then reset the check engine light. After I started the engine i could barely keep it running, it was running way rich. My wideband AF gauge was reading 10. Once my engine light came back on it went back to 14.6 AF. The PO172/PO175 codes are back. Now if i reset the light it will do all this again. Please Help.
 
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:08 PM
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Since you have a non-stock mod, I don't know what your setup is.
The codes are saying the fuel tables are shifted to their most lean setting trying to counter a rich running condition.
With a super charger, you must have a fuel system that raises fuel feed/ pressure/volume in "some manner" when the super charger goes into 'boost'.
First thing is to do checks to see what fuel hardware may cause the condition.
Is it a two pipe requlator system that has gone faulty etc.? Raised the presure to far etc.?
If your A/F gauge showed the condition cleared, it must be intermittant.
You either have to learn about your mod or have a knowledgable shop trouble shoot it.
One thing I can say for sure, don't run the motor if a lean condition developes or you risk melting a piston, under boost conditions..
Normally in a non blown engine, these codes would indicate an air leak in the intake.
Be sure the OX sensors are working. If disconnected, the PCM uses fixed 'rich tables as a substitute until the OX sensors have been restored to operational control.
But under blower conditions, an intake leak is somewhat unlikely because you would have a problem obtaining/maintaining intake manifold pressure under boost conditions.
Clearing codes dosn't fix anything but only a way to clear old history and see if the fault is still present.
Good luck.
 
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:46 PM
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I do know that the fuel tables were messed with while getting Dyno tested. They were running rich under WOT. So the tables were leaned out all across the board. so i just got done sitting up another dyno appointment tomorrow to see if we can fix this issue. I will keep you posted on the results.
it is just wierd that when the engine light comes on the truck goes to normal AFR. if i reset the light then start it lot of black smoke until the light comes back on then AFR is ok again. I will let you know what we find out.
Thanks
 
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:08 PM
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You pretty much answered what is going on.
If the tables were altered in software to lean out the fuel, then when the PCM further leans them, the codes are set as it applies to both banks.
What your shop needs to do is not try too get around the issue by altering just the tables but address the issue by changes in hardware and fueling with maybe a small shift in fuel tables so the tables stay within limits..
Hardware changes may include injector size change and / or fuel pressure changes by including an adjustable fuel pressure regulator or boost sensitive fuel pressue control.
The aim being to balance the fuel delivery for the whole range of operation.
When you clear the codes, you center the tables up again until they shift again causing the codes.
Good luck.
 
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:41 PM
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i went back to ground zero and I put the old tune that i had in the truck before and i never had any problem with it, it was just limited to what i could do.
for some reason the truck keeps going into open loop and just stays in open loop until i get a check engine light then it closes. i could see it in open loop for a few seconds during cold start and during WOT operation.
any idea on why this may be happening?
 
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:48 PM
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This will be somewhat a long post but you and others need to know some basic info on blower motor applications.
First the motor HP is of known design, that dictates the size of the stock fuel injectors with some reserve to cover the worst case power demands.
The fuel tables control the injector pulsewidth to allow the correct fuel amount to be injected under max power.
If you add forced induction, the HP increase must be met with enough extra fuel without going lean.
As above, you see that injector size and fuel table setting must match or you have an issue at some point.
Normally just altering the fuel tables is not enough to cover the whole power range when a blower in on board.
A 'rule of thumb' is for every 1 psi of blower pressure you could expect about 15 to 18 hp increase (depending on how efficient the head ports flow air). That would mean with 6 psi boost, you could expect 6 x 18+/- hp = about 108 hp total (example).
Back to injector size; you must know how much HP any injector size will support under it's rated fuel rail pressure ( one injector rating x 8). An injector size increase that will feed the amount of boost plus, is in order on any motor.
This would be the baseline for hardare.
Now a trim of fuel tables is next in line and can only be done by a tuner that takes all this into consideration and does dyno runs to zero in on the requiremnts
Once again, you are unlikely to satisfy these requirements with just fuel table alterations. It is probable that larger injectors would work better than altering fuel tables but both are really needed to make the best running setup both out of boost and with max boost..
The type of blower also has special requirement in software tuning.
For example, a positive displacemnt type needs more fuel at low RPM vs a Centrifigal type that comes into boost at higher RPM such that the fuel curve needs to match the type of blower.
Your tuner should know of these relationships and make the hardware and software changes to meet the full range of power generation.
If not, you will continue to have issues.
Again, altering the tables from their design center puts the tables near one end of their design range such that only a little more shift puts them outside and causes codes to be set because the diagnostic program that monitors them sees the 'fall out' and 'logics' it a fault.
If you clear the codes or the motor operation causes a shift back, it brings the tables back into range until they fall out again.
Good luck with you setup.
 
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