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  #16  
Old 07-13-2010, 11:27 PM
Boport Boport is offline
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Finally got the heads back on the bench and some new flow numbers. I was expecting/hoping for more on the exhaust. We are still at about a 55% flow ratio which is poo-poo IMO, all the intake flow in the world wont make a difference if you can't get it out. I really don't think there is a whole lot more left for improvement in the exhaust port without opening up the cross sectional area and I'm not really interested in blowing into a water jacket to find out how much further they can go! Based off the flow characteristics of the port it could definitely use some more curtain area which a larger valve would provide. I am thinking the most realistic option at this point to further increase flow up to a respectable amount is to jump up to 1.76" exhaust valves, which means more than likely new valve seats as well. No big deal, but an extra cost to the job. We will see if the gains from the larger valve are worth it. I am also going to upgrade the intake valves to a 2.19" to try and harness some of the port's current high lift flow capabilities at a realistic valve lift. We will see soon! Here are the specs again and current results:

F3TE casting (EFI) Stock/Ported.
Stock 2.09" IN / 1.65" EX valves (intake back-cut 30*)
28" H2O depression
1/2" clay radius on intake, no pipe on exhaust
4.25" test bore
SF600 flow bench calibration

Intake Flow Data:

Valve Lift---Stock IN Flow---Ported IN Flow
.100"------------58.2----------69.9
.200"------------122.3---------132.3
.300"------------176.4---------198.5
.400"------------214.7---------250.4
.500"------------240.6---------274.0
.600"------------249.7---------284.2


Exhaust Flow Data:

Valve Lift---Stock EX Flow---Ported EX Flow
.100"-----------44.7------------45.9
.200"-----------85.8------------86.4
.300"-----------109.9----------115.6
.400"-----------124.4----------136.6
.500"-----------133.4----------150.8
.600"-----------141.8 ---------159.1

Click the image to open in full size.
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  #17  
Old 07-16-2010, 05:17 PM
RRISDON RRISDON is offline
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460 Head flow

I have a 1992 460 that has 204,000 miles on it that I will be overhauling in the next couple years. I am going to install F3TE heads on it at that time and was wondering what it would cost to build a set like what you are doing. I have already done the same mods as you along with headers and a bigger cam so I want to upgrade the heads next
Thanks for the info
Richard
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  #18  
Old 07-20-2010, 05:59 PM
Boport Boport is offline
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Spent the afternoon and into the evening on and off the flow bench finally getting some decent results out of the exhaust. The port REALLY responded to the big 1.80" valve, and some fine tuning of the port brought even more flow than I was expecting. I'm really happy with the exhaust results and the current intake to exhaust flow ratio. Here's the current exhaust flow with the new oversized valve compared to stock and stock valve ported numbers:

Valve Lift---Stock EX Flow---Ported EX Flow---Ported w/1.80" valve
.100"-----------44.7-------------45.9----------------62.4
.200"-----------85.8-------------86.4---------------111.8
.300"-----------109.9-----------115.6---------------142.4
.400"-----------124.4-----------136.6---------------169.4
.500"-----------133.4-----------150.8---------------188.6
.600"-----------141.8 ----------159.1---------------200.2

Bo
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  #19  
Old 07-20-2010, 05:59 PM
Boport Boport is offline
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Here are some pics of the Ferrea oversized valves compared to stock and some pics fitted into the chamber. Notice the profile shot of the exhaust valves side by side, the steep 25* under head angle is something I think was key to picking up flow with this port shape, in addition to the head diameter increase. I also spent some more time this morning on the intake side re-working the short side radius and netted some additional flow, will post final flow results of these heads shortly.

Intake valve comparison:

Exhaust valve comparison:

Exhaust valve under head shape:

Machined seat pocket for oversized valve seat:

Chamber close up with oversized valves installed:
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  #20  
Old 07-20-2010, 06:06 PM
Boport Boport is offline
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Here are the final flow results from stock to ported with oversized valves.

--------------Intake Flow---------------------
Valve Lift---Stock IN Flow---Ported w/2.19" valve
.100"------------58.2---------------71.8
.200"------------122.3--------------148.5
.300"------------176.4--------------214.7
.400"------------214.7--------------265.9
.500"------------240.6--------------292.3
.600"------------249.7--------------300.4
.700"-------------N/A---------------307.5

--------Exhaust Flow-No pipe used-------------
Valve Lift---Stock EX Flow---Ported w/1.80" valve
.100"-----------44.7----------------62.4
.200"-----------85.8----------------111.8
.300"-----------109.9---------------142.4
.400"-----------124.4---------------169.4
.500"-----------133.4---------------188.6
.600"-----------141.8---------------200.2
.700"------------N/A----------------206.0

Some notes along the way for those that may be interested:
If going to the oversized 1.80" exhaust valve, you will need to remove the factory exhaust seats in these heads and install an oversized replacement to properly fit the increased diameter of the valve. The valve seats we used were SBI brand, part# 1875-0. These seats are 1.875" diameter and 3/8" deep, and safely fit into the castings without hitting water. Valve part numbers we used were Ferrea #F5037 (Intake) and #F6209 (exhaust).

The majority of the flow gains above on the intake side were achieved by the following (first being the most effective, last being least amount effective):

1. Properly re-shaping the short side radius
2. General blending of the rest of the bowl
3. Valve diameter increase
4. 30* back cut angle on valve to lap line
5. Multi-angle valve seat shape (R-30-45-60-70)
6. General port clean-up (profiling guide boss, smoothing casting- no major cross-sectional area increases or gasket matching)

The majority of the flow gains above on the exhaust side were achieved by the following (first being the most effective, last being least amount effective):

1. Valve diameter size increase and shape
2. Properly re-shaping the short side radius
3. Re-shaping of the port (material removed from roof and sides of port to increase volume and straighten flow path
4. Blending of bowl
5. Unshrouding of valve in the chamber
5. Machining radius profile valve seat
6. General port clean-up (profiling guide boss, smoothing casting)

Port dimensions and locations at entrances have not been modified, so save the gasket matching for some small block chebbies. I will keep you updated with our progress, should have the heads hopefully on the truck some time next week and ready for the dyno.
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  #21  
Old 07-21-2010, 06:49 PM
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Awesome work! Can't wait to see dyno results!!
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  #22  
Old 07-27-2010, 09:19 PM
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I have a '97 F-250HD with a 7.5L (460) automatic/ 4.10s that tows a heavy trailer to the track most weekends, and am very interested in any power gains you can find!!!

I 'd also like to hear what i can do with an emission-legal exhaust, too! Gibson shorties, dual 3" catalysts, and 3" duals w/ 2-1/2" tailpipes maybe???
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  #23  
Old 08-03-2010, 12:11 PM
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  #24  
Old 08-03-2010, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boport View Post
Hey thanks you are welcome. You guys have data based a lot of good info here that I have used so its my turn to contribute. Hell if this doesn't work there is always the blower option . If you can find one....
hi boport;; you are definately on the right track.. the exhaust side of a 460 head is very slow,but i really think it is due to valve sizing.. port 'shape' would really work in the higher rpm's.. if you are going to tow with it,i would limit my rpm's to about 4000.. a 1.76 valve in the exhaust wouldn't hurt anything,i don' think,,if you are going to keep the rpm's low i would put a 2.19intake valve in and clean up the curve.. i relly don' think you can port the exhaust too big..also a cam with a close lobe center and an extremely long duration[comp cams 'thumper'] would help,,i know you are limited with the fuel injection,but if you are going to keep it,try an eagle 4.5 stroker kit and watch your torque jump off the sheet,,buy the way i have seen a 1975 460 stock take a 1050 dominator and run just fine [except for the black smoke] good luck,thanx for the pics crabbo
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  #25  
Old 08-10-2010, 09:26 PM
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Subscribing...

Mainly because Bo is a friend of mine and I know his knowledge is worth alot. You all are very lucky to have him sharing... I have tried to get him back into the diesel world but he jut wont do it... LOL
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  #26  
Old 08-10-2010, 10:27 PM
Boport Boport is offline
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Hey Nolan! Thanks for the nice words, I still got a soft spot in my heart for the diesels but as as you know I like to go the "different" route on occasion

Heads are back on the truck, but have been slammed with work in the shop the last week so haven't had time to wrap this thing up and get it back on the dyno yet. Still chipping away at it as time allows. You know how it goes, work comes first, play comes second...

Stay tuned!
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  #27  
Old 08-11-2010, 12:29 AM
mjp_t98 mjp_t98 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boport View Post
Heads are back on the truck, but have been slammed with work in the shop the last week so haven't had time to wrap this thing up and get it back on the dyno yet. Still chipping away at it as time allows. You know how it goes, work comes first, play comes second...

Stay tuned!
How are you planning to recalibrate the ECU for the volumetric efficiency improvements?
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  #28  
Old 08-11-2010, 12:48 AM
Boport Boport is offline
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I am installing an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and we will see how far than takes me. If upping the fuel pressure screws up the rest of the fuel curve too much a custom chip will be in order. I really don't know what to expect, this is a dignificant increase in VE and we will be keeping an eye on A/F ratio on the dyno and see what happens. Or, maybe we will find the factory exhaust manifolds are holding all this new airflow in and we only pick up 5hp... the dyno and wideband 02 will tell the story.
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  #29  
Old 08-11-2010, 07:48 AM
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william.a.vose
Very good information. Too bad your clear across the country from me. I am working on an MAF, SEFI conversion on my 86. I have the F3TE heads for it and will be running a torque cam. Since mine is an over 8500 GVW truck and I am a 49 state version it is also non-catalyst. I will be retaining my stock 86 system from the head pipes back, just using the EFI portion as far as the O2 sensor. Just for information, what would a port job like that run? Keep up the good work!
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:15 PM
mjp_t98 mjp_t98 is offline
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Originally Posted by Boport View Post
I am installing an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and we will see how far than takes me. If upping the fuel pressure screws up the rest of the fuel curve too much a custom chip will be in order. I really don't know what to expect, this is a dignificant increase in VE and we will be keeping an eye on A/F ratio on the dyno and see what happens. Or, maybe we will find the factory exhaust manifolds are holding all this new airflow in and we only pick up 5hp... the dyno and wideband 02 will tell the story.
That's probably not a bad idea for the dyno. Depending on which catch code ECU you have the ECU may learn away some of your fuel flow over time. Do you know which ECU code you have? Some of the 460s almost never run in Closed loop.
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:15 PM
 
 
 
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