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  #16  
Old 07-07-2010, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jac08f250 View Post
If you only drive your diesel 12k miles a year then you don't need a diesel.
That seems like a narrow minded comment and one that the manufacturers would not endorse. Using your logic most people hauling large RVs around the country should be running gassers....only there aren't really any great choices for heavy towing with gassers other than the Ford V10 which is no longer available in a pickup chassis.

I'd bet that a large percentage of the diesel pickup sales are to buyers who drive far less than 12K per year. While your use may represent the optimum use of a diesel, you are certainly in the vast minority.

As far as mileage goes, you appear to be in the "1% club" as very, very few people report getting anything near what you claim even with DPF delete and reprogramming. Anecdotally, this would indicate that the driver has more to do with the MPG gains than anything else, which has been a observed variable with most vehicles.

As a potential diesel buyer I have to say that I'm concerned that the mileage advantage has nearly gone away due to the government's involvement. I have been lusting after a diesel since a buddy got an 05 Duramax and I saw his empty MPG. Now it seems the new stuff is very close to what my V10 will achieve so I'm having a hard time justifying the $7K - $8K penalty to get an oil burner. I wish I could find someone near me with a 6.4 and a fifth wheel hitch that would let me tow my fiver around to see what the real world difference is. I'm sure the performance advantage is significant, but I'd love to feel it for myself!

Funny how so many good things go the way of the Dodo once big brother gets a whiff!
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  #17  
Old 07-07-2010, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggziff View Post
That seems like a narrow minded comment and one that the manufacturers would not endorse. Using your logic most people hauling large RVs around the country should be running gassers....only there aren't really any great choices for heavy towing with gassers other than the Ford V10 which is no longer available in a pickup chassis.

I'd bet that a large percentage of the diesel pickup sales are to buyers who drive far less than 12K per year. While your use may represent the optimum use of a diesel, you are certainly in the vast minority.

As far as mileage goes, you appear to be in the "1% club" as very, very few people report getting anything near what you claim even with DPF delete and reprogramming. Anecdotally, this would indicate that the driver has more to do with the MPG gains than anything else, which has been a observed variable with most vehicles.

As a potential diesel buyer I have to say that I'm concerned that the mileage advantage has nearly gone away due to the government's involvement. I have been lusting after a diesel since a buddy got an 05 Duramax and I saw his empty MPG. Now it seems the new stuff is very close to what my V10 will achieve so I'm having a hard time justifying the $7K - $8K penalty to get an oil burner. I wish I could find someone near me with a 6.4 and a fifth wheel hitch that would let me tow my fiver around to see what the real world difference is. I'm sure the performance advantage is significant, but I'd love to feel it for myself!

Funny how so many good things go the way of the Dodo once big brother gets a whiff!
Go to powerstroke.org and there are alot of people claiming the same or around the same mpg I'm getting with the mods done. Now I live around Dallas and do mostly hwy driving so I don't have to worry about hills or mountains, plus I have 3.55 gears which help out alot in the mpg department. There are people I talk to that complain about not getting a huge improvement in the mpg and mostly because they have 3.73's or higher gears. But the people with my gears they get around 19-23 mpg on the hwy.
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  #18  
Old 07-07-2010, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jac08f250 View Post
Go to powerstroke.org and there are alot of people claiming the same or around the same mpg I'm getting with the mods done. Now I live around Dallas and do mostly hwy driving so I don't have to worry about hills or mountains, plus I have 3.55 gears which help out alot in the mpg department. There are people I talk to that complain about not getting a huge improvement in the mpg and mostly because they have 3.73's or higher gears. But the people with my gears they get around 19-23 mpg on the hwy.
I've looked there a little bit, but will take another look. I love the idea of 16+ unloaded...I'd be really happy with that, but I do live in the NE with hills everywhere so I am trying to be realistic!

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  #19  
Old 07-07-2010, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jac08f250 View Post
If you only drive your diesel 12k miles a year then you don't need a diesel. I'm getting 21-22 on the hwy where before I was getting 16-17. And I drive 60k miles a year so I will be making money in about a year maybe less. So it makes sense to me to get it plus I have a great realationship at my local ford dealer so I don't have to worry about voiding my warranty. If they need me to put everything back to stock I can.
Well, if you say so and that statement sounded like you were sure. But my 17,000 lb trailer is gonna eat up that 5.4 gasser in a hurry.
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  #20  
Old 07-07-2010, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggziff View Post
That seems like a narrow minded comment and one that the manufacturers would not endorse. Using your logic most people hauling large RVs around the country should be running gassers....only there aren't really any great choices for heavy towing with gassers other than the Ford V10 which is no longer available in a pickup chassis.

I'd bet that a large percentage of the diesel pickup sales are to buyers who drive far less than 12K per year. While your use may represent the optimum use of a diesel, you are certainly in the vast minority.

As far as mileage goes, you appear to be in the "1% club" as very, very few people report getting anything near what you claim even with DPF delete and reprogramming. Anecdotally, this would indicate that the driver has more to do with the MPG gains than anything else, which has been a observed variable with most vehicles.

As a potential diesel buyer I have to say that I'm concerned that the mileage advantage has nearly gone away due to the government's involvement. I have been lusting after a diesel since a buddy got an 05 Duramax and I saw his empty MPG. Now it seems the new stuff is very close to what my V10 will achieve so I'm having a hard time justifying the $7K - $8K penalty to get an oil burner. I wish I could find someone near me with a 6.4 and a fifth wheel hitch that would let me tow my fiver around to see what the real world difference is. I'm sure the performance advantage is significant, but I'd love to feel it for myself!

Funny how so many good things go the way of the Dodo once big brother gets a whiff!
Where are you?
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  #21  
Old 07-07-2010, 08:57 PM
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Where are you?
In my living room


Near Syracuse NY
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  #22  
Old 07-07-2010, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Biggziff View Post
In my living room


Near Syracuse NY
Living room huh, very funny. Too bad, I was up that way last year and would have been glad to let you hook up and tow with my truck. I never towed a 5er with a gasser, been in diesels for 10 years. I did tow a lot of boats with gassers, I'm talking 26 and 27 foot boats mostly with Suburbans but a few with gas trucks. There is no comparison. The gassers just didn't have near the power of these diesels. Now, i'm talking about the eighties and I'm sure your V10 is far superior to the 454s and 460s from back then but I doubt they compare very well with a diesel. Put an ad on craig's list, offer somebody a hundred bucks or so, or just ask, somebody will do it, I would. Also, find someone with a diesel for sale that has the hitch in and tell them you want to road test with your trailer on. I think if you try it and if your 5er is 12K or more you will want to change to a diesel.
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  #23  
Old 07-07-2010, 09:22 PM
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I know its a little different but we had a v10 in a motorhome and when it hit the hills the economy went to nothing and it topped out at 10 and got worse from there. Gas engines just dont compare to diesel in the least for towing all you are doing is working them non stop and the the diesel is built to work. The gas is not. By the way sharp truck StanleyZ
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  #24  
Old 07-08-2010, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jac08f250 View Post
If you only drive your diesel 12k miles a year then you don't need a diesel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggziff View Post
That seems like a narrow minded comment and one that the manufacturers would not endorse. Using your logic most people hauling large RVs around the country should be running gassers....only there aren't really any great choices for heavy towing with gassers other than the Ford V10 which is no longer available in a pickup chassis.

I'd bet that a large percentage of the diesel pickup sales are to buyers who drive far less than 12K per year. While your use may represent the optimum use of a diesel, you are certainly in the vast minority.
I have to agree with Biggziff here. I only drive about 12k/yr but I pull a 9k fifth wheel during the summer. I was the proud owner of an '02 V10 for seven years until I finally traded her for an '08 diesel. My 6.4 is avereraging 16 to 17 mpg mixed driving and 11 to 12 towing my 5ver. My '02 V10 was averaging 13 to 14 mgp mixed driving and 8 to 10 pulling my 5ver. I didn't get the 6.4 for fuel economy, I got it for the towing capabilities and it does it very well.

I'm not knocking my trusty, reliable V10. She got us all over the place pulling the 5ver, but it was no an easy chore keeping her in that rpm range she needed to be for max powerband. The 6.4 just has power everywhere. Heck I can even set the cruise and it pulls without hunting the gears even on slight grades. The only way I could use cruise on the V10 was on perfectly flat terrain.

The added MPG's is just a bonus, but the higher maintenance cost plus the cost of diesel over gas in the long run makes the savings a wash. Yeah, the additional up front cost for the 6.4 vs. and equally equipped V10 was $2k to $3k more, but in the end the driving experience is worth it.
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  #25  
Old 07-08-2010, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rascal810 View Post
I know its a little different but we had a v10 in a motorhome and when it hit the hills the economy went to nothing and it topped out at 10 and got worse from there. Gas engines just dont compare to diesel in the least for towing all you are doing is working them non stop and the the diesel is built to work. The gas is not. By the way sharp truck StanleyZ
Thank you, we like it a lot, just wish it didn't "make oil".
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  #26  
Old 07-08-2010, 10:47 AM
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Thank you, we like it a lot, just wish it didn't "make oil".
Will you delete the DPF?
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:51 PM
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Will you delete the DPF?
Interesting question, I'm thinking about it. But it's a hard call. I only have 17K on the truck and would hate to give up the warranty. There is a thread on here somewhere with a thread about a DPF removal with a non-tuner computer that changes nothing in the engine except to make it think the DPF is un clogged and that no regen is needed. At least that's what they claim. I'm thinkin with that I could mace a decent case to ford that I hadn't made any modifications that hurt the truck. I have a friend of a friend that is a service manager with a life time of experience at Ford. If I decide to do anything I'm gonna try to buy him a beer or a coke and ask for some straight talk before I do it. I think my lean right now is to buy the extended warranty. I have til October to make up my mind so I'm gonna think this one over hard.
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  #28  
Old 07-09-2010, 01:12 PM
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How often do these engines go into regen and how does it affect mileage?
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  #29  
Old 07-09-2010, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by StanleyZ View Post
Interesting question, I'm thinking about it. But it's a hard call. I only have 17K on the truck and would hate to give up the warranty. There is a thread on here somewhere with a thread about a DPF removal with a non-tuner computer that changes nothing in the engine except to make it think the DPF is un clogged and that no regen is needed. At least that's what they claim. I'm thinkin with that I could mace a decent case to ford that I hadn't made any modifications that hurt the truck. I have a friend of a friend that is a service manager with a life time of experience at Ford. If I decide to do anything I'm gonna try to buy him a beer or a coke and ask for some straight talk before I do it. I think my lean right now is to buy the extended warranty. I have til October to make up my mind so I'm gonna think this one over hard.
I hear ya....having a service guy in your pocket is a big plus. I thought I had read where there was a DPF delete that replaced the DPF with pipe and the sensor with one that always reported the proper voltage showing a clean DPF? Maybe that's the same one you're talking about.

As far as warranties go....check places like www,contegodirect.com for a national warranty. Much cheaper in my experience than the others and they use many of the same re-insurers and underwriters as the others. They actually offer warranty on my current 05 V10 with 117K miles. I think $2400 for 2 years of more than powertrain coverage.
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  #30  
Old 07-09-2010, 04:46 PM
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So if the Spartan kit with DPF delete is $1250 and you go from 12MPG to 16MPG with the kit (average) and you drive 12K miles per year and diesel is $3.10/gallon then it takes about 2 years and 25,000 miles to break even on the cost of the kit. This assumes a lot and doesn't factor in the possible warranty denials which could be *very* costly.

I dunno....sounds like it's a big risk vs reward at least to me.....
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that most (or at least some) Spartan owners (myself included) did it to get the absolutely night and day performance and fun increase and the MPG gain is a nice bonus. I bought my truck because I like it, not because i "need" it. And the Spartan makes me like it even more!



Quote:
Originally Posted by jac08f250 View Post
If you only drive your diesel 12k miles a year then you don't need a diesel.
Huh? What does mileage per year have to do with what the truck needs to do? Plus, some people just like diesels.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:46 PM
 
 
 
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