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  #16  
Old 07-05-2010, 12:40 AM
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Well...I got my clutch problem figured out. Buddy of mine adjusted it back to where it originally was with the 400 and worn-out clutch. I got it into gear and let out the clutch and nothing happened I got under there and adjusted it back quite a ways and all is well. Still needs some fine tuning though...

And after a test ride, something with the carb and/or timing is way off.
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  #17  
Old 07-05-2010, 11:03 AM
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i put the spacer in and it works perfect now weird didnt think it would make that much of a diff but it did
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:10 AM
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Im glad you got it figured out 67. and the spacer only needs to be 3/8 of an inch, although 1/2 will also work, but the end of the input shaft will not sit as far in the pilot bearing. My plate is between the bellhousing and the trans instead of the engine block and it works just fine. that is where it was when i got my truck but for anybody else doing the swap it would be much easier to make a plate that fits there. I am using a 390 flywheel redrilled for a 12" clutch and using a diaprham style clutch for better holding pressure and less pedal effort. No modifications to the pilot bearing were necessary.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:18 AM
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I still don't understand why a manual would need a spacer but an auto does not. The front of the torque converter fits into the end of the crank as well. The spacer just doesn't make sense to me.
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1979 Ford F-150 4X4 400 NP205 4-speed Parts?
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1977 Ford F-150 4X4 400 NP205 C6 Parts?
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  #20  
Old 07-05-2010, 06:46 PM
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the front hub on the torque converter doesnt seat as deep into the end of the crank, and the pads for the torque converter bolt bottom out on the flexplate before the torque converter gets in a bind. On a manual there is nothing to stop if from binding up. Seat a torque converter into an automatic and put a straightedge across the bellhousing face and measure how far the hub sticks out, then do it on a manual and see how far the input shaft sticks out and you will see the difference.
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  #21  
Old 07-05-2010, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasthighboy View Post
the front hub on the torque converter doesnt seat as deep into the end of the crank, and the pads for the torque converter bolt bottom out on the flexplate before the torque converter gets in a bind. On a manual there is nothing to stop if from binding up. Seat a torque converter into an automatic and put a straightedge across the bellhousing face and measure how far the hub sticks out, then do it on a manual and see how far the input shaft sticks out and you will see the difference.
OK, that makes sense. I did my 351m 4x4 4speed to 460 swap with no spacer anywhere, as do lots of other people. So do you think my input shaft it pushing against the back of my crank and will most likely wear the thrust bearing out of the engine like what had happended to me on a 302?
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1977 Ford F-150 4X4 400 NP205 C6 Parts?
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  #22  
Old 07-05-2010, 08:36 PM
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Idk. I would think if it was binding up it would turn hard and have a lot of drag. can you turn the engine over by hand (meaning socket and ratchet on balancer bolt)? If so i would say it probably be ok. Maybe u have a different pilot bearing that lets it not bind up. I did some checking when i swapped my 460 into a different truck to see if i needed the spacer. both were 4spds. with the spacer the end of the input shaft is just behind flush with the face of the bellhousing. without the spacer the input shaft stuck out. I did not want to take my clutch all apart and measure depth of pilot bearing, and it worked before with the spacer, so i just put the spacer in and ran with it. The bellhousings were different casting numbers but the same depth and interchangeable. the differnce was the clutch fork pivots.
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  #23  
Old 07-05-2010, 08:39 PM
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It turns over fine by hand. I've put about 3000 miles on it. I'm still kind of worried about it after reading all this about spacers. Maybe I'll loosen the bell housing to trans bolts and see if it tries pushing itself apart.
But then again lots of other people do the swap with no spacer and I have yet to hear of any problems. The problem showed up fairly quick in the mustang.
And what would happen if had a 1983 4x4 4-speed 460 and swapped to a 351m? Would this not work at all? Seem if you need a spacer going one way then the input shaft would be too short this way.
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  #24  
Old 09-02-2010, 12:54 AM
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Hey

Ok I have a 74 F250 I bought this last Year I have a 460 which has a t18 on with a adapter plate it drove before I took it apart to replace the third gear blocking rings I purchased a diaphragm luke clutch I had a three fingers before I machined a new pilot bearing to fit the crank it's been put together the clutch wont disengage I bought a new adjuster rod and new fork and still nothing even thought it has a stiff pedal it finally broke my pedal assembly is the three fingers the key to solving my problem?
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  #25  
Old 09-02-2010, 09:10 PM
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I have a 78 F150 4X4 That i converted to a 460 It originaly came with a 400 m and 4 speed np 435 I used a 390 flywheel 11" 3 finger ram power grip clutch. I used the 400m bellhousing and starter and i used the stock 400 pilot bearing. I tapped it into the 460 crank till it stopped. One thing i learned was i had to trim the nose cone "AKA" the tube that goes around the splined input shaft on the front of the trany to about 2-1/4 long from the flange because it was too long and it bottomed out against my clutch disc. This caused my engine not to turn. I trimmed the nose cone and the problem went away. I have 3 other trucks with this setup and have no problems. If you can turn your moter freely you are fine.
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  #26  
Old 09-02-2010, 09:47 PM
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The 351M/400 bell is exactly .375" more shallow than the 385 series unit. I did the swap a couple years ago in my 77 highboy. The factory 400 bell housing would not work, so I used a unit from a mid eighties 3/4 ton with an external slave. I cut off the mounting ears for the slave and used the conventional linkage from the original clutch. Standard 460 flywheel and clutch assembly.

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  #27  
Old 09-03-2010, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gus11208 View Post
I have a 78 F150 4X4 That i converted to a 460 It originaly came with a 400 m and 4 speed np 435 I used a 390 flywheel 11" 3 finger ram power grip clutch. I used the 400m bellhousing and starter and i used the stock 400 pilot bearing. I tapped it into the 460 crank till it stopped. One thing i learned was i had to trim the nose cone "AKA" the tube that goes around the splined input shaft on the front of the trany to about 2-1/4 long from the flange because it was too long and it bottomed out against my clutch disc. This caused my engine not to turn. I trimmed the nose cone and the problem went away. I have 3 other trucks with this setup and have no problems. If you can turn your moter freely you are fine.
My engine turned freely but so did a Mustang that I put together with the input shaft pressing on the back of the crank. I got freaked out about reading all these threads and installed a plate between my trans and bell housing so now I can sleep at night. lol.
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1979 Ford F-150 4X4 400 NP205 4-speed Parts?
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1977 Ford F-150 4X4 400 NP205 C6 Parts?
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  #28  
Old 07-08-2014, 07:46 PM
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I have the same situation. 460 with a NP435 with a 1/2" spacer between the transmission and bell housing. My concern is that the input shaft is just barely into the pilot bearing. How far does it need to penetrate the bearing?
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  #29  
Old 07-08-2014, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATC Crazy View Post
I am going through the exact same thing with my swap (460 into '78 F150 originally with 400/NP435)

I'm curious as to whether a clutch fork from a factory 460/435 combo will solve the issue?
1983 was the first year the 460 was available w/a MT (and 4WD), F250/350 only. All 1983/97 F250/350's have a hydraulic clutch.

There are two different 351M/400 bell housings. 1977/78 and 1979 before serial number DG0,001 (Marked: D7TA-7505-AD). 1979 from serial number DG0,001, 1980/82.

D7TZ-7007-A .. 351M/400 Engine Rear Plate: 1977/79 F100/350 - 1978/82 Bronco - 1980/82 F150/350.
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  #30  
Old 07-13-2014, 08:56 PM
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I did the same swap in a '72 F-250 4x4. I had a 3/8" plate lasered out to sandwich between the tranny and bell housing but then didn't need it. The 460 had a 460 flywheel with a diaphragm clutch. I installed a pilot bearing (not bushing) and measured the input shaft protrusion from the tranny mating surface and then the depth from bellhousing to back of crank. I had about 1/8" of gap between crank and input shaft once bolted up WITHOUT spacer.

The clutch throw-out lever is too close to the clutch linkage which makes me think I need to replace the original 360 lever with one meant for a 400/460.

Anyone else had to do this?
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Old 07-13-2014, 08:56 PM
 
 
 
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