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  #1  
Old 06-28-2010, 12:37 AM
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5-speed swap?

How hard is it to swap my E40junk out for a 5speed? Truck is 4x4 and the tranny is starting to slip. I just put a TC in it about a month ago....And im sick of this. Soooo looking to do a swap. Any thoughts?? I have a lift and im pretty good with tools. Should i do it?
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:39 AM
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Everything bolts right in. I am almost done gathering all my parts now.
It's easiest to find a donor truck for the pedals, master and slave cylinder, wire harness, etc, and even an old F-150 will sufice for those. But you'll need a ZF5 for the shifter, boot etc.
You can also remove your gear selector and repalce the column cover as well as blank off the shift indicator in the cluster.

I have not done it yet, but everything literally bolts right in. T-case will bolt to the 4x4 ZF, shafts don't change or anything.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:19 AM
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Yep. Pretty easy swap. You can use any ZF from a 7.3

I'm going to swap the ZF from my '88 with the 7.3idi into my '95 eventually. Just make sure you use the clutch and flywheel from your year truck.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:44 AM
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SO i can take any 5speed fron a 7.3? doesnt matter what year?
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:47 AM
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I just did this swap last month. It is so awesome! Was really easy too. There are a few things to think about. And also a few frustrating wiring trouble shooting things. If you understand electricity then you'll get it figured quick. Well, actually I can tell you and save the headache. Mine is running superb and I'm so happy with the outcome. Kinda busy at the moment but will post more in a bit.
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1996 F-250 Super Cab XLT 4x4 7.3L PSD: DP Tuner PCM, E4OD-->5 spd, Valair clutch, 3.55 LS, Dana 60, Rosewood stage I's, IDM-120, eFuel, 6637, no EBPV, 3" DP, gutted kitty 205k
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krisx125 View Post
SO i can take any 5speed fron a 7.3? doesnt matter what year?
any 7.3 from '88 to 2002
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:16 PM
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Ok. Standby for most likely a LONG-winded response.

Like said before, the easiest thing to do is get a donor truck to have sitting right there so you can see where every single piece comes from, how it was mounted, what bolts go where, etc. Not to mention it is basically a parts store for a LOT of other things you can use like but not limited to GPR, serpentine belt, alternator, starter, interior pieces, CPS, and much much more. You can also part it out afterward. I hope to break even from my investment and on track to do just that. You wouldn't believe what folks want off of a truck that you consider junk.

Back to the swap.
Transmission - Any ZF transmission from a 7.3L diesel will bolt right up including the ZF 6 speed from super duties. But the 6 requires slightly more work. There are two 5 speed versions- ZF S5 42 and ZF S5 47. The 42 was in the trucks up until maybe 1996 then the 47 came along with 96-97 7.3's. The difference are the gears. The 47 also is rated for just a SMALL amount more torque and HP but it is hard to come by. I don't know the in depth specs on them but someone on here does. Many folks on here have the 42 like myself and William(Talyn). It runs great and I feel like I could pull the Texas A&M football field around now. I don't know where you live but I can recommend a guy that built mine for me in a week and gave a warranty for $800 in Bryan, TX. Be careful getting used though because the tail housings are notorious for cracking.
Flywheel, Starter, Clutch, and Cylinders - No matter what tranny you use, you must use a flywheel and clutch for YOUR truck. If you have the cash then take the opportunity to upgrade to a Valair or even Southbend clutch and solid mass flywheel. Don't even bother putting the dual mass flywheel on because you will surely be pulling it all again to replace it. If you use the flywheel and clutch from a donor or salvage yard check the teeth on the flywheel and inspect the clutch THOROUGHLY. You don't want to skimp on anything that goes on before the tranny because you will surely be repeating the project soon if you do or worse-walking.
Spend the $8 on a new pilot bearing and double that on a new throw out bearing. NO reason not to. A LOT of reasons to.
The starter is interchangeable from auto to manual AS LONG AS it is the correct part for your year model - like the one you already have on there.
The master and slave cylinders can come from a lot of different years but I don't know the specs on it. Best bet- get a new pre bled setup but mine off of the donor work just peachy.
Driveshafts & Transfer Case - Since the E4OD is longer than the manuals you will need different driveshafts to account for the displacement of the transfer case and subsequently the yokes. The rear will now be longer and the front shorter. Here's where it gets lightly tricky. There are different transfer cases that came in the OBS 7.3s. Most commonly you will see Borg Warner 1356 and Borg Warner 4407. They are the same internally-both chain driven with an internal pump. The differences are that the 1356 uses a slip yoke for the rear driveshaft and the 4407 uses a flange to bolt the shaft right on. They appear at first glance to be differet sizes too but the ultimate lenghts are the same(as far as T case). The 4407 is beefier and in a heavier duty case. Now try to follow me but I haven't found a good way to scribe the following where it is easy to understand.
We've determined that driveshaft lengths are obviously different between auto to manual but they are also about an inch different from manual to manaul depending on the t case. Because of the difference in the outputs on the cases a rear driveshaft from a manual truck with a 1356 is about and inch shorter than a driveshaft from a manual with a 4407. I have not verified this by laying them side by side but it is the only reasonable explanation for a small setback during my swap.
My donor had a 1356 and mine has 4407. Mine t case is in way better shape so I wanted to keep it. I took the rear shaft from the donor, pulled the slip yoke off of the front, took the flange yoke from the front of my original shaft, and swapped them out when redoing the u joints thinking that now I could still use my t case as I'd accounted for the difference. Well when putting it back up it was an inch too short. Crap. Went to the specialty hardware shop, got some grade 8 longer bolts, put in a spacer, and voila it works. But you have to apply spacer carefully due to balance issues.
The bracket that your 4x4 lever mounts in is also different between auto and manual and the lever to t case linkage bar is different length between 1356 and 4407 t cases.
May as well replace u joints while at it.
Inside the truck, wiring, & electrical - You now need a clutch pedal. You can get a clutch/brake pedal box from 93-97s and maybe even a 92 but not positive. The bushings wear so make sure then box itself isn't worn. If only the bushings are then they can be replaced. They are freaking plastic, WTF.
You don't have a hole in you floor for a shifter but the center hump is a pan than unbolts. The one in a manual bolts right back in and cha-ching, you have a hole. Cut the carpet above it.
Get the shifter, boot, and molding too. Your 4x4 lever is the same.
You can use the same steering column but they ARE different. You do not HAVE to pull the auto shifter or PRND21 plate but it's easy. You can also use one from the manual truck. It has a different wheel locking mech but whatever. My donor was XL ith no tilt/cruise so I have a hole in my column cover since I kept mine.
Buy a clutch starter interlock switch, put it on the clutch master cylinder rod, and plug it in to a harness that is already tucked into your dash. No wire jumping required.
Your auto PCM will work just fine but the manual PCM is desirable. If you have cruise and the donor does not then your cruise won't work with the donor PCM. Was a big deal to me so I kept my auto PCM and it runs fine. I'm sure it will throw a ton of tranny codes thought since the auto tranny isn't talking to the computer but I haven't tried.
Your E4OD wiring harness has multiple pigtails and many wires. You can use it BUT will not have reverse lights. The auto tranny gear indicator on the harness has to be in P or N and then you can zip tie it out of the way. The t case wires are on the trans harness as well. It only activates the 4x4 indicator lights and has no bearing on mechanics. If you use a manual tranny harness(desirable as well but not required) depending on the year you may have to jump some wires around. There are 5 wires in the computer side of that harness. Two are for the t case, two for the reverse lights, and one that just jumps right back into the next slot over to complete a circuit for starting. My donor was 95 and my DD 96. After much troubleshooting I had to move the t case wires within the harness and one end of the jumped wire. Took all of 5 minutes after the 5 hours of sweating and cussing.

I think that covers what you need to consider when acquiring parts. It seems like a huge hassle but really isn't, especially when you have several people who have already completed it successfully to advise on issues. Lots of wrenching, sweating, and beer. If yall get tired of this long post being in the way then let me know and I'll delete it but all this would have been nice to know before doing mine. Like I said, luckily I got the donor which made my ignorance easy to correct. A formal bolt by bolt write up is also in the works which may help too.

My answer to your original question...DO IT!!
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1996 F-250 Super Cab XLT 4x4 7.3L PSD: DP Tuner PCM, E4OD-->5 spd, Valair clutch, 3.55 LS, Dana 60, Rosewood stage I's, IDM-120, eFuel, 6637, no EBPV, 3" DP, gutted kitty 205k
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  #8  
Old 06-28-2010, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Falcon View Post
any 7.3 from '88 to 2002
Welllllll...... Any 7.3 from '88 - '97. After '97 they were 6 spds, and yes they will bolt up but the 6 spds are not a simple direct swap.

The early '88 - '95 (I think) ZF's had a slight lower hp/torque rating than the later models, but they will all work.

Jacob,
Are you absolutely sure the drive shafts are different lengths?
I've been told by many guys that the E4OD and ZF are the same length and won't change the drive shaft lengths in a swap.
God I hope not, I don't want to mess with my drive shafts...
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:46 PM
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Forgot. You also need a crossmember for a manual tranny. They are way different than the one for auto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DZL JIM View Post
Jacob,
Are you absolutely sure the drive shafts are different lengths?
I've been told by many guys that the E4OD and ZF are the same length and won't change the drive shaft lengths in a swap.
God I hope not, I don't want to mess with my drive shafts...
Yessir. I was told that before my swap. When I took down the shafts from each truck just eyeballing them they looked the same. I put them next to each other and sure as heck they were different. Measured and again were different. The easiest way would be to measure them while on the truck so they are where you know they will be while functioning. I do not know enough to say that they all are but in MY application, a 96 auto parts to 95 manual parts, they were. It makes sense as well. Think about this:
EVERYTHING bolts right up. Tranny to engine, t case to tranny, shafts to t case. If the E4OD is longer than ZFs(which we know it is) then the t case is subsequently going to be farther back when mounted to the tail of the tranny. Likewise, ZF shorter, thus the t case is closer to front of truck. Since the shafts connect to the t case, a move forward or backward of the t case will cause a difference in shaft length.

Anyone else feel the same way?
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1996 F-250 Super Cab XLT 4x4 7.3L PSD: DP Tuner PCM, E4OD-->5 spd, Valair clutch, 3.55 LS, Dana 60, Rosewood stage I's, IDM-120, eFuel, 6637, no EBPV, 3" DP, gutted kitty 205k
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:59 PM
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I can't wait to do this swap... and the 4x4 swap with a Dana 60
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:41 PM
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Jacob,
I just measured my ZF5 and a spare E4OD sitting in the shop.
The ZF5 is 1 1/2" LONGER than the E4OD. And guess what? The alum spacer that the E4OD uses is 1 1/2" thick.
So as far as I can tell, you don't use the spacer (starter hangs on the ZF housing) and they are a direct swap.

I also just spoke with a buddy that did the swap and he said shafts are same and the cross members are the same, just needs to be moved to another hole already in the frame.
??
Guess I wont' really know till I dig into it...
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DZL JIM View Post
Jacob,
I just measured my ZF5 and a spare E4OD sitting in the shop.
The ZF5 is 1 1/2" LONGER than the E4OD. And guess what? The alum spacer that the E4OD uses is 1 1/2" thick.
So as far as I can tell, you don't use the spacer (starter hangs on the ZF housing) and they are a direct swap.

I also just spoke with a buddy that did the swap and he said shafts are same and the cross members are the same, just needs to be moved to another hole already in the frame.
??
Guess I wont' really know till I dig into it...
Disclaimer: I am not arguing with Jim. He knows worlds more than me about these trucks. I am simply relaying my findings so they can be compared.

I went and did some measuring. My ZF is roughly 26 3/4" from front to back. My E4OD is 31 3/4" from front to back. The aluminum spacer that was in front of my auto is 1 1/4" and is in front of my ZF on the truck now. There was one on the donor as well. Same exact mold and 1 1/4" in width. I thought I didn't need one but when I did the swap and saw it on the donor I used it.
My crossmembers are WAY different. The one from the auto is two pieces when joined they make a 90* elbow on one end. It may work but I just used the one from the donor and moved it forward to pre-existing holes in the frame. I also had to move my skid plate forward but again used existing holes.
The driveshafts were without a doubt different. On the ground the front from the manual was visually shorter and measured shorter. The rear was visually longer and also measured longer. The difference between fronts and rears was the same.
But this is only MY application. I do not know enough to say what applications this info is good for. But due to the great success of my swap thus far I can say it worked for me. Who knows, maybe I'm in store for a critical failure of some sort...

Now we need some other guys to do the swap so results can be compared...
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1996 F-250 Super Cab XLT 4x4 7.3L PSD: DP Tuner PCM, E4OD-->5 spd, Valair clutch, 3.55 LS, Dana 60, Rosewood stage I's, IDM-120, eFuel, 6637, no EBPV, 3" DP, gutted kitty 205k
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:55 PM
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Not trying to hijack this thread but I just need a quick question answered.
My truck is a 97 2WD S-5-47. My transmission grinds pretty bad which is to be expected for the original tranny with 274K on it. I was looking for used transmissions and found a S-5-42 from a 95 7.3 4WD, it was rebuilt 10K ago. Will a 4x4 transmission fit in my truck?

Thanks guys!
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4wdracer View Post
Not trying to hijack this thread but I just need a quick question answered.
My truck is a 97 2WD S-5-47. My transmission grinds pretty bad which is to be expected for the original tranny with 274K on it. I was looking for used transmissions and found a S-5-42 from a 95 7.3 4WD, it was rebuilt 10K ago. Will a 4x4 transmission fit in my truck?

Thanks guys!
different tail shafts on 2wd and 4wd, the trans would have to be split and change the shaft
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:09 PM
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i did the swap and what learned and did was used f-150 5 speed cross member and a 1990 zf5speed. What i found is the gas 5 speed has starter mounts,the powerstroke has no starter mounts,and thats what the spacer is for because the zf for a powerstroke dose not have any.But all the rest is true its a bolt in and go.
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