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  #1  
Old 06-13-2010, 02:08 PM
Rodeorat Rodeorat is offline
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Tires skipping

Hey Guys, Hope your bottomless well of knowledge has some ideas here, since I'm lost.

Have an 04 F150 Lariat 4x4 Screw. When backing out of my driveway or a parking space, out to the right (steering wheel far to the left) the front tires (one or both, not sure) seem to skip the pavement. This is in 2WD.
Doesn't seem to occur when backing up to the left (wheels to the right).
Could this be a CV joint, or ball?

2nd question: When in 4HI or 4L, the front tranfer case is loud. 4WD engages fine, but it really puts drag on the car. Gotta give it gas to go and I can hear the front drive going. Is that normal on these trucks? My old 4x4 Jeep was as quiet in 4WD as it was in 2WD, and there was no drag on the car when engaged.

Thanks guys.
Brian
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  #2  
Old 06-14-2010, 12:15 PM
Rodeorat Rodeorat is offline
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Nothing on this? Anyone?
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  #3  
Old 06-14-2010, 02:21 PM
EBTDM EBTDM is offline
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There is a thread on the IWE system referenceing everything you ever wanted to know. The symptoms you list all take you to the 4WD. Search for that thread, it is a long thread, you will learn a lot there. That is where I would start if I had your symptoms.
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  #4  
Old 06-15-2010, 10:07 PM
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Rodeorat,

Below I typed up a whole little diagnostic routine you can do. But before you do it, verify that no modifications have been done to the front diff (front locker or something), verify that it is not something physically binding on the tire (like a mudflap or something). Also verify whether or not you have oversize tires on the truck as well.

I dont know If I would jump right on the IWE bandwagon just yet. In 2wd your Tcase should be disconnected, and your IWE's should be disconnected. The wheel skipping indicates that both your IWE's are locked in AND your Tcase is locked in. This is unusual, but not exactly impossible. I would first go through the same scenario that triggers this symptom, but do it in 4x4 and compare the two, please post your results.

The concerns you have listed including the Tcase being loud almost point to a mecahnical failure in your Tcase.

Here's a test you can do:
In 2wd, engine running, on level ground, with the parking brake set, and the wheels blocked, carefully crawl under your truck and attempt to rotate your front driveshaft. At this point you should be able to spin it by hand without any issues. If the driveshaft spins freely, we can rule out anything 4x4 related causing this concern.

However I suspect that the driveshaft will be locked (be sure it is in 2WD AND ENGINE RUNNING). Next thing we can do is jack both front tires up in the air (safely set them on jack stands, rear wheels blocked, etc.) and then spin the front driveshaft again. If it still does not turn suspect a problem with the transfer case. This will usually require draining the fluid from the Tcase and looking signs of internal damage such as metal debris. If spinning the axle starts to turn the front wheels, suspect an issue with the IWE system. Next get up and spin each front tire individually. While spinning the wheels (again with truck running in 2wd) look to see if the axleshafts turn. They should remain stationary as both front tires turn. if the axleshafts turn as you spin the front tires, then suspect a problem with IWE system.

It is possible to have multiple problems at the same time. The Tcase on my truck is very quiet, and operates very smoothly without taking alot of power from the truck. so you could have an issue with that, and now that a part of your IWE system went out, you are starting to notice it now.

Anyway, a little diagnosis will go a long way.

Please post your results when you get them.
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  #5  
Old 06-16-2010, 09:32 AM
Rodeorat Rodeorat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter94 View Post
Rodeorat,

Below I typed up a whole little diagnostic routine you can do. But before you do it, verify that no modifications have been done to the front diff (front locker or something), verify that it is not something physically binding on the tire (like a mudflap or something). Also verify whether or not you have oversize tires on the truck as well.

I dont know If I would jump right on the IWE bandwagon just yet. In 2wd your Tcase should be disconnected, and your IWE's should be disconnected. The wheel skipping indicates that both your IWE's are locked in AND your Tcase is locked in. This is unusual, but not exactly impossible. I would first go through the same scenario that triggers this symptom, but do it in 4x4 and compare the two, please post your results.

The concerns you have listed including the Tcase being loud almost point to a mecahnical failure in your Tcase.

Here's a test you can do:
In 2wd, engine running, on level ground, with the parking brake set, and the wheels blocked, carefully crawl under your truck and attempt to rotate your front driveshaft. At this point you should be able to spin it by hand without any issues. If the driveshaft spins freely, we can rule out anything 4x4 related causing this concern.

However I suspect that the driveshaft will be locked (be sure it is in 2WD AND ENGINE RUNNING). Next thing we can do is jack both front tires up in the air (safely set them on jack stands, rear wheels blocked, etc.) and then spin the front driveshaft again. If it still does not turn suspect a problem with the transfer case. This will usually require draining the fluid from the Tcase and looking signs of internal damage such as metal debris. If spinning the axle starts to turn the front wheels, suspect an issue with the IWE system. Next get up and spin each front tire individually. While spinning the wheels (again with truck running in 2wd) look to see if the axleshafts turn. They should remain stationary as both front tires turn. if the axleshafts turn as you spin the front tires, then suspect a problem with IWE system.

It is possible to have multiple problems at the same time. The Tcase on my truck is very quiet, and operates very smoothly without taking alot of power from the truck. so you could have an issue with that, and now that a part of your IWE system went out, you are starting to notice it now.

Anyway, a little diagnosis will go a long way.

Please post your results when you get them.
Peter94, outstanding reply, thank you. When I get a chance I will definitely go out an check these things. I already have the new IWE solenoid, with the shield, but haven't installed yet. I will inspect and blow out the vac lines, and verify the check valves are working.
The 4X4 seems to engage correctly and smoothly, but it's loud and the truck is "heavy" when moving forward, but I wouldn't characterize it as a "grinding".

Also, it doesn't come out of 4x4 when I select back to 2WD. I have to turn the truck off and let it sit for a while. When I go back in later, it's back in 2WD.

In 2WD I dont really have a problem, truck runs fine, but the tires do skip when slowly moving forward or backwards, with the wheel full left. Doesn't do it when wheel is full right.
Just filling in some more detail for your perusal. Thanks again.
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  #6  
Old 06-16-2010, 10:04 AM
Rodeorat Rodeorat is offline
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FOund in Manual

Quote:
TRACTION-LOK AXLE (IF EQUIPPED)

This axle provides added traction on slippery surfaces, particularly when
one wheel is on a poor traction surface. Under normal conditions, the
Traction-Lok axle functions like a standard rear axle. The axle may
exhibit a slight noise or vibration in tight turns with low vehicle speed.
This almost seems to point to why my tires are skipping in slow, tight turns. But would there be a Tran-Lok on the front axle or just the rear?
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  #7  
Old 06-16-2010, 11:19 AM
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93 mix 'n match 93 mix 'n match is offline
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easy test. get another person and find a nice gravel/dirt road. get them to stand outside while you romp on it from a dig.
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  #8  
Old 06-16-2010, 05:03 PM
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The rear axle may have trac lok, but that would not cause the front to bind.

If you are unsure if it is the front or the back, simply have someone go and look as you back up. That or do it on a softer surface such as gravel and have an assistant watch to see what tire is really skidding.

Either way your IWE system should have your front disengaged when you back up, so it shouldnt be an issue anyway.

Now one thing that does make me wonder is why it only does it with the wheels turned one direction.

If you go to a big empty parking lot, and turn the wheel all the way left it does it. What happens if you turn the wheel only 1/2 way to the left, or 3/4 way to the left? I just want to make sure there is no mechanical binding somewhere.
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2010, 12:43 PM
Rodeorat Rodeorat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter94 View Post
Rodeorat,

Below I typed up a whole little diagnostic routine you can do. But before you do it, verify that no modifications have been done to the front diff (front locker or something), verify that it is not something physically binding on the tire (like a mudflap or something). Also verify whether or not you have oversize tires on the truck as well.

I dont know If I would jump right on the IWE bandwagon just yet. In 2wd your Tcase should be disconnected, and your IWE's should be disconnected. The wheel skipping indicates that both your IWE's are locked in AND your Tcase is locked in. This is unusual, but not exactly impossible. I would first go through the same scenario that triggers this symptom, but do it in 4x4 and compare the two, please post your results.

The concerns you have listed including the Tcase being loud almost point to a mecahnical failure in your Tcase.

Here's a test you can do:
In 2wd, engine running, on level ground, with the parking brake set, and the wheels blocked, carefully crawl under your truck and attempt to rotate your front driveshaft. At this point you should be able to spin it by hand without any issues. If the driveshaft spins freely, we can rule out anything 4x4 related causing this concern.

However I suspect that the driveshaft will be locked (be sure it is in 2WD AND ENGINE RUNNING). Next thing we can do is jack both front tires up in the air (safely set them on jack stands, rear wheels blocked, etc.) and then spin the front driveshaft again. If it still does not turn suspect a problem with the transfer case. This will usually require draining the fluid from the Tcase and looking signs of internal damage such as metal debris. If spinning the axle starts to turn the front wheels, suspect an issue with the IWE system. Next get up and spin each front tire individually. While spinning the wheels (again with truck running in 2wd) look to see if the axleshafts turn. They should remain stationary as both front tires turn. if the axleshafts turn as you spin the front tires, then suspect a problem with IWE system.

It is possible to have multiple problems at the same time. The Tcase on my truck is very quiet, and operates very smoothly without taking alot of power from the truck. so you could have an issue with that, and now that a part of your IWE system went out, you are starting to notice it now.

Anyway, a little diagnosis will go a long way.

Please post your results when you get them.
Ok, new info.
Because I had the new IWE solenoid, I changed it first thing this morning.

Moved the truck to level ground, in Park, rotated the front drive shaft freely. Jacked up each tire and rotated each tire freely.
Engaged 4WD and the wheels engaged. There's a little play in the wheels still, maybe 4-5 inches of turn before they hit a stop. I would probably assume this to be normal.
While I didn't jack both tires up at the same time (no jack stands), I think I've shown the wheels weren't binding in 2WD.

Took it to a graveled parking lot and engaged 4x4.
With the new solenoid, I didn't notice T-case noise at all. Guess the noise I heard before was in fact the famed "grinding" everyone hears. Well, it's gone now. 4HI engaged nicely, as did 4L. Then back to 2HI worked as well, which didn't work previously.
While I still question the "heaviness" of 4WD mode, it seems to be operating as advertised now. Chalk another one up the IWE solenoid.

Regarding the tire skipping. Still happens. Only occurs when wheel is cranked about 90% left. 100%=no skip. There's just a small range in a tight turn to the left. Seems to be coming specifically from the left wheel as well. Tires are stock 18".

Thanks for the input guys, and thanks for any future input.
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  #10  
Old 06-17-2010, 03:34 PM
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Rodeorat, sounds like the IWE solenoid took care of most of your issues. Your testing of the front driveshaft confirms that any binding issues would not be related to it being in 4wd. As long as both front tires are disengaged from your individual axleshafts I would not worry about the IWE causing the skipping.

However I would still have someone watch you while you do this turning manuver to see which tire is skipping and we can narrow it down from there. It would be normal in a tight turn for the tires to make a little bit of noise, but if they are physically binding and dragging on the ground, then you still have a problem.
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  #11  
Old 06-25-2010, 09:34 AM
Rodeorat Rodeorat is offline
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Not really skipping

Hey Peter94,

Looks like my thread title was a misnomer. The tires aren't skipping at all, but rather the steering at the wheel is "shuddering" briefly when making that slow, tight left, going both forward and reverse. And as mentioned previously, the shudder is in a fairly small range of steering movement about 90% of full turn.

Any new thoughts about that?
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  #12  
Old 07-05-2010, 01:01 AM
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Well, we can rule out the CV shafts causing this, because they are completely disconnected from everything while you are in 2wd. The only thing really spinning are your tire/wheel assemblies. So at 90% left turn, your tires are at a pretty good angle.

Do you have oversize tires/ aftermarket rims at all? How about mudflaps/fender flares/lift kit? The only reason I say this is because it sounds like your tire is hitting or binding on something during these turning manuvers. Otherwise there is nothing spinning or moving that would really cause this symptom.

Just to be sure I have a clear understanding of what is going on, when you are at about 90% left turn, during the turn your steeringwheel shakes back and fourth correct?

Another thought would be the condition of your tires. Are they really chopped on the inside/outside, or excessively worn? Another thing you could try is rotating your tires one at a time to the back. In other words move LF to LR, then retest, and move RF to RR and then retest again. This way you can narrow it down to a specific wheel/tire combo if that is the cause. Let me know what you find.
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Old 07-05-2010, 10:52 AM
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vibration

Hey Thanks Peter94,

The wheels are stock 275/65/18R and they're not excessively worn. Probably have another 20K to go on them. I've also already had all the tires balanced and rotated, twice, to fix a rearend vibration at higher speed, which is all gone now. I would think that if the tire size is the problem, it would rub and vibrate all the way to 100%. As far as binding on something, I'm inclined to not believe that's the case, as there is no sound associated with it. Tires rubbing general creates a distinctive sound. Plus there's just not a "rubbing" or binding feel to it, other than the vibration.
I dunno, but at this point, it's a relatively minor issue. It only happens on those tight left-hand turns at slow speeds. Then if it occurs, I can simply turn it a little more or less and it ceases.

Thank you for all your input in this sir.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:53 PM
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So you have no other concerns besides the steering wheel shake at low speeds? The truck does not make any noise at all anymore? What state do you live in, I would like to see what you are talking about. Any way you can take a video of it or anything? Another idea would be to find a buddy with a similar year/style truck that you can drive and see what it does. Next time I have mine on the road i'll have to check that out and pay attention.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:47 PM
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I'm in Denton Texas, about 30 north of Dallas. After changing out the IWE solenoid, I took the truck to a gravel parking lot and tried out the 4WD and it engaged, disengaged normally, and I didn't notice any excessive drive noise from the front drive train, and all seemed well. Previously, when I tested I was on dry pavement (straight only), so that may have had alot to do with the noise, shimmy, and forward drag. It worked well on gravel, after the IWE change.

So yes, at this point, that little shimmy in tight, slow, left turns is my only concern right now. Other than that, she's driving pretty well. Waiting for my Dynomax VT to show up at the retailer though. Waiting 3 weeks so far.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:47 PM
 
 
 
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