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2004 - 2008 F150 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 Ford F150's with 5.4 V8, 4.6 V8 or 4.2 V6 engine
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  #1  
Old 06-08-2010, 05:22 PM
MCLFX4 MCLFX4 is offline
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5.4 cam phasers...fix or not?

About 2 months ago I bought a 2004 F150 5.4L FX4. The truck is super clean and with 93,000 miles i am only its second owner. When I was looking for a new pickup I test drove 6 different 04 or 05 xlt or fx4 F150s. On three of the six I heard this knocking sound in the engine. so before i purchased a truck i did some research and found that it was likely the cam phasers. my truck did not have the knock when i bought it, but sure enough... it does now. I am fairly certain it is the cam phasers being as it is a light knock and it only occurs after the engine is warm. This is annoying the hell out of me.

I have read many threads on the subject. It seems that some people live with the knock, some get it fixed and the knock disappears, and some try to get it fixed but they are told they need a new engine or the knock comes back shortly after leaving the mechanic. I have no warranty of any kind so any repairs would come strait out of pocket. So my question is simply this... What should I do?

Thank you for any input.
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  #2  
Old 06-08-2010, 08:57 PM
ford-speed ford-speed is offline
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The fix for this depends on proper noise diagnosis by the technician working on it, there are tsb's out there to follow so hopefully they do so.
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:02 AM
MCLFX4 MCLFX4 is offline
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I just read TSB 05-15-8 for the cam phaser noise. It says the 5.4 and 4.6

"variable cam timing (VCT) feature may emit a light knock in normal operation and is audible only at idle speed, with a hot engine (gear selector in park/neutral)... If the noise intensity is more than a lightly audible knock at hot idle under 1200 RPM at engine operating temperature, replace the cam phaser..."

My new question is this. What is the difference between a "normal" knock and a "more than lightly audible" knock? And will a mechanic at a dealership know the difference either?
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:06 PM
xfordfan xfordfan is offline
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failed cam phasers

I had the knock in my 2005 expedition limited about a week after I bought it in 2006...It has been in and out of the dealership. I was told is was the air suspension the the cooling system then it was the air conditioning now if finally died at only 150,000 km and they say its the cam phasers. The knocking is the start of them failing and they say its a 50/50 chance they will eventually fail completely. Lucky me mine failed 2 months past warranty and ford wont fix it....they told me its a $4,000.00 fix now. Would not keep a ford with the issue. It will cost you more than the truck eventually.
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  #5  
Old 06-26-2011, 12:27 PM
ChrisCarter ChrisCarter is offline
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2200 here to fix phasers, and its an extra 250 bucks to fix the lash adjusters...
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  #6  
Old 06-27-2011, 01:56 PM
cstwohig cstwohig is offline
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My son took his 2005 f150 to our local dealer and had the phasers replaced and spent about $1800. It sounded good when he drove it off the lot, but by the next day after having the engine running for awhile the noise was back. About 4 weeks later the phaser went out and basically destroyed his engine. The ford dealer is trying to blame him stating he didn't have adequate oil pressure. He had checked the oil and all fluids when the check engine light came on and all was good. He was out of town and was driving back home when it happened. Any advice in dealing with this would be very much appreciated.
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  #7  
Old 06-27-2011, 02:32 PM
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Shawns Fords Shawns Fords is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstwohig View Post
My son took his 2005 f150 to our local dealer and had the phasers replaced and spent about $1800. It sounded good when he drove it off the lot, but by the next day after having the engine running for awhile the noise was back. About 4 weeks later the phaser went out and basically destroyed his engine. The ford dealer is trying to blame him stating he didn't have adequate oil pressure. He had checked the oil and all fluids when the check engine light came on and all was good. He was out of town and was driving back home when it happened. Any advice in dealing with this would be very much appreciated.
Part of the diagnosis per Fords TSB for the cam phasers is verifying the correct oil type and pressure is correct. It also is written to verify the noise with various inspection procedures. Replacement of the phasers alone is not the correct repair, all of the cam followers are to be replaced as well. If the phasers were replaced improperly then it could possibly cause engine damage, but it also would not run right once repair was completed. It must have 25 psi oil pressure to allow proper operation of the phasers. He has no way of checking the exact pressure when driving on the road. I would like to know what was damaged and how it became damaged before going any further.
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:32 PM
cstwohig cstwohig is offline
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phaser problems

From what I understand the phaser broke, causing damage to his valves and pistons. He is working now and I have asked him to call me when he can so I can get all the particulars. I do know he had to repair an ac line after having this done. Don't know if it's related or not.
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  #9  
Old 06-27-2011, 03:58 PM
cstwohig cstwohig is offline
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Originally Posted by Shawns Fords View Post
Part of the diagnosis per Fords TSB for the cam phasers is verifying the correct oil type and pressure is correct. It also is written to verify the noise with various inspection procedures. Replacement of the phasers alone is not the correct repair, all of the cam followers are to be replaced as well. If the phasers were replaced improperly then it could possibly cause engine damage, but it also would not run right once repair was completed. It must have 25 psi oil pressure to allow proper operation of the phasers. He has no way of checking the exact pressure when driving on the road. I would like to know what was damaged and how it became damaged before going any further.
From what I understand the phaser broke, causing damage to his valves and pistons. He is working now and I have asked him to call me when he can so I can get all the particulars. I do know he had to repair an ac line after having this done. Don't know if it's related or not.

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  #10  
Old 06-27-2011, 04:42 PM
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Shawns Fords Shawns Fords is offline
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Well I can say all kinds of things about Dealerships today. But for them to claim it was improper oil pressure is why the phaser broke sounds a bit absurd. The VCT actuator controls the oil pressure going to the phaser to adjust the timing. It runs through the timing chain tensioners before it gets to the actuator. I bet the A/C line was broken when removing the passenger side valve cover. A lazy guy would rather fight with that line in the way instead of taking 30 minutes to suck the freon out and remove the line so it wont get broken.

FORD used to practice "Fix it right the first time" then they took all of the labor pay away. It pays 5.5 hours to do this job, which includes R&R both cams to replace the followers and front timing cover.
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Old 06-27-2011, 05:08 PM
cstwohig cstwohig is offline
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Originally Posted by Shawns Fords View Post
Well I can say all kinds of things about Dealerships today. But for them to claim it was improper oil pressure is why the phaser broke sounds a bit absurd. The VCT actuator controls the oil pressure going to the phaser to adjust the timing. It runs through the timing chain tensioners before it gets to the actuator. I bet the A/C line was broken when removing the passenger side valve cover. A lazy guy would rather fight with that line in the way instead of taking 30 minutes to suck the freon out and remove the line so it wont get broken.

FORD used to practice "Fix it right the first time" then they took all of the labor pay away. It pays 5.5 hours to do this job, which includes R&R both cams to replace the followers and front timing cover.
My son was going to talk to the service manager when he gets off work today. I don't know what he'll do if they don't stand behind their repairs. He took his truck in to them to get his transmission replaced and had them fix the knock while they had it. He ended up spending a little over $5000 and now this?

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it.
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  #12  
Old 06-27-2011, 06:15 PM
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If the phasers failed then they any any consequential damage is covered by the 12mo/12k mile service parts warranty.
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  #13  
Old 09-04-2012, 04:34 PM
mncowboy969 mncowboy969 is offline
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2004 Ford F-150 5.4L timing chain and phaser problems

Help! I'm a little distraught right now. My mechanic had told me that my timing chain was sounding like it was loose and needing to be changed soon. This was upon my picking my truck up from him, after he installed a rebuilt tranny at the cost of $2,400. A month prior, I had to have the outside bearings replaced on the rear differential at the cost of $750. Now the engine?

OK, he said that it would last awhile and put sea-foam in it to help clean it out. 3 days later, I take an hour drive, only to have the engine sounding like it's deiseling at the end of the trip when I'm driving slowly in the parking lot to park. Then 5 days later, the same problem after a 40 minute drive, and this time the engine trouble light came on.

Took it to the mechanic, he put the meter on it and said that the #8 phaser was going. Gave me a rough estimate of $1,900 for the timing chain replacement, and would have to see on the phaser. Now, 4 days later, I call him to see if he's done, and he said that they were just wrapping it up and I can pick it up tonight. BUT.....that a phaser was worn and would eventually need to be replaced. WTF?!?!?!?

I asked him why didn't he replace it while he had to engine opened up? He said, that he didn't think I would want to spend another $800 to fix it. $800, seriously? For replacing a phaser when the engine is already opened up?!?!?

OK, I need help on this. Am I getting the hose job, or would it really cost $800 to replace a phaser, when he's already got the engine apart to replace the timing chains? ANd, is the timing chain price reasonable? On another site, that gives repair estimates, it said that it was a 12 hour job. He told me that it was a 24 hour job, but was knocking 5 hours off, to make it a 19 hour job. The mechanic seems to be a nice guy, and seems honest, but just am not comfortable with the prices now. Any knowledgeable feedback would be greatly appreciated!
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  #14  
Old 09-04-2012, 05:23 PM
02transam 02transam is offline
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Ford has screwed a lot of people with the phaser thing....... sad just sad.......
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  #15  
Old 10-11-2012, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mncowboy969 View Post
Help! I'm a little distraught right now. My mechanic had told me that my timing chain was sounding like it was loose and needing to be changed soon. This was upon my picking my truck up from him, after he installed a rebuilt tranny at the cost of $2,400. A month prior, I had to have the outside bearings replaced on the rear differential at the cost of $750. Now the engine?

OK, he said that it would last awhile and put sea-foam in it to help clean it out. 3 days later, I take an hour drive, only to have the engine sounding like it's deiseling at the end of the trip when I'm driving slowly in the parking lot to park. Then 5 days later, the same problem after a 40 minute drive, and this time the engine trouble light came on.

Took it to the mechanic, he put the meter on it and said that the #8 phaser was going. Gave me a rough estimate of $1,900 for the timing chain replacement, and would have to see on the phaser. Now, 4 days later, I call him to see if he's done, and he said that they were just wrapping it up and I can pick it up tonight. BUT.....that a phaser was worn and would eventually need to be replaced. WTF?!?!?!?

I asked him why didn't he replace it while he had to engine opened up? He said, that he didn't think I would want to spend another $800 to fix it. $800, seriously? For replacing a phaser when the engine is already opened up?!?!?

OK, I need help on this. Am I getting the hose job, or would it really cost $800 to replace a phaser, when he's already got the engine apart to replace the timing chains? ANd, is the timing chain price reasonable? On another site, that gives repair estimates, it said that it was a 12 hour job. He told me that it was a 24 hour job, but was knocking 5 hours off, to make it a 19 hour job. The mechanic seems to be a nice guy, and seems honest, but just am not comfortable with the prices now. Any knowledgeable feedback would be greatly appreciated!
Here is a handy thread that I found very useful in determining just what is
involved with this whole phaser issue. I don't know what your mech is
referring to with the #8 phaser, but according to the below thread, there's
only two per engine. Have a look here and hope this helps you get a better
idea on your issue.

Rick

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/11...ery-quite.html
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:29 AM
 
 
 
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