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  #91  
Old 01-23-2011, 11:20 PM
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"The high speed circuit turns the fan on high at 10 degrees higher in temperature while disabling the low speed circuit."

oops!
wish i read that first.
id like the "low" to = pass side fan.
"high" to = both fans.

can i rewire this somehow to make this happen?
perhaps by using the blue wire somehow?
i should have asked him before sending it,to rewire it to keep the "low" on for me.dang.
the relays etc are dipped in epoxy or something so hopefully i can do this by using the blue wire? i wounder if the blue forces the "low" on "while" the "high" is on though?
i was hoping to have them come on in stages,to keep the draw down when not required.
i want to keep everything auto,no switches.
am i stuck just using the "high" side only, with both fans hooked together do ya think?
http://www.dccontrol.com/2sp.pdf

she's all in and looks stock.
just have to run my temp sensor mid way in the rad.just pokes in there.adjust my temp,and figure out if my plan when to crap lol.
who knows though,perhaps both would always kick on when needed anyway and maybe cooling one side of a rad like that wouldn't be the best of ideas either?

its not the end of the world.mainly i just want it to just work with no frigging with switches,so if i need to wire 'em together so be it.im predicting pretty much only having 'em coming on when the plow is on anyway,maybe once in a great while in the summer pulling some hills loaded up.so im probably over worrying amp draw anyway.still,if anyone has any ideas.im all for tweaking every ounce of liquid gold savings (oil lol.)
maybe i should have just wired 'em together and got the variable rate controller,and stop being such a cheapy.

fuse between bat and controller.will she pop a 30a? do i need a 60a here,and two 30's pre-fan? or any other suggestions.

so for now,until i hear from someone who knows much more than me about these things lol,
im going to:
connect both fans together as one fan.
connect both "low" and "high" together as one as well.
this will:
turn both on at desired(adjustable temp) as "low" but in my case,i assume they spin at the same speed,since these fans are not 2 speed fans.
then if the temp climbs 10 degree's higher,the "low" turns off,and the "high" turns on.this will just mean for me,the fans will keep running seamlessly until temps drop and turn off.
i'll try a 30a fuse,and see what happens.it appears the guy on OBN hooked 'em together and used a 30a.he used another 30a in line,but that was just for his feed to manual switch.
since only "low" OR "high" (this is required so you don't burn out the 2speed fans used in cars) is open at once,then i'll need to hook 'em together to make sure my fans don't just turn off.this way my "blue" wire will trigger the fan to turn on too,when i turn on the a/c.

on a side note,
since the 2 speed fans cannot run both the "high" and "low" at once without burning up the fan motors,and the "blue" a/c wire is used to always turn the "low" on.what happens if the car is 10 degree's over the "low" setting so the "high" kicks on,and you have the A/C on?
i'll test this to see what happens.if it does still kick the "low" on,while the "high" is on,i'll warn you guys not to use this controller for your 2spd fans lol(or just not use the blue a/c wire.and for those without a/c no need for concern.) im guessing the builder thought of this scenario though, and made it so the blue wire doesn't open the "low" side in this case.but im still gunna test to make sure.it won't matter to my fans,but for future peeps should this e-fan madness take over,the info could save someone a couple fan motors had it been overlooked by the builder.
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  #92  
Old 01-24-2011, 12:52 PM
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i am looking at a ford taurus electric dual setup at the local JY here and they are $90. Anyone else purchased this? how much for? Hoping it isnt too much over normal price.
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  #93  
Old 01-24-2011, 05:10 PM
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well i tried it with one fan at a time.
low = pass side fan.
high = driver side fan,while low was off.
not enough air flow with just one fan (aprox 2k cfm) on at a time.
thought id try it anyway.
BUT holy smokes,does she cool right off fast now when i slow down compared to the stock fan with non working clutch.
test: loaded bed full of wood chips and plow on.
only issue in this case was hills even at that.it is enough to drive right along now at 45mph on the flat with 0 issue with the plow.
i'll need to connect the fans so they run together.
fun stuff.
when the high fan kicks on,she really cools fast.i got her right up to 240 degree's on a hill and then stopped.cooled right down to 210 (my normal idle temp.)well inside 1 minute!
now to just combine them,and i should be able to tackle any hill at 45 mph,while loaded and the plow on (my personal most extreme engine temp scenario) and keep temps at or below my target of 235 degrees or less in such conditions.if i can do this,or at least close,i'll know then iv got it made for any other scenario i put my truck in.
if i drove carefully by the temp gauge,it would be easy to actually get by as is with the plow and loaded up,but for testing i was giving it to 'er good.
the fans (either low or high) are easily heard standing outside the cab in front of the grill.however cannot be heard at all inside,which i like.i think it will be the same with both running at the same time also.

also,i didn't try turning the temp setting down all the way either.it's possible if the fans turned on sooner to keep me cool enough,but i really think it's best to have 'em work together.i had the low set to turn on around 215 degrees,from there 10 degrees the controller turns off that fan and turns on the high at 225.
results could be much different if i turned it down.however,i don't wish to fight the T-stats normal fully open temp of 212 either.ideally i want to run 215-220 all the time.this would be ideal imho.however im not afraid of the idi's normal peak operating temp of 237 degree's (where a stock fan clutch is "OK"/within factory specs of engagement) either.

my truck starts inside 10 seconds (first crank w/dual 850CCA's) at -10 degrees below zero,and idles great with no block heater nor working fuel heater element.50+ psi instantly with full synthetic oil (20-25 psi at low idle, full operating temp; 210ish.)
i just had to share that too lol.i love my 3/0 cables.
if my engine warm up time is now less without an engine fan running,i can't tell right now in this cold snap we're getting though.

*also note: definition of "hill" for test here.im not sure of degree's.but this test was done on a "real" hill,some would likely call a "mountain" for example,for those who have seen Dave S post a pic of his rd beside his house.one just like that,or slightly steeper if anything.im not playing around with testing. load on truck: 1k lb plow? about i guess. it's an '8 fisher mm. truck: around 7500 lbs? i still haven't weighed the thing yet lol. load in bed.8x9 bed as you see in the pic pretty dang near completely full of 100% hardwood " American beech" tree to be specific wood chips. im not messing around while testing.this is a work truck,im not going to set it up to keep cool while driving empty to no office. temp during test: approx 0 degree's i guess it was at the time.this is the most extreme conditions my truck will see,not because of temps weight etc,but again,the plow blocking the air from the grill.anyone running a snow plow and and real temp gauge will likely confirm,this will drive the engine temps up higher than hauling uphill in 100 degree weather.

wreck,
it looks like the dual speed ford taurus fans go for about 25-35$ shipped on ebay.
remember you'll want two.
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  #94  
Old 01-24-2011, 09:54 PM
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i got to tell ya guys,the builder of these DC delta control units is VERY helpful.
A+++ customer support.even after purchase!
not only did the control arrive on time i should mention first,but;
iv been e-mailing Brain with what im trying to accomplish here.

keep in mind this is for the dual windstar fans ok.not the tourus fans.
so, he suggests using a factory "dropping resistor" from the 95-98 ford windstar van and running that into the "low" speed of the 2sp controller.
he even linked me to a vid of the part and where to find it:
How to fix the cooling fan dropping resistor on a '97 Ford Windstar | Video « Wonder How To

he does say,my plan of connecting all 4 wires into a junction box would work,however he says it would be "high" speed all the time when on.
that's fine really,and it's all auto.
but i figure why not maximize the full savings of draw on the alt when just a little flow is needed right? likely would help keep the engine at much more stable temp as well,rather than have two high speeds running turning off and on.
so he's really been a great help and i wanted to be sure to share not only my experience with this guy,but also share the knowledge he gave me to other 9th gen owners (or for anyone with the mainly square rad i guess?) who wants to keep it all auto,with no switches and maximize fuel savings to it's fullest using this controller vs the variable speed control box.
if your after easier though,that would be better,but it's not all that hard.just need to confirm some things with him first.

so,wiring instructions;
follow the PDF for everything,but with these exemptions:
run each fan motors + into the "high" side of the 2sp controller.
run each black wire to ground of course.i wouldn't mess around,and run 'em directly to a bat.that's what i did anyway.
run the wire with a 60A fueable link/circuit breaker from + bat to the "bat" of the 2sp controller.he says 60a is factory but a 50a he thinks would be fine here.
connect the factory windstar dropping resistor between the "high" and "low" side of the 2sp controller.
he also noted,the mount it in a cool place,use the sheet metal as a heat sink for it,or place it down on the frame out of the way,or in front of the fans.the cooler the better.i'll toss mine down under but still up out of the way somewhere.
now to hunt down the windstar fan "dropping resistor" and part # for those who want to buy it new.

results;
both fans turn on low speed at the temp you set it to for less startup amp draw,and max fuel efficiency and run quieter.
10 degrees higher from that,the low speed is turned off and both fans will run at high speed for max cooling when required.
the blue wire he says will still turn on the low speed when the A/C is turned on (when connected of course,if you have it.) you could also run that to a switch in the cab btw to turn on the fans low speed manually,though i don't see the purpose myself.

so this seems to be the way to go right there,as an alternative to using the better yet higher priced variable speed controller.-i kinda debated that unit,but i just know 99.9% of my driving isn't with a plow on,and i hardly ever required more engine air than whatever that stock delivers in free flow mode.i recall reading you could actually reach out and grab it safely and stop it,that's how weak it is haha,though i never dared try so my guess is,it didn't do anything really.so i don't think in the summer the low will even be on much once i adjust my low setting to turn on at 225 or perhaps 230 even.i'll have to wait and see and adjust things then.

so a little trial and error,and perhaps a little work figuring it all out and doing it,but in the end;
simplistic as stock.just get in and drive and the engine will cool itself but while saving HP and fuel!
no replacing hp robbing fan clutch after hp robbing fan clutch.good old reliable stock ford e-fans known to surpass the life of the vehicles.

the OBN member who did a full write up on putting in a windstar fan in his first gen PSD claimed a good solid 1 mpg avg increase,and a best of 2 mpg increase interstate driving!!! that's very impressive.
once off this winter crap,and pushing snow around,i'll be anxious to see if i see anything.my fan didn't lock up,but it was still there spinning some taking some fuel no doubt.

ford windstar engine cooling diagram attached.
no luck with part # yet.
doesn't appear to be anything worth buying new.iv seen a couple people claim its 75-95$
you'd be better off getting it at the yard with wiring harness.or just get the dc controls variable rate box in the first place.
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File Type: pdf fans.pdf (36.1 KB, 141 views)
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  #95  
Old 01-24-2011, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FORDF250HDXLT View Post
i got to tell ya guys,the builder of these DC delta control units is VERY helpful.
A+++ customer support.even after purchase!
not only did the control arrive on time i should mention first,but;
iv been e-mailing Brain with what im trying to accomplish here.

keep in mind this is for the dual windstar fans ok.not the tourus fans.
so, he suggests using a factory "dropping resistor" from the 95-98 ford windstar van and running that into the "low" speed of the 2sp controller.
he even linked me to a vid of the part and where to find it:
How to fix the cooling fan dropping resistor on a '97 Ford Windstar | Video « Wonder How To

he does say,my plan of connecting all 4 wires into a junction box would work,however he says it would be "high" speed all the time when on.
that's fine really,and it's all auto.
but i figure why not maximize the full savings of draw on the alt when just a little flow is needed right? likely would help keep the engine at much more stable temp as well,rather than have two high speeds running turning off and on.
so he's really been a great help and i wanted to be sure to share not only my experience with this guy,but also share the knowledge he gave me to other 9th gen owners (or for anyone with the mainly square rad i guess?) who wants to keep it all auto,with no switches and maximize fuel savings to it's fullest using this controller vs the variable speed control box.
if your after easier though,that would be better,but it's not all that hard.just need to confirm some things with him first.

so,wiring instructions;
follow the PDF for everything,but with these exemptions:
run each fan motors + into the "high" side of the 2sp controller.
run each black wire to ground of course.i wouldn't mess around,and run 'em directly to a bat.that's what i did anyway.
run the wire with a 60A fueable link/circuit breaker from + bat to the "bat" of the 2sp controller.he says 60a is factory but a 50a he thinks would be fine here.
connect the factory windstar dropping resistor between the "high" and "low" side of the 2sp controller.
he also noted,the mount it in a cool place,use the sheet metal as a heat sink for it,or place it down on the frame out of the way,or in front of the fans.the cooler the better.i'll toss mine down under but still up out of the way somewhere.
now to hunt down the windstar fan "dropping resistor" and part # for those who want to buy it new.

results;
both fans turn on low speed at the temp you set it to for less startup amp draw,and max fuel efficiency and run quieter.
10 degrees higher from that,the low speed is turned off and both fans will run at high speed for max cooling when required.
the blue wire he says will still turn on the low speed when the A/C is turned on (when connected of course,if you have it.) you could also run that to a switch in the cab btw to turn on the fans low speed manually,though i don't see the purpose myself.

so this seems to be the way to go right there,as an alternative to using the better yet higher priced variable speed controller.-i kinda debated that unit,but i just know 99.9% of my driving isn't with a plow on,and i hardly ever required more engine air than whatever that stock delivers in free flow mode.i recall reading you could actually reach out and grab it safely and stop it,that's how weak it is haha,though i never dared try so my guess is,it didn't do anything really.so i don't think in the summer the low will even be on much once i adjust my low setting to turn on at 225 or perhaps 230 even.i'll have to wait and see and adjust things then.

so a little trial and error,and perhaps a little work figuring it all out and doing it,but in the end;
simplistic as stock.just get in and drive and the engine will cool itself but while saving HP and fuel!

the OBN member who did a full write up on putting in a windstar fan in his first gen PSD claimed a good solid 1 mpg avg increase,and a best of 2 mpg increase interstate driving!!! that's very impressive.
once off this winter crap,and pushing snow around,i'll be anxious to see if i see anything.my fan didn't lock up,but it was still there spinning some taking some fuel no doubt.
Man thanks for all the research FORDF250HDXLT! Im still rebuild the 85 I went with 2 summit fans that put out 3000cfm each I was thinking about putting each fan on there on relay to turn on at different times. So im really looking forward to hearing what you find out please keep the info keep coming
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  #96  
Old 01-25-2011, 11:26 PM
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so for the 90 that the JY wants here isnt that bad since i still have factor in the eternal wait through customs and shipping cost, 90 is looking better and better. I wonder just how much power i will have freed up once i am done with this mod.....

As for my fans, lorcdo the autoparts store here has a nice electric control that is thermostatically controlled by a variable adjustment, 180-220. I will probably get that one and set one fan for the 190 dept, then have for the test phase, the other fan on a manual switch. If i see that i need it a lot, ill just wire it up relayed with the other one and set to kick on at 200ish. Always sounds so good in theory. lol.
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  #97  
Old 02-01-2011, 07:19 PM
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snow storm coming tomorrow.sounds like a good one.
have them wired up together so they both run together on a 50A breaker and all seems well.
i turned the adjustment down,and the fans have little trouble making that T-stat go to sleep.
(at expense of less heat in the cab though.but i will turn it back up as i go down the road,and notice no troubles.)
these things are nice and loud,however can just hear 'em over the IDI's sweet clatter outside the cab.
since iv got the yellow wire hooked directly,i shut the truck off with the fans on,so i could hear 'em......pretty impressive.
so 'ill hook up to the plow tomorrow and see how she goes.
one speed: high and high lol.
i'll worry about fine tuning/maximizing economy with the dropping resistor come warm weather.
for now,driving over 20mph with the plow on will be nice.
wish me luck!

almost forgot,
when the fans come on going down the road,you feel nothing at all in the way of power from the engine.iv driven plenty of vehicles with e-fans and figured as much.but those still unsure if the power loss from the mechanical fan was simply traded to the alt in a 1:1 ratio(or anything close even),well....it doesn't.
the belt and alt would likely snap and pop anyway if that were the case lol.
now to just see if they can handle the job.

for running the windstar together as "high" only;
simply connect the two fans power leads and hook them to both the low and high output of the 2sp controller.
this way when the relays "swap" possessions,should the engine go up 10 degrees over your desired temp setting,rather than turn off,they will just keep running via the other relay.then your blue wire a/c trigger still works to force them on and everything.
you'll want to mount the controller in an easy to access location,and carry a very small flat head screwdriver so you can pull over and adjust it while watching your temps.after a trial run or two,that should pretty much be it,and it will all be auto controlled to keep your cool from there on out.no need to watch the temp gauge like a hawk all the time frigging with turning on/off switches etc.depending on how well they work,i'll know if i need to adjust the temp control with and without the plow.lower it so they turn on sooner with the plow hooked up,and set it back to turn on at 220-225 like id prefer without the plow on.we'll see how it goes.
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  #98  
Old 02-02-2011, 08:18 PM
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dual ford windstar fans with plow = success!
i could drive faster than the roads were safe to travel tonight(i didn't lol.very nasty out there.but found a few straight shots to test) and didn't have to keep slowing down to 15/20 mph to let my engine cool.
how nice to just drive worry free with the grill blocked by that 8' blade.very pleased.
i normally run 105-110ish idle.this is where the fans kept me pretty much.i need to adjust the controller so they dont turn on so soon,but with the plow on,i kept it turned down to see what max results could be.
on a switch so they didn't even turn off,im guessing you could drop temps close to the t-stats open rate of 192-195ish if ya wanted,though that would be kinda silly to over cool a diesel imho.peak performance and economy is the stock normal op temps of 212-237.
i think what i'll do is just turn it down all the way whenever i put the plow on,and for everything else,adjust it so they don't come on until 225-230.which would pretty much keep them off all the time without the plow on,but there to keep me within normal temp range (anything under 240) should i need them. hard to know for sure until summer,perhaps they'll need to kick on sooner to keep up with the heat.i'll have an actual low speed then too.they're capable since they can keep her cool with that blade on.
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Old 02-12-2011, 01:59 PM
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i forgot,iv never posted any pics yet.
please excuse my temp connection block with low/high side of controller + both fan feeds.
i need the stock windstar dropping resistor latter,so that's just a connection for now.
my a/c clutch is unhooked so it doesn't turn on during winter months robbing fuel economy.
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:01 PM
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and a few more;

ok,so i could have been a little more careful with the grinder,slimming the top down straighter lol,but it's an old work truck,not a show truck.
perhaps the crack should be sealed up though for better efficiency.feel free to recommend a fire resistant spray foam or something?

perhaps i could seal all around it with this?
http://www.amazon.com/Touch-Foam-400...2&sr=8-3-fkmr0
something that's rated right up to 500 degree's so it would never be a concern would be good lol.
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♠ Chip Truck: '93 F250HD XLT 4x4 1st Gen Navistar 444ci IDI Diesel w/ Intercooled 2nd Gen Banks Sidewinder Turbo, E40D, 3.55, Dually, 9' Dump, & Plow ♠

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  #101  
Old 02-12-2011, 04:29 PM
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Nice job XLT
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1992 Ford F-250 XLT 7.3 IDI 115K, 4X4, ZF5 S5-47 w/ 12inch clutch and SMF, Banks wastegated sidewinder turbo, 6637, BB injectors, rebuilt IP w/ fuel turned up, 3 inch DP, custom 3.5 inch exhaust with 4 inch tailpipe, 285/75/16R Yokohama's on PSD alcoas. Rebuilt D60 w/ firestone airbags. 10.25 sterling rear w/4:10's LS, Three pillar gauges with pyrometer, boost, and transmission temperature. Onboard air w/ 400C Viair. 16K rated B&W trailer hitch. Sound-tracker CB w/ 4 ft firestik.
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  #102  
Old 02-12-2011, 04:45 PM
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thanks man!
she sounds kinda "modern" with the e-fans on,standing outside the cab lol.but i can feel the power difference on take off,and im sure my wallet will be happy saving fuel,rather than spinning an old mechanical fan around.so it's the sound of $ in the bank to my ears.
when it comes to these engines,why struggle so hard to add power,when you can first (after tune up) free up whats already there.i hope more people try this.this was pretty dang easy really.two guys are required imho,to gently set the fan assembly in,and hold while the other guy drills and bolts.
well worth doing for sure.it's like when i installed the cowl induction.i want to boot myself in the rear for waiting so long to do it.
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  #103  
Old 02-12-2011, 04:45 PM
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Cool setup FORDF250HDXLT, I wanna do the same! I don't have a problem in winter even with my plow on, as my plow hangs 13" farther forward than a normal setup, but in summer hauling a Bobcat I have issues climbing the hills around here...
I've got another complicating issue, though. I have another belt there to run a hydraulic pump for my plow, dump bed, & sand spreader. It just barely clears the back of the stock fan.

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Any chance you could take a measurment for me? I need the distance from the back of the radiator to the rear-most point of the electric fan setup. Then I can compare with the space I have from the back of the radiator to the front edge of my extra belt.
I don't want to impose, and no problem if it's not convenient...

Thanks,
Phy
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:26 PM
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it looks like you'll be ok phy.
the larger motor is on the drivers side.with the shroud trimmed down some,it just clears my belt tensioner,but it looks like yours is much further to the drivers side than mine is.im running the 110" length belt,and i see if i ever had a problem i could try using a 109" X 6 ribbed (that's what you want to tell the parts guy,as they don't come so short) to have my tentioner more over to the pass side.
by looking at your's,it looks like your running a 112" or 113" belt,so your tensioner is about 1/4 inch over the wrong way for the large motor to fit.
i should have measured that motor rad to end for ya.i'll run back out and do so.BUT don't forget,you can always buy another short motor for that side(likely best to that anyway) and it would be smoooooth sailing anyway.you just need to modify the housing a bit to make it fit and spin freely.

now,where your double pulley is,that you are asking about,the windstar fan shroud ground down about 1/4" and then adjusted using the bolt and nut(s) method that you see,to hold the fan blade away from the radiator so it doesn't rub,i measure a dang near on the spot 4" maybe about 1/8' under.but if you plan on 4" you'll have it with a little grinding of the shroud/just the right setting of the top pass side custom made bolt adjuster.

i don't see the pass side being a problem for you at all,even with that extra pulley.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

if for some reason,you cant run the 110" (or shorter) belt,to swing your adjuster over,you can always mod in the smaller motor for that side.
you'd have to plan on another $30 or so,from ebay i see.
local yard may be cheaper.
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♠ Chip Truck: '93 F250HD XLT 4x4 1st Gen Navistar 444ci IDI Diesel w/ Intercooled 2nd Gen Banks Sidewinder Turbo, E40D, 3.55, Dually, 9' Dump, & Plow ♠

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  #105  
Old 02-12-2011, 06:36 PM
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Thanks a lot XLT, I appreciate it!
I see where you're concerned at the back of the drivers' side fan motor.
I think I'll take your advice and look at putting a short motor there. If nothing else, it'd remove a frustration when changing belts...
With any luck, I'll be doing a 6.9L, & I can do the fan setup when the radiator is out.

Thanks!
Phy
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Old 02-12-2011, 06:36 PM
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