electric fan conversion ?
#63
07-18-2010, 12:54 AM
#64
07-18-2010, 11:00 AM
If the fan spins with no resistance at all, no good.
If it will not turn, no good.
Even though the fan does turn while the engine is running, you can stop it if the fan clutch is not locked up.
But that don't mean it is good, it still has to lock up when the engine temp increases.
I ran two 16" or 18" Flex Lite fans on mine when I tried it.
They were enough to cool the engine, even while pulling decent loads.
But my problem was the blades flew off or the motor burned up about one a year.
When one blade comes off, it is so out of balance the fan is done.
So figure 70 dollars times 2 every year.
That is not much different than replacing a stock fan clutch every year.
If it will not turn, no good.
Even though the fan does turn while the engine is running, you can stop it if the fan clutch is not locked up.
But that don't mean it is good, it still has to lock up when the engine temp increases.
I ran two 16" or 18" Flex Lite fans on mine when I tried it.
They were enough to cool the engine, even while pulling decent loads.
But my problem was the blades flew off or the motor burned up about one a year.
When one blade comes off, it is so out of balance the fan is done.
So figure 70 dollars times 2 every year.
That is not much different than replacing a stock fan clutch every year.
#65
07-18-2010, 02:52 PM
#66
09-25-2010, 10:55 PM
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Well, I have read over the last year or so that electric fans won't cool the engine enough. But a lot of the posts are what people have read, and took it as gospel, and now that's the rule. That's ok, I do the same thing.
I don't hear many posts that say "I have tried that and it didn't work". And after my truck overheated two different times, I decided I had to do something. Here are some facts I feel are reasonably true;
The original clutch fan works well, but is sometimes a little late to come on. It usually comes on at the last minute and cools the engine, but it gets a little scary till it does. Some people modify the spring on the front of the clutch to make them come on sooner, but;
The biggest problem with the clutch fan is buying on that will work and last. With the aftermarket clutches that are sold for $140-150, there is a high failure rate. Some don't work right out of the box, and some do not last very long at all. There are a lot of posts saying "I went and bought one and it didn't work".
So I was weighing in on my options, with the money I had available, and I do the very thing that is not recommended. I bought two aftermarket 16 inch fans. These are not Taurus or any other stock type fan, these are $70 fans right off the local parts store shelf. I made a bracket, and mounted both, they cover the whole width of the radiator, and about 75% vertically. I mounted the fans toward the top, since that's where the hot water enters.
They draw about 20 amps each according to the specs, and my volt gauge tells me my stock alternator seems to handle both fans fine with no power loss. I can't remember exactly, but I believe each fan draws 1600-2000 cfm. This cfm is not enough according to previous conversations on the boards, but we will see. I have been running the truck, and it's running cooler than it did with the broken fan clutch, but I haven't had a long hard pull on it on a hot day. When I give it with what I feel is a hard enough pull where it should overheat, I will get back on here and tell you for sure, yes it works great, yes it works but barely, or no it does not cool the truck sufficiently at all.
I don't hear many posts that say "I have tried that and it didn't work". And after my truck overheated two different times, I decided I had to do something. Here are some facts I feel are reasonably true;
The original clutch fan works well, but is sometimes a little late to come on. It usually comes on at the last minute and cools the engine, but it gets a little scary till it does. Some people modify the spring on the front of the clutch to make them come on sooner, but;
The biggest problem with the clutch fan is buying on that will work and last. With the aftermarket clutches that are sold for $140-150, there is a high failure rate. Some don't work right out of the box, and some do not last very long at all. There are a lot of posts saying "I went and bought one and it didn't work".
So I was weighing in on my options, with the money I had available, and I do the very thing that is not recommended. I bought two aftermarket 16 inch fans. These are not Taurus or any other stock type fan, these are $70 fans right off the local parts store shelf. I made a bracket, and mounted both, they cover the whole width of the radiator, and about 75% vertically. I mounted the fans toward the top, since that's where the hot water enters.
They draw about 20 amps each according to the specs, and my volt gauge tells me my stock alternator seems to handle both fans fine with no power loss. I can't remember exactly, but I believe each fan draws 1600-2000 cfm. This cfm is not enough according to previous conversations on the boards, but we will see. I have been running the truck, and it's running cooler than it did with the broken fan clutch, but I haven't had a long hard pull on it on a hot day. When I give it with what I feel is a hard enough pull where it should overheat, I will get back on here and tell you for sure, yes it works great, yes it works but barely, or no it does not cool the truck sufficiently at all.
Some people use their trucks differently. I am not going to say the electric fans work, when I am not using the engine to it's full capacity. Putt-putting around empty or with a small "pickup" load of something on the truck is not a full blown fair test. In these situations, yes I can see where you probably could get away without a fan.
What I am talking about is going up a mountain with at least 5000 lbs + behind with a trailer, pedal to the floor, and you are trying to keep it at 45mph. That's when it's going to get hot, and you need all the air flow and radiator you can get.
What I am talking about is going up a mountain with at least 5000 lbs + behind with a trailer, pedal to the floor, and you are trying to keep it at 45mph. That's when it's going to get hot, and you need all the air flow and radiator you can get.
updated on OBN Today, 11:03 PM :
Well, I thought I would bring this old thread back for a update. I believe it was in one of the other fan/cooling threads I mentioned I converted to two 16" electric fans. These were not Taurus or any other factory fan, they were new off the shelf 16" fans from the local Advance store, #226116, 1,400 cfm each. I used both side by side.
I can now tell you for sure, they are not enough to cool the truck. But it took all summer to figure it out. Hauling loads around town is no problem, no matter what the size load, A/C on too. When I got into trouble was going camping, fully loaded, at interstate speeds going up some long hills. This is where you have it floored for long periods of time, doing 45mph or less in 4th gear or less. It gets hotter and hotter.
I also have verification on the factory gauge system. I left the stock gauge in place, but added a mech temp gauge in the driver's side head, eliminating the overtemp switch. I remember when it was all stock, my temp gauge would go up to about the "A" in "NORMAL", and then would peg over to hot and the engine light would come on. Watching it the other day with the mech gauge, when the factory gauge reaches the "A", the new mech gauge is reading approx 240F. When the mech gauge started approaching 250f, I pulled over and let it cool off for about 15 min.
Some other things I have learned that you may already know, but I can confirm;
-You will need a bigger alternator if you run fans larger than these. These fans were rated at approx 20 amps each. So this took 40 amps from the stock alternator. I never had a problem with this, but I could tell it was at the limit when the fans were on, the A/C was on with the blower on high, and the headlights were on. If you run the required higher cfm fans, they are definitely going to pull more amps(can't get something for nothing right?) and the stock alt is definitely not going to handle the load properly.
-Remember to tie the A/C system into the new electric fan setup. I didn't, and had the high pressure relief valve pop-off on me on the A/C compressor. This means you need to run relays to power the fans. You also need to install a blocker diode in this A/C tie in, or when the thermostat kicks on to run the fans it will kick on the A/C compressor.
What I did today was re-install the factory clutch fan and shroud, and used some small angle iron cut, drilled, and welded to bolt the fan blades to the waterpump pulley. This locked the fan together, and after a test drive, I didn't hear or see anything I didn't like. I could only hear the fan roar a little bit if I got over 2000 rpm. With the overdrive now, I rarely go over 2000 rpm, and I am thinking if I am pulling hard in a lower gear, I should be at or over 2000 rpm and that fan roar hopefully will be a good thing. I will have to wait and see how this works, but I hope it does, since this is the last resort for my heavy hauling/cooling problem.
I can now tell you for sure, they are not enough to cool the truck. But it took all summer to figure it out. Hauling loads around town is no problem, no matter what the size load, A/C on too. When I got into trouble was going camping, fully loaded, at interstate speeds going up some long hills. This is where you have it floored for long periods of time, doing 45mph or less in 4th gear or less. It gets hotter and hotter.
I also have verification on the factory gauge system. I left the stock gauge in place, but added a mech temp gauge in the driver's side head, eliminating the overtemp switch. I remember when it was all stock, my temp gauge would go up to about the "A" in "NORMAL", and then would peg over to hot and the engine light would come on. Watching it the other day with the mech gauge, when the factory gauge reaches the "A", the new mech gauge is reading approx 240F. When the mech gauge started approaching 250f, I pulled over and let it cool off for about 15 min.
Some other things I have learned that you may already know, but I can confirm;
-You will need a bigger alternator if you run fans larger than these. These fans were rated at approx 20 amps each. So this took 40 amps from the stock alternator. I never had a problem with this, but I could tell it was at the limit when the fans were on, the A/C was on with the blower on high, and the headlights were on. If you run the required higher cfm fans, they are definitely going to pull more amps(can't get something for nothing right?) and the stock alt is definitely not going to handle the load properly.
-Remember to tie the A/C system into the new electric fan setup. I didn't, and had the high pressure relief valve pop-off on me on the A/C compressor. This means you need to run relays to power the fans. You also need to install a blocker diode in this A/C tie in, or when the thermostat kicks on to run the fans it will kick on the A/C compressor.
What I did today was re-install the factory clutch fan and shroud, and used some small angle iron cut, drilled, and welded to bolt the fan blades to the waterpump pulley. This locked the fan together, and after a test drive, I didn't hear or see anything I didn't like. I could only hear the fan roar a little bit if I got over 2000 rpm. With the overdrive now, I rarely go over 2000 rpm, and I am thinking if I am pulling hard in a lower gear, I should be at or over 2000 rpm and that fan roar hopefully will be a good thing. I will have to wait and see how this works, but I hope it does, since this is the last resort for my heavy hauling/cooling problem.
#67
09-26-2010, 09:08 PM
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Direct drive engine fan is the way to go. No other setup can deliver the same amount of air. Some trucks its very necessary. An IDI and C6 auto will overheat all day at 60mph. Theres just not enough air flow to keep up with the heat produced at that speed and load. You will drive yourself crazy replacing thermostats and rodding ur radiator. The stock fan clutch is good for rpms below 2000. Theres several ways of locking up the fan clutch. One is to drill holes through the clutch and put bolts through it. This makes a rattling noise at idle and if not lock tighted on it will spin off upon shutdown. The best way is to make two brackets and bolt them to the water pump and clutch bolts. Like the guy above me said. Sure it takes away fuel mileage, but it will keep your engine cool. Okay now ive done this on a truck with cooling problems. IDI c6 auto. Loaded going up hill without direct drive mod. Highest temp reached was a scorching 245. With cooling fan mod: 210. No more overheat "engine" light coming on. Factory gauge middle ways. Its just necessary on some trucks. If youre worried about not having heat in the winter, take off the brackets! If you drill holes in ur clutch, uh, ur in it for the long haul unless you want to buy an extra one.
#68
09-26-2010, 10:01 PM
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09-26-2010, 10:24 PM
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#72
09-26-2010, 11:35 PM
This summer I came close to running hot a couple of times during hard runs in a heat wave. I'm wondering if my fan clutch might be going out because I don't recall ever hearing it come on. Although thats going by the factory gauge so who kows how accurate that really is.
Winter is coming and that means the fan will come off pretty soon LOL! (maybe I can finally punch through the 25 MPG barrier!)
Winter is coming and that means the fan will come off pretty soon LOL! (maybe I can finally punch through the 25 MPG barrier!)
#73
12-09-2010, 09:51 PM
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This summer I came close to running hot a couple of times during hard runs in a heat wave. I'm wondering if my fan clutch might be going out because I don't recall ever hearing it come on. Although thats going by the factory gauge so who kows how accurate that really is.
Winter is coming and that means the fan will come off pretty soon LOL! (maybe I can finally punch through the 25 MPG barrier!)
Winter is coming and that means the fan will come off pretty soon LOL! (maybe I can finally punch through the 25 MPG barrier!)
what's the cfm rating on the stock mechanical?
this a copy from some forum via google:
I spoke with Dorman today and they make the OEM DORMAN Part # 620131...... The tech gave me results from the test sheets that they had on file and I thought I would share it with the board for guys looking for a budget friendly electrical fan assembly.
The fans are $106 at Rock Auto, but I am sure they can be found in the junkyard or salvage yard for less........
Test Results:
2000 Ford Windstar Fan Assembly
left fan: 340ml= 13.3inches
right fan: 390ml=15.3inches
left fan: 60.3cmm=2129.193cfm
right fan: 64.4cmm=2273.964cfm
this was rated at 1935 RPMS
4403.157 cfm total......
ml= milliters
cmm= cubic meters per minute
cfm= cubic feet per minute
conversion from cmm to cfm done by cmm x 35.31= cfm
Only $106..... dorman 99-03 ford windstar fan 6 blades but bigger fan blades.
The 94-98 dorman fans has 8 blades but smaller blades. I don t know if the having more blades are better or if its the design of the blade thats better.......
The fans are $106 at Rock Auto, but I am sure they can be found in the junkyard or salvage yard for less........
Test Results:
2000 Ford Windstar Fan Assembly
left fan: 340ml= 13.3inches
right fan: 390ml=15.3inches
left fan: 60.3cmm=2129.193cfm
right fan: 64.4cmm=2273.964cfm
this was rated at 1935 RPMS
4403.157 cfm total......
ml= milliters
cmm= cubic meters per minute
cfm= cubic feet per minute
conversion from cmm to cfm done by cmm x 35.31= cfm
Only $106..... dorman 99-03 ford windstar fan 6 blades but bigger fan blades.
The 94-98 dorman fans has 8 blades but smaller blades. I don t know if the having more blades are better or if its the design of the blade thats better.......
i couldn't find the oem specs on these fans anywhere.
if you check the tech article at OBN "electric fans...take 2" for the 9th gen trucks,he used the windstar fans because they are the closest fit he claims.however '96.i couldn't find the cfm rating on those ones.
also note he pulled the smaller fan,so he could run two of the larger fans.according the '2k yr,there doesn't appear to be much of a difference to justify the expense or $ for that mod.
i ran all summer without a working fan clutch and didn't overheat so im not worried at all (remember i drive like granny,unless i see a hill and loaded up.)
what would someone estimate the CFM rating of the stock when unlocked?
so far we have learned the aftermarket fans (flex-o-lite) just wont cut it.we need to move on from those.
we have no one here yet to claim the e-fans from the 3.8l cars wont either.
Ford Windstar fans
94-98 left.99-03 right.
#74
12-10-2010, 07:07 PM
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7.3l PSD 9th gen rigs
I am running dual electric fans on my 97, with a Manual transmission.
I pulled 22000 lbs GCWR across the land fill scale, it was an hour haul 45-55 mph up and down small hills on a windy road with multiple stop signs, I did not have my AE hooked up so I didn't have live oil temps, but I could see my 203 deg thermostat opening and closing the whole time. My fans never came on and the temp probe is set at 160 deg about one third down from the top of the radiator. So absolutely no issues with over heating. the outside temp was around 55-60 degrees. I do not have a shroud and my total install cost was about 80 bucks. I agree with RD and the rest of the guys, give it a shot try it out if you want to I enjoyed the install.
click here for the install write up.
As for the stock fan moving 5500CFM, yeah that may be true and accurate when your truck is running at 3000 rpm, but fan blade velocity has a huge impact on the amount of air moved. Google search the lift equation and you will see that the velocity value is squared when everything else is a one for one exchange. So a decrease from 3000 - 2000 rpm will decrease the CFM exponentially. Fishman is right your electric fans move the same all of the time.
All that said, if you have an auto tranny I would think real hard about putting in electrics if you tow, cause your tranny overheating is a lot more likely than your truck engine.
As for fuel savings if you increase 2 mpg from 18 -20 mpg in 18,000 miles you will have spent have put 1000 gallons in with the stock fan, and 900 with the electrics, at $3 a gallon that is a savings of $.016 per mile. I looked at installing electrics on my excursion, but the cost benefit was not good enough for me.
I pulled 22000 lbs GCWR across the land fill scale, it was an hour haul 45-55 mph up and down small hills on a windy road with multiple stop signs, I did not have my AE hooked up so I didn't have live oil temps, but I could see my 203 deg thermostat opening and closing the whole time. My fans never came on and the temp probe is set at 160 deg about one third down from the top of the radiator. So absolutely no issues with over heating. the outside temp was around 55-60 degrees. I do not have a shroud and my total install cost was about 80 bucks. I agree with RD and the rest of the guys, give it a shot try it out if you want to I enjoyed the install.
click here for the install write up.
As for the stock fan moving 5500CFM, yeah that may be true and accurate when your truck is running at 3000 rpm, but fan blade velocity has a huge impact on the amount of air moved. Google search the lift equation and you will see that the velocity value is squared when everything else is a one for one exchange. So a decrease from 3000 - 2000 rpm will decrease the CFM exponentially. Fishman is right your electric fans move the same all of the time.
All that said, if you have an auto tranny I would think real hard about putting in electrics if you tow, cause your tranny overheating is a lot more likely than your truck engine.
As for fuel savings if you increase 2 mpg from 18 -20 mpg in 18,000 miles you will have spent have put 1000 gallons in with the stock fan, and 900 with the electrics, at $3 a gallon that is a savings of $.016 per mile. I looked at installing electrics on my excursion, but the cost benefit was not good enough for me.
they make electric trans coolers,should your external tranny cooler not be up to the task for some reason.
(my B&M super cooler,i recently read at TCI's web site,is cooling my trans too much.im running below the ideal trans fluid's max efficiency rating 95% of the time.-yes last summer i mean,not just in these low temps now lol.they show a temp chart there.check it out.i'll have to block some of it off to get my avg trans temps up a bit.)
..........................
I agree and disagree with whats been posted. Yea the gauge is out that is for sure. The fans in my opinion keep up very well. I have looked at the ratings for what is required on our trucks, and my fans are moving more than what I'm required according to Ford. On a side note If you are moving at any rate above forty mph your fans probebly wont even need to come on. I swear mine dont come on for weeks sometimes. This is from my own experience, but I have not chipped mine nor do I tow large loads, but my truck has never heated up even close to a problem. I recommend it cause even if it dosen't save diesel(cause people like to argue this) you are saving the life of you water pump by not having to turn the fan, and the fans are only on when you need them so its just plain more efficante. As for the fuse you can get a led light to tell you when you fans are on or not and if you blow a fuse then you will know it cause the light wont come on, and FYI never had a fuse blow.
Con to fans you cant forge high waters, unless you remove you fuse to the fans and all you connections are really sealed up. Hope that helps
Con to fans you cant forge high waters, unless you remove you fuse to the fans and all you connections are really sealed up. Hope that helps
I can voucher for a load up to 5-6K, but that is all I have had since putting my fans on. I would like to get a hold of someone that has really been towing with fans and see what they have experienced. I just cant see them being a problem cause my truck doesn't even come close to a problem. hopefully someone that does will comment.
you guys keep talking about elec fans and how they cant keep up but there is a multitude of fans out there. prolly the most well known is the taurus fan (which is what i run) as well as the t-bird. they pull some really good air. i have yet to be impressed with any flex-a-lite fan as they are WAY over priced and over rated.
-cutts-
one thing everyone seems to agree on,is the stock gauges being junk lol.
#75
12-23-2010, 11:15 PM
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1995 Dual Electric OEM (used oem.not an "oem replacement")Ford Windstar Engine Fan Assembly W/Delta Current Control Two speed fan controller #2SP
on they're way.
she run all summer just fine loaded up and going down the road without a locking fan clutch,but plowing without a fan doesn't work.
had to slow right down and let her cool a couple times late last night.
this should keep her cool.
this controller is quite impressive really.im glad i took my time to research things first.
this guy explains 'em well here:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ontroller.html
more in depth info here:
http://www.dccontrol.com/techwrk.htm
very easy to hookup too.
instructions attached.
total price of used e-fans and new controller = less than the stock fan clutch from AZ.
they are sold here:
http://www.dccontrol.com/fancontrol.htm
the 2sp controller is not the variable rate controller.however it is all turn key,and forget it installation.it does have the option to hook yellow wire directly to bat,for a couple min fan run,to help cool down and turns off auto as well.
on they're way.
she run all summer just fine loaded up and going down the road without a locking fan clutch,but plowing without a fan doesn't work.
had to slow right down and let her cool a couple times late last night.
this should keep her cool.
this controller is quite impressive really.im glad i took my time to research things first.
this guy explains 'em well here:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ontroller.html
more in depth info here:
http://www.dccontrol.com/techwrk.htm
very easy to hookup too.
instructions attached.
total price of used e-fans and new controller = less than the stock fan clutch from AZ.
they are sold here:
http://www.dccontrol.com/fancontrol.htm
the 2sp controller is not the variable rate controller.however it is all turn key,and forget it installation.it does have the option to hook yellow wire directly to bat,for a couple min fan run,to help cool down and turns off auto as well.