After searching everything on here I could find, I thought I would toss this out there to everyone. Have a '00 F350, V10. It's a crewcab long bed, 4wd. Engine has about 37k miles on it. Trans about 10. About two weeks ago it started missing under load, and had a rough idle. Pulled codes and got P0300 and then P0174. Never a specific misfire, only random, and only a lean condition on bank two. Here is what I have done since. Replaced all the coil boots, which seems to have solved the P0300, and it no longer heads uphill like it is towing a small island, but still has a definate rough idle and miss under load. Replaced the fuel filter. Cleaned all injector and coil connections. Checked for vacuum leaks (cannot seem to find any, but they could be hiding, and I presume unless it is bad enough to make a lot of noise, it would not cause a huge problem under load...correct me if I am wrong, please). Checked PCV, and hoses. Isolated EGR and differential pressure sensor. Truck had heads pulled and headers put on about two months ago, ran like a champ after that. Put on Ford Motorsport headers and Remflex gaskets. Great shop, don't suspect shoddy work. Cleaned MAF, cleaned connectors for MAF, IAT, etc.

Interesting things I have found so far. 7 of 10 injector connectors have broken retaining clips. No 1 injector connector is just cracked beyond repair. Wiggling individual connectors at idle seems to have no effect on rough idle.

So I guess after checking fuel pressure, if it's within limits, I am at a loss. Could it be vacuum I am just not finding; crank sensor; failing fuel pump; plugged cat; a failing sensor that is not setting its own code? The ONLY code thrown is P0174, lean condition bank 2. The only other code was the P0300, which has not come back since the boot replacement (one of the springs was really crappy at the coil). Could I just have bad plugs that have not recovered from the other problems? I wondered if the PCM was dumping fuel up to the limit into bank 2, and then throwing the lean code once out of limits, because you can HEAR the cat cooking on shutdown. It has contracting metal crackle like I just cooked it with a torch. SO, could be a faulty bank 2 O2 sensor that is just not working properly? I disconnected the after cat sensor to see if it would throw a code, and it did, so I gather it would tell me if the cat was toasted.

It's kinda like playing Clue, except that no has died, yet.

ANY ideas, help, etc, will be greatly appreciated. Virtual beer for everyone who drinks it for the help! If you don't drink, I won't hug you, but I will be your friend.



Steve

I will be checking fuel pressure tomorrow.

 

When I replaced the engine in my Navigator we found several of the electrical connectors cracked or broken on the original harness and ghanged them out with the connectors from the ruined donor harness and had a miss just like what you describe and lean bank 1 and 2 codes. The codes were unrelated but caused a lot of confusion. It turned out that the injector clips would not hold properly and required a bit of tweeking to stay connected. Now that that is out of the way there are no other problems with my Navigator.

 

I want to believe that is what it is. Not that new connectors are inexpensive, but once done, they are done. I really have narrowed the possible culprits to those connectors, or the FPR, and perhaps a combination. Going to do the O2 sensors as well, since it's time- no indications of trouble, but I am a fan of replacing them before the 100k mile mark.

Before I did the boots on the coils, things were much more up in the air, but I can't recommend to people strongly enough to just do the boots, once a year. Cheap insurance, easy to do. In fact, make it a part of a plug change, since the coils are off anyway.

Anyway, had to order a fuel pressure tester, will be here in the morning, so will do the numbers tomorrow and see what is what.

I have not traced all the wiring for the injectors/coils. Do you know if the harness terminates in a large connector somewhere, or does it all loom into one big mass to the computer? It would be nice if I could simply pull harness out and repair them, like I can on a lot of European cars, but I bet not.

 

Subscribed. If you have a lean in bank 2, concentrate on the bank 2 injectors (drivers side).

That elbow in the PCV plumbing at the throttle body is known to crack and cause all sorts of problems.

The engine harness is removable as a single piece. I think the connectors are on the driver's side front? (don't remember)

 

I find it interesting that I get a lean condition only on one side, in the sense that I'd normally think it was isolated to that one side, and likely a faulty injector or wiring, but I've talked to a couple people locally and online that have had a one bank lean condition that was caused by a MAF problem, or something else upstream that you'd think should have affected both banks. Hopefully I'll know more after I check fuel pressure this morning...at least eliminate or isolate the regulator or pump as the culprit. Do you think a faulty 02 sensor could affect its bank that much without setting its own code? I've never had one cause this kind of running without setting a code, but who knows.

Any thoughts on how to find out if it's one or more injectors on bank 2 without pulling them out and doing flow tests, etc? Normally that's what I would do, pull the injectors and test flow and spray pattern, but if there is a way to do it on our trucks that is easier, I am all ears!

 

Hey Steve - - Just saw your post and thought I'd check with you. I live in Brookings. Have a V10 in a 2001 CoachHouse motorhome. So far, the only project on the engine (which was a BIG project for me) was to install TimeSert steel spark plug inserts in all 10 cylinders.

My other big project was chassis related - - Tore out the entire rear leaf spring suspension and replaced it with a true air suspension - - no more leaf springs.

Thought I'd say hello to a neighbor.

Roger Haag - - Brookings - - 469-7378 - - We should spill some coffee together sometime.

 

Good Morning, Roger,

Coffee some time sounds great, and always good to meet neighbors, and even better when there are engines in common!

I may actually have figured the problem out...I am still planning on replacing some harness connectors, but I checked fuel pressure yesterday before heading out for the day's events, and got zero. I thought at first the gauge was dead, but turned out it was my pressure. I could hear the pump energize and pressurize the fuel lines when I turned the key, but I must have a regulator that is simply putting it right back to the tank. I start the truck, it idles lumpily, and it'll rev but not happily, and the gauge will jump a bit but it's not giving me anything more than, oh, 5psi at the rail. There seems to be enough for the injectors to suck in and spray out, but nothing like there should be.

Had Mike at Napa get a regulator for me, in at 10am this morning, will put it in tomorrow, and see what happens!

And off to the festivities! Heading out to get some coffee and doughnuts at the new bakery, and then to the port for the carshow. If you are heading down there, look for us in a teal Firebird with the T-tops off. And once I get the truck up and running, some joe sounds good.

Steve

 

When you get a chance, give me a phone call on the number I listed in my earlier post. I'd like to exchange email addresses so we won't be cluttering up this forum with off topic chatter.

And where is the bakery?? Is it the one they sort of revived that used to be Delaney's or is there a new one?

Roger

 

Hey Roger,

Just popped in to check mail and grab a few things, then off to some friends up river...will give you a call likely tomorrow. The bakery I was referring to is the Bakery by the Sea, which is kind of across the street from Napa on north Chetco, the row shops that just got the facelift.

You can shoot me email at capeferrelometalcraft@yahoo. Look forward to chatting with you off forum. And for everyone else, the FPR won't be in until Tues, but if that fixes the issue, I'll recap what I've done and what fixed it.

Steve

 

I discovered something I already knew about my truck, and should have considered a bit more...not that it makes a huge difference in the diagnosis...while my F350 is a 99, the engine is a takeout from an Excursion, and was made at the end of May, '99, which should make it a PI engine. Can someone verify that? So the FPR I ordered won't work, off to order the correct one. I don't have the manual in front of me, it's on another computer, but did the first year Excursion have a sensor in addition to the FPR (I see it has a vapor/recirc sensor, but I can't imagine that failing and giving me less than 10lbs or pressure at the rail). Any help is greatly appeciated!

 

Been busy, have not had time to post for a bit but here is the latest:

Checked fuel pressure:, 28psi not running, 40+psi with vacuum disco'd, and pressures where they should be with the engine on.
Changing all the boots cleared the misfire.
I still have rough idle...not searching, just rough, misfire-ish, and NO power up a hill...in fact the truck has a tough time even transferring power to the transmission at idle right now. Feels as though it's running open loop. I've ordered O2 sensors just because they are overdue, but don't expect those to clear up the problems. I've cleaned the MAF, but am going to look at it under a lens to make sure.
My scanner won't capture live data, so I am going to order one that will.
Now the new stuff...I have replaced all the vacuum lines I can find. I do have an interesting noise when I shut the engine off. It sounds, I swear, like a little kazoo, and as near as I can figure it's coming from around the EGR valve...anyone have this before?

I am also, just 'cause I can, going to pull the cat and see if it's clogged, though I don't think that is the problem, unless the issues I had dumped a bunch of raw fuel into it and I have had a small cascade of problems. But, it's not hard to do if the rain would stop!

Any thoughts on what I may be missing are appreciated. I assume that on the V10 a bad crank sensor or cam sensor would cause a no-start...that's been my experience with other cars that have them. That said, I had a Jeep 6 cyl with a dirty crank sensor that just acted funny, but didn't hand out a start/no-start. Food for thought.

I am still learning this beast, but whether it's my V10, my Audi I5, the wife's Cherokee I6, or the V6 in the Firebird, they all use similar sensors in similar ways, the truck just has more of most of them. I do know I have never had a car make a kazoo sound from an EGR before...has anyone had any problems doing an EGR delete? We don't need them here, in fact we don't smog here yet at all, and I am seriously considering capping it and taking it and the sensor out of the equation...I believe many of you have V10s with no factory EGRs, so I presume the EGR is an add-on to some engines, not a delete from many.

Anyway, kazoo sound, still idling rough but not searching, no power and runs stacatto, like a really rough limp home mode, trans having trouble getting power delivery from a stop, and new vacuum lines, new FPR, good fuel pressure. Answers, ideas, etc, appreciated.


Steve

 

Your PCM will complain about the EGR not being there. And it's a '99, and almost all the '99's I've heard of HAVE an EGR. 2000-2004 do not, as a rule, but even then, I think it's California emissions ones that do have an EGR (and a third O2 sensor).

That "kazoo" sound is not right. Is it possible the EGR is leaking exhaust gas even at idle (when it should)?

ALSO - 28 psi engine-not-running is not right. If you cycle the key a few times and watch the gauge, what does it do? It should be the same as "running" with the vacuum disconnected from the fuel regulator.

 

I haven't cycled the key, will do that this morning. The pressure is only 28psi when the key is turned to the on position, and with vacuum to the FPR connected. Once I disconnect vacuum, I get 40psi, and I think I got 35-40 psi with the engine running, but am going to recheck my numbers.

The kazoo sound I think is coming from the EGR, and I am guessing it's a failed diaphragm. The engine in the truck is out of an Excursion, and the tag shows a May 28, 1999 build date...seems right on the cusp for a model year changeover, though all Excursions were 2000 models, were they not? I know removing the EGR will throw a code, unless I fool the PCM or reprogram it, but I may live with that just to get some empirical data on how it affects the engine.

I also now think the kazoo sound was present when the trouble started with the engine, but that I wasn't listening for odd sounds, just going down a checklist of things to look at. The original misfire code lead me to replace all the boots, and that cleared it right up. I replaced a couple of aging vacuum lines, and put a new FPR in and new fuel filter, and it again runs a bit better...don't seem to be getting the lean bank 2 code. In process of tying down all the injector connectors to eliminate them, and am ordering a scanner that will give me live data so I can guess less. Also have 2 new O2 sensors on the way, which if not the problem are due for replacement anyway.

Back to the kazoo sound...of course it's only loud enough to hear when the engine is shut off, and I sounds like a diaphragm leak trying to equalize pressure...hence the vibration/kazoo sound. I will be taking out the EGR this weekend to see if I can isolate it as the sound/cause.

And thanks for all your help and ideas...have to say, it's great to belong to a forum where the knowledge level is so high and so freely shared. Not always the case.

 

Update: Pulled EGR valve...as I am cleaning it out, something happens that I've not seen on any EGR valve I have cleaned, but perhaps it's ok on Motorcraft parts(?); carb cleaner starts to flow out from around the shaft at the diaphragm. That is, as I am holding the EGR valve with the manifold port up, I fill the valve body with cleaner, and if I tilt the diaphragm end down even a bit, the cleaner starts to run out at the diaphragm. My instinct says I have unregulated air getting in there, the diaphragm has maybe failed, and perhaps there is enough vacuum at the manifold port to pull the valve open when the engine is running. Any thoughts? Also, when I hold it upside down, and fill the valve end with cleaner, there is little bit of leakage past the valve, which I attribute to carbon buildup. But the other leakage I have never seen.

 

That might have been a bit of carbon that fell out and there may be some more in there. I think you should replace the EGR as that may have been the problem all along.