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Old 02-02-2003, 10:49 PM
4starcstms 4starcstms is offline
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Post Step By Step Paintwork

Okay here it is folks! The following is written with the assumption that you have done the proper bodywork, and have sanded the area with at least 320 grit sandpaper, and or scuffed with a Red scotch pad (p/n 07447 from 3m). And that you have masked off the panels to be sprayed. If you need help with those items, please let us know, we'll be glad to help!


Step One: Pre Clean. We use Dupont final Klean. It flashes off quickly in the cold months. Using two different, clean paper (prefer LINT FREE) towels, put the PreCLeaner on one, and the other dry, Wipe on and wipe off. Work in Small areas so that it does not dry before you can wipe the excess off.

Step Two: Mix and Spray the primer. Telling you howto mix the primer is not possible, different primers are mixed different ways, All that I have seen have a Primer, and a catalyst (to make it harden). Most can be reduced (thinned) to make them flow better in colder temps. You want to Spray the primer in a Med/Wet coat. HOld the gun approx 6 to 8 inches from the panel with about a 25% overlap. YOu will just have to get a feel for how fast to move, for it changes on viscosity (thickness) of material being sprayed. The coat should look smooth and shiny. If it is Dry or you put runs in it, don't worry, you have to sand it anyway. FLash time between coats will vary. You want the panel to appear dull, not shiny.

Step Three: Guide Coat. Once the primer has dried using some kind of paint, rattle can, excess paint from other projects, LIGHTLY spray the primer. the idea is to show you, when your sanding, the high and low spots.

Step Four: SAND (Everybody's FAVORITE part). Begin sanding with 400 grit wetdry sandpaper and a sanding block. Sand till all of the guide coat is gone, Dry panel, repeat step three. SAnd with 500 grit...and so on until you reach 600 grit sandpaper. The panel should now be smooth free of runs, chips, dry spots and NO metal showing (if you sanded thru dont worry just repeat Step two and let Flash off)

After this step you should Unmask and after sanding Wash the vehicle with normal soap and water. Rinse. For the panels being sprayed Blow dry with compressed air and a papertowel to soak up excess water. then Remask the vehicle.

Step Five: Pre CLEAN (again)

Step Six: Color Coats. The fun part. Okay First thing you should do is go over the panel with a Tack Rag to remove any loose particles. DO NOT PRESS Just gently run it over the panel. Spray some kind of adhesion promoter on panel, Like DuPont 222.
Begin spraying 8 to 12 inches from panel with a 50% overlap, you dont want a wet coat, ALWAYS apply light coats. Move faster than with Primer, you will not see a color change all at once.
Flash between coats shouldbe around 5 minutes.

Between COLOR and CLEAR coats let 30 minutes elapse


Step Seven: Clear Coat. The big change. Tack off the color as before. Begin spraying the clear again 8 to 12 inches from the panel, Slower than the color coat. A medium coat will suffice. You want the clear to level itself out and not be to thick or too thin. There will be SOME orange peel, and some dirt in the panel, this cannot be helped.

Drying times will vary with different products. We currently use a clear from Keystone products called KWIK clear, it will dry in 45 minutes @ 130 degree's.

Hope this helps, if I have omitted something please, tell me.
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2003, 11:08 PM
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Step By Step Paintwork

I knew there was more then just sand, prime, paint, and clear.

One question: After step 6, can debris and runs be sanded out? And if so, can I respray the area without redoing the entire panel?
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  #3  
Old 02-02-2003, 11:12 PM
4starcstms 4starcstms is offline
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Step By Step Paintwork

Yes you can use 1500 or 2000 gritpaper to sand out debree's. You shouldnt be spraying anywhere close to haveing a run. very light coats. =) Rember that color is VERY thin
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Old 02-03-2003, 02:17 PM
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Step By Step Paintwork

Quote:
Originally posted by 4starcstms

Step Four: SAND (Everybody's FAVORITE part). Begin sanding with 400 grit wetdry sandpaper and a sanding block. Sand till all of the guide coat is gone, Dry panel, repeat step three. SAnd with 500 grit...and so on until you reach 600 grit sandpaper. The panel should now be smooth free of runs, chips, dry spots and NO metal showing (if you sanded thru dont worry just repeat Step two and let Flash off)
I see you mention wetdry paper, but are you supposed to wet sand or dry sand?

Also, is this step for all types of primer? I'm using PPG and the instructions I received were to put the color on within 20 min's of spraying a final epoxy coat of primer.

Quote:
Step Seven: Clear Coat. The big change. Tack off the color as before. Begin spraying the clear again 8 to 12 inches from the panel, Slower than the color coat. A medium coat will suffice. You want the clear to level itself out and not be to thick or too thin. There will be SOME orange peel, and some dirt in the panel, this cannot be helped.
What compounds and paper do you use to finish off the clear?

How long after spraying can you sand (and wet or dry)?

How many coats are recommended? Since I'm going with a rather drab green, I want it to look as deep as possible.

How long do I wait between coats? And do I sand (wet or dry) between coats?

Nice thread Scott. I'm sure I'll have more questions later.
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Last edited by Carlene; 02-03-2003 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 02-03-2003, 05:06 PM
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Step By Step Paintwork

One question: After step 6, can debris and runs be sanded out?

A lot of good information, only one area where I have a problem and that is in the sanding of the color coat. Everything I have read states that you should not sand the color coat if you’re using metallic. I realize metallic paints have not been mentioned and your response may not have been intended to cover them.

What is your recommended approach to spaying metallic paint?
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  #6  
Old 02-03-2003, 06:49 PM
4starcstms 4starcstms is offline
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Step By Step Paintwork

Quote:
Originally posted by carlene
I see you mention wetdry paper, but are you supposed to wet sand or dry sand?

Also, is this step for all types of primer? I'm using PPG and the instructions I received were to put the color on within 20 min's of spraying a final epoxy coat of primer.



What compounds and paper do you use to finish off the clear?

How long after spraying can you sand (and wet or dry)?

How many coats are recommended? Since I'm going with a rather drab green, I want it to look as deep as possible.

How long do I wait between coats? And do I sand (wet or dry) between coats?

Nice thread Scott. I'm sure I'll have more questions later.
You can start with 320 Dry paper, but need to finish off with 600 Wet. To make the paper go a little farther, put a couple of drops of Dish Soap in the water (spray bottle works well)

As for the Epoxy... ICK! that stuff gets REALLY hard..if you can avoid using it, please do. I am unsure if PPG makes an adhesion promoter (DuPont 222). You need to use that to make the paint stick.


For Color Sanding, Start with 1500 grit and stay away from the edes and bodylines, work to 2000 grit paper, then buff. 3m Makes some nice compounds but any type of rubbing compound will work. Finish that off with some polishing compound. I'll do a seperate thing on that if you'd like.
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  #7  
Old 02-03-2003, 06:52 PM
4starcstms 4starcstms is offline
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Step By Step Paintwork

Quote:
Originally posted by Huntsman
One question: After step 6, can debris and runs be sanded out?

A lot of good information, only one area where I have a problem and that is in the sanding of the color coat. Everything I have read states that you should not sand the color coat if you’re using metallic. I realize metallic paints have not been mentioned and your response may not have been intended to cover them.

What is your recommended approach to spaying metallic paint?
I havent tried sanding metallic color yet... BUT if you sand it , then spray on another coat shouldnt be a problem.
Everybody has their own method to spray metallic colors, what ive found works best is to Spray the panel as normal then turn up the air pressure on the Gun and hold 2 to 2.5 feet away and Mist the panel. Seems to work pretty good.
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  #8  
Old 02-03-2003, 10:04 PM
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Step By Step Paintwork

Really?? 2 feet and then mist?

3M does make good buffing compounds.

Last edited by Open_Slot; 02-03-2003 at 10:06 PM.
  #9  
Old 02-04-2003, 11:38 AM
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Step By Step Paintwork

"the instructions I received were to put the color on within 20 min's of spraying a final epoxy coat of primer. " - Carlene

Final prime with PPG should be a "sealer" not an epoxy. (unless using DP 40, 48, 50, 74, 90 with DP 401 slow or 402 fast in a 1:1 WITH a 1/2 part of DT reducer 860, 870, 885 OR DTL thinner 16, 876, as a "sealer") (in a lacquer system that is)

All sanding should be completed by the sealer stage to avoid sand scratch swell with the next application. But nibs can be dealt with through the entire process.

Recoat times vary with each and every system.

Lacquer over Enamels is possible with many steps, with different flash and recoat times, but is a different from enamel over lacquer.

It's a puzzle. Starting with what finish you have ie: enamel, lacquer, Urethane. And ending with what finish you want. The chemistry to "get there" and the steps involved are all different, if you want a stand up job when your done.

Questions: "What finish do you have? Are you doing the whole truck from bare metal? What is your final finish? What is Your Visa card number and exp. date?

Taking a guess here, your going acrylic enamel over alkyd enamel and the 20 minute limit is to avoid "lifting". Or...never mind.

Conditioners, etchings, epoxy's, surfacer's, additives, eliminators, sealer's, adhesion's, and cleaners are all different and have different applications - but do come with vivid instructions for there applications and compatiable, counter components.

Scott, Hats off to you!
It is impossible to address all systems in a readable post. And of course this opens the age old exponetial greek version of Pandora's Box - "Answer one question: create two new questions".

There, I tried stringing a few words together. See why I didn't want too? style

Last edited by stylesider; 02-04-2003 at 11:42 AM.
  #10  
Old 02-04-2003, 11:59 AM
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Step By Step Paintwork

Hi Style - Welcome to FTE. It sound's like you and Scott will have your hands full with us.

I'm using PPG DP40/DP401

Starting from bare metal, Ospho'd, etching primer, epoxy primer, body filler where necessary, epoxy primer (I didn't like working with the High Build primer), I'm at the stage of puff can misting to see what I missed, final epoxy coat, then base/clear. It's probably an overkill, but at least I'm having fun.

You'll have to call me for my Visa #. Phone BR-549.
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  #11  
Old 02-04-2003, 04:22 PM
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Step By Step Paintwork

Having fun is the goal, right?
However, if you add "fish eye" preventer or any other additive to that DP 401/ 40 the fun will stop.

Although to make that last prime run a "sealer" after your "puff" you CAN add a 1/2 part of DT or DTL to the mix. Just which one to add will be dictated by the temp. in your location.

DX 330 is a very nice cleaner to work with when you get there. (low VOC)

What I know of it is that all sufacers suck to work with. Websters has a photo of a DZ Kondar can under the word "work".

So your base paint is acrylic enamel?

I tried calling but got a recording stating that number was disconnected. Pay your phone bill and I'll try it agin. BTW, you live in Burma?

Beware the vapors, style

disclaimer: what I have suggested here does NOT take into account all other factors, as I do NOT know all of what your doing. Your P-sheets are your gospel.
  #12  
Old 02-13-2003, 07:52 PM
68_PoolvilleTX 68_PoolvilleTX is offline
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Step By Step Paintwork

Ive seen alot of 50's mercury and chevy hotrods that look like they were only painted with either primer gray or primer black (you know, they are always chopped and have flames on them). They have a very dull finish that I like and am wanting to reproduce on my project. My question is, how do they get the dull "primer" finish? Is it a type of paint they are using or is it really just the primer or are they leaving off the clearcoat? If it is just the primer they are using, how does the weather affect it/will it fade?
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Old 02-13-2003, 10:05 PM
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Step By Step Paintwork

Go get some black primer from wal-mart and buff it a dry primed piece, you'll prolly have what you want.
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Old 02-14-2003, 02:47 AM
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Step By Step Paintwork

68,

Different primers (etching, epoxy, sealer, surfacer, adheasion...) perform different jobs: but not one the them has "Final finish" listed in there job discriptions.

Primer alone puts your metal at risk. Not that your fenders fall off a week later, but risk none the less. Even sealers. Read p sheet closely.

Dull finished top coat? You could shoot it with enamel, skip the clear paint, and then take a drive through Yuma Arizona using the scenic roads in August. That should give you the look you want - or you could ask the guys in the CHEVY hotrods.

Note: Talking to people who drive chevy's, concerning automotive issues, may cost you three (3) restoration points.

Note: "general purpose" primer is a waste of time, effort, the environment, and money.

Lets say you need a pace maker. You can have the "Spengler Bio-pace cardial unit" or a "general purpose" model. Comes down to what's important to you.
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Old 02-14-2003, 01:10 PM
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Step By Step Paintwork

You can buy an additive call a flattener from auto-paint stores that flattens the gloss. My understanding is that the best procedure is to shoot different panels with different amounts of the additive until you achieve the desired level of flatness, then mix and shoot with that ratio.
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Old 02-14-2003, 01:10 PM
 
 
 
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