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  #16  
Old 02-14-2003, 01:23 PM
68_PoolvilleTX 68_PoolvilleTX is offline
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thnx, i think im gonna look into those flatteners.
heres a link to a picture of what im looking for if you dont know

http://autohobbypage.com/cgi-bin/02/...pbo/nat138.jpg
  #17  
Old 02-14-2003, 09:28 PM
Open_Slot Open_Slot is offline
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Step By Step Paintwork

Ya Stylesider, but what wasn't paint a good % of tree sap in those days(1930's)?

Do you really think etchers, epoxies, sealers, surfacer, adheasion,... were around even in the 50's? And look at the paint on vehicles from that age.

NOTE: Listening to closed minded folks may yield hiden charges in unreadable fine print.

Last edited by Open_Slot; 02-14-2003 at 09:33 PM.
  #18  
Old 02-15-2003, 11:52 AM
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Paint technologies have advanced greatly in just the last few years: let alone half a century ago.
The rules have changed.

The use of tree oils as a pigment vehicle (suspension agent) dates way back. Noteably to Leonardo, and his Walnut. (Ground from the tree nut - not tree sap)

Only fee in my posts is the sometimes required "grain of salt", Stylesider
  #19  
Old 02-25-2003, 09:23 PM
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thanks for the tips
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  #20  
Old 03-02-2003, 12:03 PM
BIG 77 BIG 77 is offline
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Step By Step Paintwork

When using a catalyst primer, and the methods you described, how many coats of primer, paint, and clear do you usually use? Starting from bare metal?

Thanks
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  #21  
Old 03-06-2003, 09:26 AM
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Step By Step Paintwork

There really is no set answer the the Number of coats you will use for primer and paint. Generally Three coats of primer (with etching under neath over baremetal) and enough dry coats of base color to evenly cover the panels being painted. You want them all the same color, evenly coated. If you are using a Single Stage paint, you will spray a little heavier coats.


Hope this helps.
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  #22  
Old 05-21-2003, 08:38 PM
FordCwazyGuy FordCwazyGuy is offline
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i have a simple question,im painting my 86 broncoII,stripped roof & hood to bare metal because there was some surface rust,used an etch primer,sanded sides real good but not to bare metal because paint was still not 1/2 bad,then sprayed an epoxy sealer/primer on all of it,an emergency came up,had to drive it another state for 2 weeks cause of a family member funeral,my question is,can i just sand the sealer/primer i already put on it lightly,then add a sanding primer on top of it?,i found some imperfections i didnt get,need to sand them out smooth,then spray the acrylic enamel on top ok?,is the sanding primer ok over top of the epoxy primer?.then spray the final?
  #23  
Old 05-22-2003, 10:51 PM
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Step By Step Paintwork

Sand the epoxy primer then put on the high build (sandable) primer. When you've fixed all the imperfections, put another coat of epoxy on, then you can put on the color.
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  #24  
Old 05-24-2003, 02:20 AM
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Re: Metallics

I saw some discussion on metallics. My first paint job was a metallic. Noone told me it took extra skill. I'm glad I bought extra paint. Here are some things I learned about metallics.

1) Single stage (SS) metallic paint jobs can not be colorsanded. The problem is, the actual clearcoat in SS is very thin. If you sand to remove orange peel, nibs (dust, bugs, etc.), you will cut through the clearcoat, into the actual color. The lay of the metallic is changed and you will have one mottled mess. A repaint will be required.

2) Mottling (uneven color), tiger strips, etc. occur when the metallics don't lay uniformly. This can be caused by any number of errors. 4starcstms suggestion of putting on a final mist coat works pretty good. I've even managed to do blends using that technique.

3) When painting flats surfaces (hoods & tops) it's real easy to lay on too much paint because noone worries about the paint running. Too much paint produces mottling because, yes you guessed it, the metallics don't lay uniformly.

4) While waiting for my flashtime, I empty my gun and pour in little reducer so the gun doesn't dry out. If you don't empty your gun, you could end up with a wad of metallic the first time you pull the trigger.
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  #25  
Old 05-24-2003, 02:56 AM
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Re: Isocyanates

If you are spraying 2K primer, basecoat/clearcoat, single stage, or any other product using a hardener, most likely you are exposing yourself to isocyanates. By the way, epoxy (a 2-part paint) is not an ioscyanate paint.

Big deal you may say. I've been breathing solvents for the last 20 years and I don't have cancer. Well bro (or sis as the case may be), isocyanates are a whole different can of worms. Remember when Union Carbide killed off hundreds of people in India a few years ago, during a chemical leak? That was an isocyanate compound.

Isocyanates can have a life-changing affect after one-time exposure. There is no way to predict who will be affected.

The main hazard is during the spraying process when the stuff is floating in the air. After the mist has cleared, it's not quite as bad although some will outgas during the drying process.

Carbon respirators are not the proper equipment to be using. Fresh air respirators are required in commercial shops. Myself, I use a fresh air respirator and a hood (since isocyanates are attracted to the moisture in your eyes).

Read up on the subject. Consult your MSDS data for the product you are using. Don't ignore the hazards.

Here is a link on the chemical: Isocyanate Hazards
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  #26  
Old 06-06-2003, 04:36 PM
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Re: Picking your paint type

I will only address two types of paints here. They are acrylic enamel and urethane. Other types are available but these are the two that get the majority of the fanfare.

Acrylic enamel (AE)
This is the older of the two. It has the lowest cost. It can be sprayed without a hardener (which eliminates the isocyanate hazard). You can get a good paint job with this stuff but on the downside, you can expect a shorter lifescan. Myself, I only use it for things like firewalls, frames, trailers, & etc. Dupont Centari and PPG Delstar are two examples of AE.

Urethane
This is the only paint I will use on my car and trucks. This paint is what you find on the modern vehicles. Tough and long lasting. Urethane does require a hardner (which exposes you to isocyanates). Very UV resistant. Dupont ChromaPremier and PPG Omni are two examples.

When buying
When shopping for a paint, don't confuse the 'type' and what I call the 'line' of paint. Most paint companies make AE and urethane paint. Within these types of paint, they also make different lines (another word could be 'value'). Take PPG for example. PPG Delta and Omni are both urethane paints. One is more expensive than the other. One of your options (to save money) might be to go with one of the lower valued lines. This would allow you to go with urethane and but cut down on your costs.

Should you mix products
The standard answer is no. Mixing brands (i.e. Dupont primer, PPG basecoat, & 5-Star clearcoat) can lead to real problems and noone will guarantee their product if you mix products. That's the standard answer. Do I mix products? Yes I do but...

...you shouldn't .
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  #27  
Old 06-08-2003, 01:40 AM
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What grit of sandpaper do I use on....

These are the values I use on a complete job. By a complete job, I mean from the bodywork stage, to the wetsanding (AKA colorsanding) of the finished paint job. Others may use a diferrent combination and get the same good results.

1) Filler (AKA Bondo) - 32 & 80 grit
I rough cut the filler with 32 grit and do the finish sanding with 80 grit.

2) Polyester filler - 100 & 220 grit
I use polyester filler to do a skim coat over the filler. I use the 100 to break the glaze and finish up with 220.

3) 2K primer - 220, 400, & 600 grit
I depend on 2K primer to fill the scratch marks in the polyester filler. It is also used to flatten out the minor high and low spots. It's not unusual for me to spray on 3 coats of 2K, sand most of it off with 220, and redo this step 1 or 2 more times. I finish out with 400 grit for solid paints and 600 for metallics.

4) Colorsanding - 600, 1200, 1500, & 2000 grit
I use 600 grit to take care of runs. 1200 is my standard first cut. Then 1500. Some quit at 1500 but I like to finish with 2000. It just means less buffing.

A couple of other jobs come to mind. For example, I spray epoxy primer on the bare steel, before I do my filler work. I use 80 to scratch the epoxy primer. I also strip old paint with 32 grit and finish the job with 100.

Just remember the primary rule. Paint doesn't hide faults. It points them out. Take your time and....

sand, sand sand, and sand some more.
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  #28  
Old 06-08-2003, 10:57 AM
FordCwazyGuy FordCwazyGuy is offline
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You mentioned about mettalics,said the about the clearcoat,sanding to far then getting into the color,that would stand same for a solid color too wouldnt it?.you wouldnt wanna sand the clear smooth so far to get into the color itself,would kind of defeat the purpose wouldnt it?
I jjust finshed my first paint job ive ever done by myself,i buddy of mine always did the body n paint & i'd do the mechanicals on classic muscle cars we'd buy to restore & sell.
I sprayed a Medium Metallic Grey on it,when i found any imperfections,i took care of it & made the paint smooth,then lightly sanded all of it,then sprayed a very light coat over all of it,just enuff to make it wet with a HVLP & shaked the gun once in a while,came out real nice
  #29  
Old 06-08-2003, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
You mentioned about mettalics,said the about the clearcoat,sanding to far then getting into the color,that would stand same for a solid color too wouldnt it?.you wouldnt wanna sand the clear smooth so far to get into the color itself,would kind of defeat the purpose wouldnt it?
With a single stage (SS), the paint color is mixed in with the clear. This is the same for both acrylic enamel (AE) and urethane (although AE doesn't really have a 'clear'). You can colorsand and buff both of these as long as they are not a metallic. The only problem you might run into is when the paint becomes to thin and the primer coat begins to show through.

With a basecoat/clearcoat (BC/CC) paint job, the color (BC) is sprayed on and then the clear (CC) is sprayed over the top of it. The BC is real thin and the CC is fairly thick. You can sand the CC without disturbing the BC. If you happen to sand too far and get down to the BC, then you have to make a fix. My usual procedure is to spray a coat of CC over the sand-thru (to protect the area from solvent lifting), lighty sand, blend the the BC into the area, and then CC the entire panel. It is possible to do a blend with the CC but it can be a difficult procedure to make it look right.
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Old 06-10-2003, 06:35 PM
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Re: Yeek !!! I have a run

I don't care who you are. We have all done it. Everyone has the skill to make a run. The question is, what can be done about it. The solution depends on the paint process and paint type. Try these on for size.

An important fact to remember
Runs have a pulling affect on the paint. While it may appear the run is just a big glob, in fact, the paint is thick at the bottom of the run but thin at the top of the run. This means that in a large percentage of the cases, at the top of the run, the paint surface is indented into the main paint surface, make a hollow area. Be careful while working the top of the run.

Basecoat/Clearcoat (BC/CC)
These are the easiest to fix since in 99.99% of the cases, the run is actually in the CC, not the BC. CC runs are easy to fix.

Get out a single-edge razor blade and scrap the majority of the run off until it is even with the main CC surface. The word is scrap, not slice or shave. They also make a special tool (Nib File - Approx. $16) to do this. Just make sure you don't cut too deep. Just deep enough to reach the main CC.

Now wetsand with 600 grit until the run is gone. Finish up with 1200, then 1500 and a final buffing.

If you're not sure of yourself and are worried about damaging the paint, a run can be sanded off with 1200 or even 1500. It's just going to take a while.

The whole secret to this process is making sure you don't break through the CC, into the BC. If you do, you will need to repaint.

This procedure works for solid and metallic paints.

By the way, if the run is actually in the BC and not the CC, you will need to repaint.

Single stage acrylic enamel without hardener
Yes, the run is fixable but it will take time since the paint will stay soft for a long time since there was no hardener.

Let your car bake in the sun for at least a month. The idea is to allow the paint time to harden and for the solvents to outgas. After about a month, sand the run until it is flat with the main paint surface. Now let the car bake in the sun for another 2 weeks. The second drying time is necessary because the sanding has exposed soft paint and it must be allowed to dry.

Now sand with 1200, then 1500, and give it a final buffing.

This procedure will not work with a metallic paint.

Single stage enamel and urethane with hardener
Use the same sanding procedure as explained in the two previous examples. You do not have the required month drying period because of the hardener.

This procedure will not work with a metallic paint.

When will I have to repaint because of a run?
1) If you have a single stage metallic
2) If you sand into the BC of a BC/CC
3) If the run was bad enough to pull BC into the CC
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Old 06-10-2003, 06:35 PM
 
 
 
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