Hi,

I have a 2004 F250 with 6.0. For some months now have had a steadily degrading power and cold/warm weather very poor running issue. Currently no matter what the ambient is the truck runs really badly at first, when fully warmed up it runs much smoother but lacks considerably in acceleration.

This is how it runs now - with first start of day just standing still sounds a bit rough but settles down with in minute or so. Will fast idle when weather is cold. Put foot on the accelerator won't go above about 1500-1800 rpm for a while. Once temp gauge comes up it will then rev higher but sounds uneven. On driving straight from start up lousy acceleration. Stutters (no lurching) if anything but lightest use of pedal.If you put your foot down it just will limit at about 1800 rpm and not change gear. Use light throttle is will slowly accelerate and move through the gears. Once warmed up its much smoother but probably not what it should be, still lacks the guts it should have, but is quite drivable, tows the trailer and will get up to highway speeds no problem.Not too strong on hills with a load though.

I have read many of the discussions in the forums and performed a number of checks and tests.

1. asked dealer to check s/w - stated to be up to date at 1 yr ago
2. EGR valve - cleaned, did not appear as if it was stuck open
3. Turbo - disassembled, cleaned. Was rusty but i don't think it was sticking
4. checked wiring harnesses, especially FICM - injector for damage/chafing, none found
5. intercooler/CAC leak test, held 20 psi for 10s of mins
6. Checked FICM power supplies (early 7 screw version), good steady ~48V.
6. Balloon test for injector leaking back to rail, no sign of air in small water balloons.
7. checked for codes (I have digimoto interface/software) - never seen a code or had a CEL.

I have had this truck for a couple of years, inside 1st year of ownership the EGR cooler blew and had to replace EGR and Oil cooler for a pretty penny!. I can't say what else had been done in its history.

So, I am getting close to taking to dealer, want to see any last ditch effort you all might have to suggest i try. Could this be just injectors? If the truck could run so badly wouldn't at least some trouble code be expected?

Mark B

 

You have done quite a bit of good troubleshooting already. Way more than most - so good job on that.

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 617pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=822 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 617pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 30061" width=822><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 617pt; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl26 height=17 width=822 x:str='Here is a quick list I put together on the things that can affect power (in relative order of "cheap and easy to resolve" to "most expensive"): '>Here is a quick list I put together on the things that can affect power (in relative order of "cheap and easy to resolve" to "most expensive"): </TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=17></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Boost leak (CAC tube): check for leaks.">- Boost leak (CAC tube): check for leaks.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Clogged air filter: check filter minder or just replace the filter.">- Clogged air filter: check filter minder or just replace the filter.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl28 height=17 x:str="'- Plugged fuel filters: replace filters w/ OEM filters.">- Plugged fuel filters: replace filters w/ OEM filters.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Aerated oil (wrong/worn-out oil OR too much oil): change oil properly.">- Aerated oil (wrong/worn-out oil OR too much oil): change oil properly.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Wire chaffing: check problem areas.">- Wire chaffing: check problem areas.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 617pt; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl24 height=17 width=822>http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17301&d=1208412696</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 617pt; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl24 height=17 width=822>http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17301&d=1208412697</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 617pt; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl24 height=17 width=822>http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17301&d=1208412698</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Bad fuel.">- Bad fuel.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Clogged fuel lines: Check system (run pressure check if you can).">- Clogged fuel lines: Check system (run pressure check if you can).</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Air in fuel: check filter caps and lines for leaks.">- Air in fuel: check filter caps and lines for leaks.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Bad EGR valve or clogged EGR valve: clean EGR valve.">- Bad EGR valve or clogged EGR valve: clean EGR valve.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Clogged EBP, MAP sensor tubes: clean tube / hose. Check to see if the MAP hose has become disconnected.">- Clogged EBP, MAP sensor tubes: clean tube / hose. Check to see if the MAP hose has become disconnected.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Stuck turbo vanes: clean turbo or replace center section.">- Stuck turbo vanes: clean turbo or replace center section.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Injector stiction: get latest flash or maybe use HotShots.">- Injector stiction: get latest flash or maybe use HotShots.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl25 height=17 x:str="'- Having your truck flashed when you did not return your tuner to stock.">- Having your truck flashed when you did not return your tuner to stock.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Improperly completed flash.">- Improperly completed flash.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Bad MAF sensor: replace sensor.">- Bad MAF sensor: replace sensor.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Bad ICP sensor or harness (usually will have rough or no-start w/ this).">- Bad ICP sensor or harness (usually will have rough or no-start w/ this).</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Bad IPR valve (or restricted IPR valve due to solids on the inlet screen).">- Bad IPR valve (or restricted IPR valve due to solids on the inlet screen).</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Bad VGT actuator. Replace actuator.">- Bad VGT actuator. Replace actuator.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl25 height=17 x:str="'- Bad fuel pump (HFCM).">- Bad fuel pump (HFCM).</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl25 height=17>(you MUST have a minimum fuel pressure of 45 psig at all times or you risk expensive injector damage).</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Leaking EGR cooler. Replace or eliminate the EGR cooler.">- Leaking EGR cooler. Replace or eliminate the EGR cooler.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Bad injectors. Identify and replace leaking injector(s).">- Bad injectors. Identify and replace leaking injector(s).</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" class=xl27 height=17 x:str="'- Bad FICM, usually there are quite a few codes w/ a bad Fuel Injection Control Module.">- Bad FICM, usually there are quite a few codes w/ a bad Fuel Injection Control Module.</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8" height=17 x:str="'- Bad HPOP. Usually a &quot;no-start&quot; condition will be experienced with a bad high pressure oil pump. It is a fairly big/expensive job to replace this pump.">- Bad HPOP. Usually a "no-start" condition will be experienced with a bad high pressure oil pump. It is a fairly big/expensive job to replace this pump.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Edit -
I have been told conflicting stories on the "improperly completed flash". Some say it is impossible to complete the flash improperly, but I am skeptical.

 

It is possible to improperly flash properly.

A) lose power / power glitch in midst of a flash

B) software crash in midst of a flash

While most flash writing programs and flashed hardware are somewhat robust (in that it where possible, it doesn't erase your old flash until the new one is flashed / validated, that is not the case on all hardware.

Visualize a flash where the new one is written, but in the midst of the "switchover", the flash program / device crashes.

That safety feature was only built into later generations / higher priced hardware where there was sufficient resources allocated for redundancy.

In the earliest use of "flash" or "ROMs", it is a one shot deal with no redundancy.

However, today, ROM is so cheap that most devices can afford to build in some redundancy (extra memory), so it is not as if your ROM is being cleared before a new program is written in many cases.

But the flash chip typically are not removable from the device in auto applications.

Almost all automobile applications (not counting radio) use non-removable non-volatile memory.

That is, something like Flash that is soldered onto the board, or in some cases, directly integrated into other devices (e.g. a MPU).

In these cases, a failed flash can (and will) often mean the box do not even have its "BIOS" needed to wake up and discover it is got corrupted memory.


To answer your question - generally there is no such thing as "not completed flash" that will NOT result in the box being dead.

A badly failed flash (without a BIOS somewhere in non-volatile ROM that the flash did not touch) will mean a box that is replaced.

The factory can probably reflash it.. but not the field service tech.


e.g. dead USB flash drives can often be "rehabilitated" for those who have low level format / repair tools...

 

Mark,

Thanks for the checklist, that's very helpful.

I started down the list and today had a look at map sensor tube (believe rubber pipe from passenger valve cover to sensor mounted on bracket attached to cabin air blower/box thing. Not bad but starting to harden up - reattached with some RTV for now, will replace.

EPB sensor (metal pipe from front of drivers exhaust header to braket on oil filter housing?) - removed sensor, disconnected upper union on pipe and checked the adapter on bracket to clog. Other end rusted to header, did not attempt to remove yet. Can this part of the pipe clog?

While do this I noticed black sooty patch on firewall at back of drivers side header. On closer inspection the union to the pipe going straight up was loose, both bolts. Managed to get the lower one tightened up but other one is hard to hold bolt head and is still turning. Like to know if anyone has a trick to getting in this tight spot to tighten up.

Would like to know thoughts on a leak in exhaust here and how might relate to my power issues??

Thanks for you help...

 

being an 04 you dont say what 04 engine it is... early or late. if its an early build icp will be behind the turbo, this is a knowen concern for this problem check the icp for an oil leak. if possible check icpv should be about .19v-.24v koeo and about .82v running at idle.
the ebp tub can plug at either end. a pice of wire down the tube s a good way to test it.

to get to the y pipe bolts a short wrench and long extension works well the extension goes between the fender liner and the frame.

 

Thanks Cheezit, :-)

Early build - So can I get to the ICP with turbo in place? Is that two wire connector seen from drivers side behind turbo, i can just about reach to to touch the connector??

what is koeo in "about .19v-.24v koeo"?

I'll pull the top of the EBP tube again and poke with wire - thanks.

For exhaust, i can get a socket on nut underneath easily enough, but now i look a see what you mean between finder liner and frame. Hardest part is the bolt head. So, you mean a stubby wrench? Coming from top in engine bay or reaching up from underneath?

Thanks again for your help ...

 

icp sensor is the 3 wire sensor behind the 2 wire sensor. it can be gotten from the bottom by removing the heat sheild. other have gooten it from the top but its not that easy that way.
koeo = key on engine off. the .19v is the aprox pid reading you should see looking at icpv with a scan tool.

yes a stubby (short wrench) from the bottom. reach up and set the wrench on the nut/bolt.

 

On my 7.3, I cleaned the EBP tube with a piece of weedeater line attached to a battery drill. Worked like a roto-rooter, very well. I also found on my 7.3 that the tube had a small hole in it, which gave me low readings. It was just a tiny hole that I was able to braze shut. Just my .02