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Old 05-10-2010, 10:24 PM
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Thumbs up IDI Dyno results with Moose IP and Injectors: 204.75HP and 461.59lb/ft torque @ RW!!!

wow guys!
this is personally the highest dyno run #'s iv seen posted for the IDI diesel!!!

brand new post fresh from OBN and i quote:


Quote:
Originally Posted by hesutton View Post
I waited for over 6 hours in line to get my turn on the rollers Saturday at the TS Outlaw Event. I was the ONLY IDI in a sea of Dodge Cummins, GM D-max, and a sprinkle of PSD's. I was also the only IDI on the rollers the entire weekend. I couldn't sit in the truck with the dyno operator as only owners who where toggling Nitrous on and off were allowed in the cab. So, I don't know max EGT's or boost on the dyno, but I know the boost was 15+.

Well...... the results are what I was expecting after driving the truck with the complete Moose fuel system.

Moose IP and Injectors: 204.75HP and 461.59lb/ft torque.:hail
Boost pegged at 15+ as I can do that on the street. EGT's?

DPS IP and Moose Injectors: 178.7HP and 387.9lb/ft.
Boost pegged at 15+ and EGT of 850.

DPS IP and DPS Injectors: 185.1HP and 404.0
Boost max of 13psi and EGT at 900.

Three trucks met their doom on saturday. One Dodge Cummins making 550HP (spectacular head gasket failure), two D-max trucks (less spectacular head gasket failures with just coolant bleeding) in the 600-700 HP range, the higher HP of the two D-max being a drag truck running nitrous.

The highest HP winner of the day was believe it or not...... an '05 F250 making 1090+HP with nitrous.

A big congrats to Mel Agne for the performance of his Moose products. Thanks again Mel.

I got lots of questions about the IDI, even from the dyno operators who really were surprised by the performance and especially the torque of a 24 year old truck.

Disclamer: The dyno was a trailer unit, not the same dyno used to get the other numbers. It was a DynoJet unit and it was cooler and less humid than it was last summer at the Rally when we dyno'ed at TS Performance. The numbers are what they are, but it is a bit hard to compair them as 100% accurate as they where not done under the same conditions on the same dyno.

Heath
Quote:
Originally Posted by hesutton View Post
Mel, that was something I wanted to mention in my original post. The DPS IP was dead on 9.5 degrees BTDC. The Moose is in the ballpark of Ford's timing rec's, but I know it is retarded compaired to the DPS unit as it is not nearly as noisey at idle or when on the throttle. I'll let Mel help me get it back to 9.5 BTDC again in July.


Heath

thought id share with ya guys,so no one here at FTE misses it.
enjoy!
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:36 PM
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Cool! Thanks for sharing.
Do you know if the boost gauge only goes to 15?
Stock motor with just the Moose fuel system added, or modified internals?
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:42 PM
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this is his signature:

1986 F250HD 4x4 7.3L IDI with '95 PSD front clip, '97 bed, 4-speed T19, and 3.55's. Dana 60/Ford 10.25 (Detroit TrueTrac Locker). Rebuilt from the frame up. Banks Sidewinder Turbo. Moose Pump and Injectors. 12 Inch Kevlar/Metalic South Bend Clutch. On-Board York Air Compressor. Isspro Turbo Temp Monitor, Banks Monster Exhaust, Boost Gauge and Pyrometer. Autometer Voltmeter. Autometer Oil, Fuel, and Air Pressure Gauges. Precharged Coolant Filter, Holley Red Pump. 16.5 x 37 x 12.5 Goodyear Wrangler's. Six Inch Lift (4 Skyjacker, 2 Body). Air Horns. Rhino Liner. "Woody Style" Filler Neck Mods, Fresh paint job. Added A/C. Push Button GP/Automatic GP on toggle. Interior redone.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:19 PM
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John Boggs
Pretty nice numbers there. Who needs a new truck when you can just moose your IDI for alot less lol.
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1993 F-250HD 7.3L IDI E4OD 370,000 miles. Straight pipe exhaust. IP turned up 1.5 flats with a Diesel Recon pyro. 0-60 in 11 seconds.
Well my rig's a little old,but that don't mean she's slow. There's a flame from her stack, And the smoke's rolling black as coal!
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:32 PM
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lol,well those numbers are a far cry from a "new" truck w/ diesel.
but yeah,frigging great to finally see 200 HP verified @ the rear wheels.
this is very,very impressive....at least to us classic IDI owners.
his huge torque increase has me a bit baffled.....and must admit,a bit skeptical.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:37 PM
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Seems to me like the moose IP and DPS injectors would be the way to go. Still though, i am a little dissapointed with the HP numbers for a turbo'd engine, especially as theyre rated at 180 stock NA
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:41 PM
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mel added/updated the dyno section of the FAQ at OBN.here are some more cool facts included,and i directly quote:



Q. What kind of horsepower can I expect from an IDI 6.9 or 7.3 diesel?

Current IDI Horesepower and Torque Bests... 205.35HP / 461.59Torque

A. Contributed by Heath Sutton...

Editors note... These results are rear wheel SAE horsepower numbers achieved on a SuperFlow dynometer unit during the 2009 IDI Weekend in Bowling Green, Kentucky, and represent a large cross section of truck models and styles. Some Powerstroke engines are listed for comparison. Most were modified.

Name - Horsepower - Torque in ft/lbs

Non turbo results

John Herbert 143.9 261.3
Marnin Gehman 137.4 257.1
Heath Sutton 123.2 218.7
Matthias Agne 108.8 229.1

Average Horsepower of a normally aspirated stock IDI.... 128.3
Average Torque of a normally aspirated stock IDI... 241.55

Turbo results

Heath Sutton- DPS inj 185.1 404.0
Heath Sutton MM's 178.7 387.9
Joe Perry 172.5 313.6
Suzi Agne 151.9 284.2
Steve Reitner 150.0 300.3
Chris Barber 148.7 278.8
Jared Whitmer 136.0 304.1

Average Horsepower of a turbocharged lightly modded IDI...165.55
Average torque of a turbocharged lightly modded IDI...324.7

Powerstrokes

Gary Russell 302.8 557.2
Aric Hornsby 301.9 543.7
Bonnie Young 181.8 373.3

Average horsepower and torque for a Powerstroke...262HP/491.4

Additional turbo equipped dyno numbers that were achieved individually...

A comparison of Propane versus no Propane fumigation courtesy of Darrin Tosh
First pull, no LPG - HP 183.15 Torque 325.45

2nd and 3rd pull with LPG - HP 205.35 Torque 362.64, HP 205.51 Torque 361.55
Bests average turbo IDI by 39.8 HP and 37.94 Torque

So a 22.96 increase in HP and a 37.19 increase in Torque when using propane.

Results of a truck equipped with Moose Mister injectors. No intercooler, #2 only, courtesy of Heath Sutton
With a Moose Pump - 204.75HP and 461.59lb/ft torque
With a DPS Pump - 178.7HP and 387.9lb/ft

So a 26.05 increase in HP and a 73.69 increase in torque using a Moose Pump.
Bests average turbo IDI by 39.2 HP and 136.89 torque
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairyboxnoogle View Post
Seems to me like the moose IP and DPS injectors would be the way to go. Still though, i am a little dissapointed with the HP numbers for a turbo'd engine, especially as theyre rated at 180 stock NA
your confusing power @ the crank (fords stock power numbers) vs power @ the rear wheels (today's dyno runs where the truck is measured by spinning rollers,rather than pulling and setting the engine itself on a dyno),that's all.
stock @ the crank is:
Peak Horsepower: 185 HP @ 3,000 RPM (190 w/ turbo)
Peak Torque: 360 lb-ft. @ 1,400 RPM (388 w/ turbo)

keep in mind,the stock turbo down pipe was basically "crushed" and badly at that.(ford thought it best to crush the down pipe,rather than alter a seem in the cab.)
anyone still running a stock turbo outlet housing w/this poor down pipe is missing out.
it's worse off than that stock Y pipe on the exhaust,and that's pitiful.
why some people think OEM is always best is beyond me lol.the manufacturer cuts corners to save $.not boost economy/power.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:44 PM
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Ok, thats quite a difference then, i have been told by several people including a Ford dealer tech, that ALL diesels used in ford pickups have always been advertised by the rear wheel horsepower. Seemingly, that is mistaken. Still cant believe that the drivetrain is eating 60 HP or seemingly 30% of the engine gross output... I wonder how many of those are auto trannys. And by looking at the PSD numbers, i would assume the first two are 6.0s and the 3rd a 7.3psd?
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:13 PM
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As far as i know only thing done to heaths engine is its rebuilt, moosed and turboed, now you said earlier the moose pump and dps injectors would be the way to go, wrong actually, i have some dps injectors and the really suck! they wont idle worth crap the suck fuel like crazy and smoke like mad, If you ever seen a DPS injectors pop tested you would be sick all the do is **** a stream of fuel

The moose injectors atomixe fuel beautifully and shoot an amazing amount of fuel out, the reason his power went down is the boost was so high after the moose injectors that it was super heating the air, he needs a differnt turbo thats more in its effieceint range, and even an intercooler so that it will cooler that air charge, then i bet we would really see some nice numbers, oh and his boost gauge is only a 15 PSI gauge just imagine what hes making for boost
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:50 PM
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id love to get a moose pump and injectors. i figure i could use a refresh anyways. on my way with the propane now and already with the intercooler... just gotta finish a few mods. we got a dyno about 40 minutes from here. thinkin about throwin on my 35's and takin a run at it.
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Old 05-15-2010, 08:43 PM
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Dyno graphs: Moose pump & Moose injectors.

Dyno graphs: Moose pump & Moose injectors.

Quote:
Dyno graphs: Moose pump & Moose injectors.
I got a chance to scan in the dyno graphs from all the dyno runs made with various fuel pumps/injectors.

Here ya go.............Enjoy!
MOOSE PUMP AND MOOSE INJECTORS:


DPS PUMP AND MOOSE INJECTORS:


DPS PUMP AND DPS INJECTORS:



Well, there they are. Sorry I didn't get a chance to post them earlier.

Heath
pics are in order as follows;
MOOSE PUMP AND MOOSE INJECTORS:
DPS PUMP AND MOOSE INJECTORS:
DPS PUMP AND DPS INJECTORS:
Attached Images
   
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Old 05-15-2010, 08:57 PM
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click:

moose pump info(from typefour)
Mel gave me this to paste this over here and rupejosh wanted this info also, so here it is.
Contact info at the bottom


not installed in the engine above.but another nice mod we hopefully see dyno results from someday too:
camshaft for the IDI: "The torque cam"
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Old 05-17-2010, 03:15 AM
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Thanks for putting up all the info! I just noticed that when he went from DPS IP/injectors to DPS IP/ moose injectors, that he lost power, also, the dps injectors were making more power with less boost. I am still learning so dont be to hard on me lol. I reeeaaally want the cam.

As far as the pumps go, is he running the Moose Pump or the Super Moose? More fuel is typically more power, but do they change the timing curve at all? From what i understand the timing is one of the major shortcomings of the IDI. I must admit im a touch over my head here but i wonder how bad the Super Moose would kill drivability and reliability. I can live with it breaking down some, but if its torn down more than i get to drive it i start to get annoyed. My goal is 250-300hp at the wheels, and hopefully still able to drive the thing and get fair fuel mileage. Right now with the rig stock i get close to 20 on the hwy and 13 or so in town, my 400 avg. at around 8. The truck will tow, once in a while nothing major, and i would like to do some casual truck pulling, but for the most part just want kinda a hot rod truck. I apparently didnt know as much as i thought (usually the case) because im continuing to find out more about these as far as aftermarket (or lack thereof) and what people are doing to get these built. This much i can say. If 205hp at the rear wheels is the standing record for the IDI, i will be a pioneer and record holder... eventually. As far as the pump and injectors go is there a webpage somewhere? Im wondering about the injectors and would like to find some more reading on em if i can, and prices.
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Old 05-20-2010, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairyboxnoogle View Post
Thanks for putting up all the info! I just noticed that when he went from DPS IP/injectors to DPS IP/ moose injectors, that he lost power, also, the dps injectors were making more power with less boost. I am still learning so dont be to hard on me lol. I reeeaaally want the cam.

As far as the pumps go, is he running the Moose Pump or the Super Moose? More fuel is typically more power, but do they change the timing curve at all? From what i understand the timing is one of the major shortcomings of the IDI. I must admit im a touch over my head here but i wonder how bad the Super Moose would kill drivability and reliability. I can live with it breaking down some, but if its torn down more than i get to drive it i start to get annoyed. My goal is 250-300hp at the wheels, and hopefully still able to drive the thing and get fair fuel mileage. Right now with the rig stock i get close to 20 on the hwy and 13 or so in town, my 400 avg. at around 8. The truck will tow, once in a while nothing major, and i would like to do some casual truck pulling, but for the most part just want kinda a hot rod truck. I apparently didnt know as much as i thought (usually the case) because im continuing to find out more about these as far as aftermarket (or lack thereof) and what people are doing to get these built. This much i can say. If 205hp at the rear wheels is the standing record for the IDI, i will be a pioneer and record holder... eventually. As far as the pump and injectors go is there a webpage somewhere? Im wondering about the injectors and would like to find some more reading on em if i can, and prices.

If you ever watched the dps injectors be pop tested then watched the moose misters be pop tested then see some stock injectors pop tested you will be purely set on the moose injectors,

DPS injectors- just **** fuel at around 1200psi but they dont atomize the fuel at all they just pee

Stock injectors- atomize fuel pretty decent with a decent fuel flow

Moose misters- flow a massive amount of fuel and it atomizes fuel like no other injector, and pops off at 22-2400 cant remember which it is

I recenty had a set of BB injectors set to my own personal pop pressure, i had them set to pop at 2300psi, and the make for an awesome sounding and great running engine and plenty of power
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Working on building a new engine to replace the tired old 6.9
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