Parents bought a 1972 Ford F700 single axle dump truck. Decent condition. Does need some work though. Where can I find info about deciphering the VIN or body tags? Also where to get information on engine codes? I was told it was a 460ci motor but I have worked on Chevrolets mostly and have no idea what size it is. I have pretty much been out of working on older vehicles for awhile so this is a nice project to get back into it. It runs but needs a tuneup bad.

I was told the brakes are not hydraulic but not really air brakes either. I have no idea. Never worked on a big truck before. Anyone know what they might be talking about? Just needed pointed in the right direction. I appreciate any help I can get. I'll try to get some pics up later.

Much appreciated for helping me get this project started and roadworthy again.

 

Well the 460 was never used in trucks, and especially not in 1972. It would have originally had a 330/361/391 engine (or even possibly a 300 six). If it's a 460 it's a transplant. 370s and 429s, which are related to the 460, were used later in the 70s.
Maybe some one swapped in a later drive train.

The brakes are probably air OVER hydraulic. The brakes themselves are hydraulic, but the booster is a compressed air system.

 

Thx for the quick reply. Where could I find the casting numbers for the block and heads to figure out what it actually is?

 

First you should figure out if it's an "FT" (330/361/391) or a "385 series" (370, 429, 460).
If it's an FT, it will 5 valve cover bolts, and the mating surfaces of the intake manifold and the cylinder heads will be under the valve cover - in other words, the valve covers reach over onto the manifold.

If it turns out to be an FT, it may be the original engine and you can go by the 4th digit of your vin. C=330MD,D=330HD, E=361, F=391.

If it's a "385" I have no idea how to ID them.

 

I went over and looked and took some pictures this afternoon. I found a tag in the cab located behind the passenger side and it looked like the engine was/is a 330. I didn't see your post adharvey2 until I got back but from the pics it looks like it has the 5 valve cover bolts.

As for the brakes, when I looked again it just seems to me it is a hydraulic system with the booster located under the drivers side instead of the booster being in conjunction with the reservoir on the firewall as I am used to seeing it. I didn't take any pics of it. Here's the pics I took and I will check back here in a few days.

 

The booster under the truck is a "hydrovac" brake booster. It is basically a larger power brake booster that uses vacuum to power assist the brakes.

These are found on all makes of medium trucks.

Post 11 here gives a good rundown:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-24000gvw.html

"Air over hydraulic" is another system, and seems to cover a couple of combinations of air boost and hydraulic actuation. My dad had some '52-'53 GMC military trucks with air boosted hydraulics, and later military trucks also had them.

air over hydraulic brakes need explanation - Steel Soldiers::Military Vehicles Supersite

Google Image Result for http://www.tpub.com/content/engine/14081/img/14081_90_3.jpg

Be glad you don't have that system, as it is considered air brakes and requires a CDL. An F700 could be GVWR over 26000 anyway, but the air brakes would clinch the deal:

Interpretation for Part 383.95 Air brake restrictions. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

 

That motor is DEFINITELY an FE or an FT based on the exhaust port location, and spark plugs.

However, here comes the weirdness.

Aftermarket Holley 4bbl - "LIST 1851-4" - never was a 4bbl on a 330.

The intake clearly shows a "C5AE" casting number. The "AE" means automotive.

So, that's not an FT intake, it would be "TE" or maybe even "JE". It's an FE intake.

So, what's in there? Could be a 330 with a swapped on 4bbl intake (unlikely), or a 361/391 with a swapped intake (unlikely). I'm betting either a 390 with a factory 4bbl intake on it, or a 360 with a 4bbl intake swapped onto it.

Did you notice it has two dipsticks? One long one on the passenger side, and one on the driver's side behind the power steering pump?

Most certainly, the engine has been swapped.

Get all the casting numbers you can, especially the head casting numbers which are near the center spark plugs.

 

The engine has 1965/78 FT valve covers on it, the FE valve covers are a different shape. All have 5 valve cover bolt holes per side.

1964 FT & 1958/64 FE valve covers are rounded, have no holes in them for oil caps/smog valve. These engines have an oil fill tube.

The C5AE intake manifold is from a 1965 390 as installed in Galaxie/LTD's/full sized Merc's and T-Bird's, these came with Auto-Lite 4V's, not Holley's.

1966/67 FE 4V intake manifold has a different (C6AE) ID number. The Holley carb appears to be from a truck (292 4V & 391 4V used similar carbs).

The 4th digit of the VIN is the engine code.

1966/72 FT engines: C = 330 2V M/D / D = 330 2V H/D / E = 361 2V / F = 391 4V.

1964/65's use different VIN engine codes.

This could be the original 330 M/D FT engine that someone installed the FE 4V intake manifold on.

Casting numbers off blocks/heads are WORTHLESS for ID'ing what size the engine is. Won't tell you much of anything inre to what years the parts are from.

I've typed the following a gazillion times here on FTE: Casting numbers cannot be cross referenced to Ford part numbers.

The harmonic balancer has an ID engineering number stamped on it. Post what it is. The balancer will be specific to either FE or FT engines.

The 330 M/D uses a different harmonic balancer than the 330 H/D; 361; 391.

 

But they WILL tell you whether or not it's an FT or an FE very quickly, and are easier to find than the harmonic balancer numbers.

 

Do you know what the casting numbers are for FT engines/heads? How about FE engines/heads?

How many members of FTE have any of this info?

The harmonic balancer ID number will point to what engine (FE or FT), and what years it was used. If a 330 M/D, the number will reflect that.

 

I know what FT castings numbers are NOT - they are not the typical FE casting numbers, if they are 361/391FT, because of the different casting for the exhaust crossover

The more I think about this, the more it looks to be a 330 with a 4bbl intake slapped on it. On the other hand, having two dipsticks points towards a 360/390 FE swap.

Where's HOTWRENCH when I need 'im

 

Great information for me to look into. Probably won't have too much time the next few days to go over and look at it again.

Is it typical for a 360/390 FE to have 2 dipsticks? If so why would this be?

Thx for the link to the hydrovac system. Sounds like that is what it is. I had never worked on the big trucks before so it seemed strange to me.

I looked for the VIN but was not in the usual spot I am used to finding them, or I just flatly missed it. Besided sounds like it may be swapped anyway. Besides I am pretty sure the tag in the cab says 330. I'll get that balancer number and check into the brakes with it running. Again thanks for all the information. You all have been very helpful.

 

No 390 or any other Ford gas engine (that I'm aware of) has two engine oil dipsticks. Two engine oil dipsticks is an indication that the engine may have been swapped.

The VIN is on the registration, and...

On the Warranty Plate which is located on the left door face below the latch (F500 and etc: It could be located on the inside of the glovebox door).

On the top side of the right (passenger) side frame rail just in front of, or partially under the cab.

 

Maybe a FE with a MD oil pan