Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Ford Vans and other vehicles > 1968-2013 Full Size Vans
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


1968-2013 Full Size Vans Econolines. E150, E250, E350, E450 and E550

Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #61  
Old 04-09-2010, 10:15 PM
gearloose1 gearloose1 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.
Here is the generally agreed R value for radiant foil insulation:

R 1.1 per layer is the value for applications like yours:

http://www.reflectixinc.com/images/u...nts%200609.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 04-09-2010, 10:46 PM
YoGeorge YoGeorge is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,752
YoGeorge is a splendid one to beholdYoGeorge is a splendid one to beholdYoGeorge is a splendid one to beholdYoGeorge is a splendid one to beholdYoGeorge is a splendid one to beholdYoGeorge is a splendid one to beholdYoGeorge is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearloose1 View Post
Thanks for coming by!

What I am trying to do is to find a way around the $80,000 or more motor homes.

I like the van format for 2 or 3 people. The fuel economy of a van without the big top.

I also think we all have to learn to live with less --- smaller spaces, etc.

So I am trying to do this thing on a shoestring.

I also think most RVs are basically built for a very limited temperature range and gas hogs.

That is, both fuel on the road and energy used while sitting still.

I am trying to get near house level insulation (R10) and economies to let me use this thing for nearly all weather camping.. all year.. everywhere from Alaska in winter to Mexico in the midst of summer.

Tall order!
That is a tall order. Most camping I've done in the last 10 years has been Boy Scouts and that was in tents, down to 18 degrees and up to hot mid-summer.

I always joke that I like keeping my van so if the economy really tanks and we lose everything, we could probably still live in it. A few years ago, I did some Googling on the van dweller lifestyle. I don't have it in me to go there, but it's a fun fantasy anyway. When I was a kid in the 1950's I remember being fascinated by the VW factory camper vans (dunno if they were called Westphalia back then or not).

The Turtle Tops were both really cheezy conversions, both materials and workmanship. After 8 years or so, the fiberglass tops would sag, water would puddle in them, and the sun would cause them to crack, turning the headliner into a gigantic mold culture. And I didn't want to think about what might happen if I rolled one down the side of a rocky mountain--with one side of the box (the top) cut out of the van. My favorite interior in some ways was the '86 GMC. We left the heater, icebox, and stovetop in, but had the rest of the interior gutted down to a captain's chair in right center and a folding conversion bench in the back. And tough **** carpeting on all the surfaces just like the old days. That stuff was indestructible and worked great.

More than 2 people in a van is really tight with stuff inside. My wife and I slept in our '96 Savana (passenger conversion) for a week at a time. We always carry bicycles--I just packed a couple in our van for my wife and me to use in recon at a collegiate bike race in Columbus tomorrow (my son is racing)--the parking lot is a mile from the start/finish line.

Like I said, I'll keep an eye on this only because I've been a van guy for many years.

George
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 04-10-2010, 08:27 AM
gearloose1 gearloose1 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoGeorge View Post
That is a tall order.

The Turtle Tops were both really cheezy conversions, both materials and workmanship. After 8 years or so, the fiberglass tops would sag, water would puddle in them, and the sun would cause them to crack, turning the headliner into a gigantic mold culture. And I didn't want to think about what might happen if I rolled one down the side of a rocky mountain--with one side of the box (the top) cut out of the van. My favorite interior in some ways was the '86 GMC. We left the heater, icebox, and stovetop in, but had the rest of the interior gutted down to a captain's chair in right center and a folding conversion bench in the back. And tough **** carpeting on all the surfaces just like the old days. That stuff was indestructible and worked great.

More than 2 people in a van is really tight with stuff inside.


If it isn't a tall order and I can buy what I want off the shelf... why bother?

I actually took a good hard look at Roadtrek used vehicles and concluded that they are just as you described.

Havens for mold, poorly made tops, etc.

The key with vans is to not try to do too much --- it is not a conventional house, but more like a small boat.

That means, regular cooking may be out --- a portable stove does the job.

Toilet? Pota potty.

Bath/Shower --- I am working on that one.


What I got so far is a very comfortable bed / office (that you cannot stand up in).


I got to solve the moisture / humidity problem first, before I move further.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 04-10-2010, 11:25 AM
WVVan's Avatar
WVVan WVVan is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 405
WVVan is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
The Pillar Panel.
A few posts back I mentioned the "beam" to the right of the side cargo door. I'm not sure what the correct name is but I'll call it the Side Cargo Pillar. To correctly cover this pillar requires extra work because besides the different structural elements it doesn't mate up evenly with the First Panel I installed which is on it's right. The mating problem is due to the first panel's being bowed into the van wall.
Click the image to open in full size.

When I lined up the first panel for trimming I positioned it so there was an extra inch to the left of the left edge of the pillar.
Click the image to open in full size.

This is so I can shift the cut panel to the right so it will overlap the first panel.
Click the image to open in full size.

Remember this overlap when you create the template.
Click the image to open in full size.

Cut and insulate this panel like the others.
Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Now to start modifying the panel. First up the Rectangular Bump.
The panel won't sit flush because of that. Need to remove some insulation to compensate.
Cover the rectangle with a piece of newspaper cut to be the same size. Roll some tape to make it sticky on each side and put on the paper. Then when you dry fit the panel push it against the paper and it will stick to where you need to remove the insulation.
Click the image to open in full size.

Remove insulation.
Click the image to open in full size.

Panel will fit flush now. Attach the panel with screws. Notice the gap on the bottom caused by the recess.
Click the image to open in full size.

Want to fill the gap for two reasons. A chance to add some extra insulation but more importantly is the need to add some edge trimming. The trim will hide everything behind the panel. The fabric covering will be glued to this trim. The added insulation will provide backing to support the trim pieces.
Cut and dry fit the insulation piece. The marks are so when it comes time to glue I'll know where to position it.
Click the image to open in full size.


You can see the gap along the right side of the pillar panel where the first panel bows into the van wall.
Into this gap, cut and dry fit foam insulation so it's flush with the panel edge.
Click the image to open in full size.

Next step. Place posterboard in the location where you need to create a trim piece. Just run a pencil along the edge where the posterboard meets the panel.
Click the image to open in full size.

Tape the marked posterboard to some fiberboard and cut along the line. You now have a trim piece.
Click the image to open in full size.

Here I'm using tape to hold the cut trim pieces in place. This covers the gap seen in the above picture. The extra foam pieces previous added are behind this edging providing support.
Click the image to open in full size.

Now to put it all together. Move all the pieces inside where it's warm enough to glue.
Use the contact cement along with clamps to glue on the foam pieces. Use the marks from before to reposition the foam pieces. I'm using a couple pieces of plywood to evenly apply pressure to the foam piece while the cement sets.
Click the image to open in full size.

Here are the foam pieces that go along the right side of the panel
Click the image to open in full size.

Once all the foam pieces are attached use them as backing to hold the edge pieces in place.
Use contact cement and clamps.
Click the image to open in full size.

That's it. I won't be posting information with this much excruciating detail about the rest of the panels I build. It's just that this single panel had most all of the problems I've run into so far so it made a good example.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 04-10-2010, 02:10 PM
gearloose1 gearloose1 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.
WVVan

You are going to far more trouble than I did....

I am using a lot of outdoor carpeting as trim.

The idea is the trim can be readily removed (velcroed on) so I can add wiring.. .mods.. etc.. after it is done.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 04-10-2010, 03:06 PM
WVVan's Avatar
WVVan WVVan is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 405
WVVan is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
A posting about Contact Cement.
This info refers to the DAP brand of Weldwood Contact Cement.
I went to buy another quart of contact cement at the local Ace Hardware store and they only had the "Original" formula not the "Nonflammable" formula which I had been using.

Nonflammable on the left in the following three pictures.
Click the image to open in full size.

The first quart of contact cement I had been using came from someone who no longer needed it so I hadn't paid any real attention before to the formulations. It just worked. Once I got to looking at the new quart it's obvious from just the lids that there's some important differences.
Click the image to open in full size.

Color, consistency and amount of fumes is also different.
Click the image to open in full size.

The Nonflammable formula is as thin as water while the original is thicker. Original formula puts off a lot more vapors.

On both cans it reads that they work on foam so I went ahead and used the new original formula can.
I'm gluing fabric to the foam backed fiberboard (will have a separate post on this).
You can see what happened below.
Click the image to open in full size.

The original formula is causing the foam to dissolve.
Have you seen how Alien blood goes through the floor of the spaceship Nostromo? Something like that.
The previous picture is from last night while still wet.
This is what it looks like today after drying.
Click the image to open in full size.

So Lesson Learned is to keep the Original formula away from extruded foam. Only use the Nonflammable formula when gluing to foam. Went to Lowe's this morning for a new can of the Nonflammable formula.
I will be using the can of Original formula when it comes time to laminate van furniture so it won't go to waste.

Supplies:
Ace Hardware: Weldwood Original Formula Contact Cement - Qt - 12.99
Lowes: Weldwood Nonflammable Formula Contact Cement - Qt - 13.98

In case you're wondering how I used up the first quart so fast I have some advice. Don't rest your can of contact cement on the piece you're working on. If you shift the piece the can might spill. Or worse yet, take a dive onto the floor. Yep, I knocked the whole can onto the floor where it landed, upside down of course. Click the image to open in full size.
On the bright side it was half empty. On the non-bright side it was half full. Take your pick
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 04-10-2010, 04:09 PM
gearloose1 gearloose1 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.
VWVan:

Would you recommend contact cement or carpet glue for what I am doing:

Gluing carpet (outdoor, not padded) onto the doors, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 04-10-2010, 05:09 PM
WVVan's Avatar
WVVan WVVan is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 405
WVVan is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
If it was me I'd attach the carpet to plywood then screw the plywood to the doors. That way you can always remove them if you have to. Considering the moisture problems you've talked about I'd advise against glueing anything that might get wet in case you end up having to remove it to dry it out.

My plan is to use cover my doors with a rigid foam/plywood/laminate sandwich. Laminate facing into the van of course. Then secure it to the door using either sheet metal screws or riv-nuts and screws
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 04-10-2010, 05:12 PM
WVVan's Avatar
WVVan WVVan is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 405
WVVan is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
First today's Ford van weather report:
Click the image to open in full size.

Yep, still cold.
Because of the weather I'm not able to do as much on the van as I'd like so instead I've been looking ahead. The first piece of furniture I'm planning on making will be the sofa-bed. There are several design considerations with such limited space so I'll need some dimension information.

Here are some diagrams I've drawn up. The measurements are not extremely accurate. They are for general planning purposes not actual cutting of materials. None are to scale.
The floor measurements are of the wood layer I've installed, not the metal base layer.
Click the image to open in full size.

The sofa-bed will sit behind the drivers seat so I'll need to know how close I can get to it.
Click the image to open in full size.

Another consideration is height. Part of the Penthouse Top installation was the addition of a Metal Edge that runs along the top edge of the van wall. This edge sits lower than the original ceiling. Need info on it's height and placement. In this photo you can see the Metal Edge along with what I call the Box which is a structural component of the Penthouse top. All these measurements are with the top down. The Bucket is also of note.
Click the image to open in full size.

Window behind drivers seat.
The sofa-bed will sit in front of this window so it's height is important.
Click the image to open in full size.

Cross section look at the wall.
Click the image to open in full size.

The heights to the ceiling farther away from the wall. 16 1/2" measurements is at the floor.
Click the image to open in full size.

Now for a self portrait.
I want the sofa seat to be as high as possible, for storage underneath, without hitting my head on the Metal Edge. I did "test sits" with different sized boxes and such and found that the Tidy Cat Bucket I'd been using as a work stool seems to be just about right.
So I'll plan on the sofa seat having the same height of around 14 1/2 inches from the floor. I'm 6' and that's what feels right for me. You should do your own "test sits" to see what you find to be comfortable.
Click the image to open in full size.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 04-10-2010, 05:41 PM
gearloose1 gearloose1 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVVan View Post
If it was me I'd attach the carpet to plywood then screw the plywood to the doors. That way you can always remove them if you have to. Considering the moisture problems you've talked about I'd advise against glueing anything that might get wet in case you end up having to remove it to dry it out.

My plan is to use cover my doors with a rigid foam/plywood/laminate sandwich. Laminate facing into the van of course. Then secure it to the door using either sheet metal screws or riv-nuts and screws

The problem with doing it your way is that the exposed metal areas are still exposed.

I have insulation inside the doors --- so I am quite covered on that and have rigid insulation (foam) on the side where the windows would have been.

The insides of the frame are not filled with foam --- concern with my lack of a serious foam spraying equipment and inability to completely fill with foam and block out moisture.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 04-10-2010, 06:12 PM
WVVan's Avatar
WVVan WVVan is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 405
WVVan is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Quote:
The problem with doing it your way is that the exposed metal areas are still exposed.
I agree. So I figure for those times of year when that will be a big problem I'll just carry extra foam panels or foil/bubble wrap or some combination of the two and use that to cover the exposed metal on the doors.
Since it is big metal box I know I'll never get it perfect. As long as I'm taking reasonable precautions I'll be happy.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 04-10-2010, 06:14 PM
WVVan's Avatar
WVVan WVVan is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 405
WVVan is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Covering wall panels.

By now I have insulated and test fitted some panels. Time for the next step.
Click the image to open in full size.

When I was at Sportsmobile in Indiana for the Penthouse Top installation they sold me a roll of fabric that was the same as they used on the inside trim work. The receipt has it at $10 a yard and it's called Encompass blue velour.
Click the image to open in full size.

Installation is easy enough. Cut the fabric so you have enough to wrap around the edges.
Click the image to open in full size.

This material has something similar to a "grain" where the velour is in lines. I took great care to position the cloth on the panel so these lines would be vertical when the panels were installed in the van. After I got it just like I wanted it I used a socket set to weigh down one side so the material wouldn't shift.
Click the image to open in full size.

Then carefully roll back the half that's not weighted.
Click the image to open in full size.

Apply contact cement to the half of the board that's exposed. The fiberboard will soak up part of the first coat you put down so usually I had to do two coats but be careful and don't overdo it or the contact cement will soak through the front of the cloth. Before I got to this step I used a scrap piece of fiberboard and cloth and tested it so I'd have a good idea of what was the right amount of cement to put down. I suggest you do the same.
Click the image to open in full size.

Carefully roll the fabric back over the now contact cement coated fiberboard. Use your hands to smooth it out. I then moved the socket set to the glued side.
Click the image to open in full size.

Roll back the fabric on the unglued side. Glue this second half like the first half.
Click the image to open in full size.

Roll the cloth back over the second glued half and carefully smooth everything out. Cover with some scrap plywood and let sit overnight.
Click the image to open in full size.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 04-10-2010, 06:43 PM
gearloose1 gearloose1 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.
For my walls, I went for paneling --- to cut the need to finish and have a more cleanable surface.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 04-10-2010, 07:43 PM
WVVan's Avatar
WVVan WVVan is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 405
WVVan is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Hey Gearloose,
For as much as you're posting about your van I'm surprised you don't have your own build thread. The more the merrier.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 04-10-2010, 08:22 PM
gearloose1 gearloose1 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.gearloose1 has a good reputation on FTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVVan View Post
Hey Gearloose,
For as much as you're posting about your van I'm surprised you don't have your own build thread. The more the merrier.

LOL... I am a doer, not a stop and take pictures type.

Hard to take good pictures when you are using a pressure washer wand on the innards..

Or mucking out the rocker panel with handfuls of mud... and old soda bottles, garbage...
Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2010, 08:22 PM
 
 
 
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HOWTO install new blower motor - 1999 Ford E-250 WVVan 1968-2013 Full Size Vans 16 11-20-2014 10:00 AM
HOWTO - Replace front rotors on a 1999 E-250, 2 wheel ABS WVVan 1968-2013 Full Size Vans 9 10-02-2014 12:45 AM
Uh-Oh, I think Hal is intercoursed WVVan 1968-2013 Full Size Vans 16 07-03-2014 10:49 PM
Brake line and hardware replacement info. 1999 Ford E-250 WVVan 1968-2013 Full Size Vans 1 09-16-2013 08:33 AM
FYI - Upgrade to Limited Slip Differential WVVan 1968-2013 Full Size Vans 0 08-29-2010 06:08 PM


Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Ford Vans and other vehicles > 1968-2013 Full Size Vans

Tags
1999, 2008, 250, asorbers, camper, cars, clutch, compressor, craigslist, ford, full, noise, salvage, shock, size, van

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


Participate In The Forums

Create new posts and participate in discussions. It's free!

Sign Up »





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup