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  #1  
Old 04-03-2010, 05:16 PM
Fords&Farmalls Fords&Farmalls is offline
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changing out 6 lug wheels on 65 f-350

Hello all
I have a 1965 F-350 dually that has 6 lug wheels front and back. The back tires are 7x17 and the front tires are 7.5x17 or something like that. They are tube tires running on the 'widow maker' split rims. Anyway, i'm sick of them. The only tires i can find are made by tornel, and it would cost over 1200.00$ to put tires on the truck. Now with the back, I know i can just swap in a new 8 lug rear and it will fit (the one in it now is a Spicer 70). However, its 2 wheel drive, and i've never worked on the front ends of 2 wheel drive trucks. i would like to put a front end in that is either 5 or 8 lug that fits a normal sized tire. Are the front ends on the 70's ford trucks the same, or at least can I just unbolt the hub/break assembly where the wheel turns and bolt on another assembly off a 70's ford? Or will i have to pull out all the front end suspentsion and steering components off another truck and fabricate a whole new front end. Really, the overall goal here is to put a 5 or 8 lug wheel up front, and have the tires 16 or 16.5 (something that is actually available) and get away from the split rims at the same time. I greatly appreciate everybody's time
Garrett Schorran
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  #2  
Old 04-04-2010, 05:15 AM
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Garrett, I'm betting you have a flatbed and you really like your trucks body style. IMHO you would be miles ahead finding a later 70s chassis with the setup that you like, lifting your cab/front clip together and rolling out one chassis and back under the new. What ever you have behind the cab likely would be easier to swap over the rears and front axle under the existing.

I know it doesn't take a lot to remove the 6 mounts and lift the cab/clip. You could get a lot of upgrades at one time.

Thing is, I'm not sure if your 350 isn't still based on the pre 65 setup.

I'm sure we'll get more input shortly.




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Old 04-04-2010, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fords&Farmalls View Post
I have a 1965 F-350 dually that has 6 lug wheels front and back. Are the front ends on the 70's ford trucks the same, or at least can I just unbolt the hub/break assembly where the wheel turns and bolt on another assembly off a 70's ford? Or will i have to pull out all the front end suspentsion and steering components off another truck and fabricate a whole new front end.
All 1953/66 F350's have 6 lug wheels on a 7.25" bolt circle pattern.

1967 is when Ford began using 8 lug wheels on a 6.50" bolt circle on F350's. The wheels (except for F350's w/DRW) are the same as F250's.

The problem with '53/66 F350's is...you really have no other wheel choices. Ford did offer 16" wheels for these F350's, but these are next to impossible to find.

F350's used Dana 70's from 1953 thru 1984, except with 4WD (1979/84). 4WD's came with Dana 60 front/rear axles. The Sterling 10.25" rear axle was first used in 1985.
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  #4  
Old 04-04-2010, 03:29 PM
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Stockton Wheel will make new wheels using your centers and adding Modern tubeless hoops.

Not cheap but it is really the only way to replace the split rings. As ND stated there are six lug out there but they are really hard to find. Look to Old U haul trucks for six lug Dayton rims.

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  #5  
Old 04-05-2010, 07:34 AM
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First of all, you are wise to be rid of the "widow maker" split rims, if that is in fact what you have. I'll assume you know that they are the kind where the wheel halves join at about the middle of the rim. The technical term for them is Firestone RH-5°. If you are unsure whether yours are widowmakers or lock ring style, come back and I'll post pics of both types. There's no functional reason to change wheels if you have lock rings.

I've seen this question asked several times, but have never read where anyone has found a simple way to swap a whole front axle, or an easy way to do the swap at the kingpins or just different hubs on stock spindles. Swapping the whole axle commonly means incompatible steering connectivity. And with all due respect to John above, doing a frame swap seems like overkill. I'll side with Garbz and suggest that finding tubeless replacement wheels with your 6 lug x 7.25" circle is the best option.

In addition to the ones Bill mentioned, tubeless 17.5" x 5.25" dually wheels were sourced on F-350s, Dodge D-300s, and IHC 130s. Ford used them between 1957 and 1966, Dodge between 1958 and 1968, and IHC between 1957 and 1968. The wheel is a Budd product having their part #79120 and National Wheel and Rim Association (NWRA) #X-45057. They have your correct "coined in/out" mounting.

I know where a set sits on a '57 F-350 in a yard near Salt Lake City. I can post a picture if you want to inquire about them. The guy's name is Corey and phone number is (801) 782-7502. Also, on other posts Bill has cited a Southern CA truck wrecking yard that he says has a good supply of old truck wheels. He's given the guy's name as Marty and phone number (323) 587-3144. Purchase from either souce plus shipping would be expensive, but not as bad as having custom wheels made.

If you do decide to go with custom wheels, Stockton sells wheels they call their Power Wagon series. Before going to Stockton, though, you should be aware that they have been flamed in recent years for poor quality. The worst flaming has occurred on the HAMB. Here's the thread. Stockton Wheel - THE H.A.M.B.. If you do go to Stockton be sure to give them the exact backspacing info that you'll be needing. Also be carefull to not go with a shorter wheel that might not clear your drums. The wheels I cite above have 4.75" of offset.

Another source that I've visited and bought wheels from is American Wheel Specialist in Pasco, WA. They are the wholesale custom truck wheel supplier for the huge Les Schwab chain of tire stores on the west coast. Since you live in PA, you are outside the Schwab service area which allows AWS to work directly with you. I was told when I visited them a couple years ago (might have changed by now) that they didn't have a yard supply of donor wheels having the 6 lug x 7.25" circle. So they would probably want you to pull your centers so they could remount them in new rims. If you want to discuss it with either the owner, Juan Murillo, or his son Shaun their phone number is (509) 543-9305. Hope that helps. Stu
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  #6  
Old 04-05-2010, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truckdog62563 View Post
First of all, you are wise to be rid of the "widow maker" split rims, if that is in fact what you have. I'll assume you know that they are the kind where the wheel halves join at about the middle of the rim. The technical term for them is Firestone RH-5°. If you are unsure whether yours are widowmakers or lock ring style, come back and I'll post pics of both types. There's no functional reason to change wheels if you have lock rings.

I've seen this question asked several times, but have never read where anyone has found a simple way to swap a whole front axle, or an easy way to do the swap at the kingpins or just different hubs on stock spindles. Swapping the whole axle commonly means incompatible steering connectivity. And with all due respect to John above, doing a frame swap seems like overkill. I'll side with Garbz and suggest that finding tubeless replacement wheels with your 6 lug x 7.25" circle is the best option.

In addition to the ones Bill mentioned, tubeless 17.5" x 5.25" dually wheels were sourced on F-350s, Dodge D-300s, and IHC 130s. Ford used them between 1957 and 1966, Dodge between 1958 and 1968, and IHC between 1957 and 1968. The wheel is a Budd product having their part #79120 and National Wheel and Rim Association (NWRA) #X-45057. They have your correct "coined in/out" mounting.

I know where a set sits on a '57 F-350 in a yard near Salt Lake City. I can post a picture if you want to inquire about them. The guy's name is Corey and phone number is (801) 782-7502.

Also, on other posts Bill has cited (Southern California Truck Wrecking / 8229 S. Alameda St / Los Angeles CA 90001 / In business and owned by the same family since 1929) that he says has a good supply of old truck wheels. He's given the guy's name as Marty (he's the owner, don't speak with anyone else, as they are clueless, some don't 'habla ingles') phone number (323) 587-3144. Purchase from either source plus shipping would be expensive, but not as bad as having custom wheels made.
I've been hitting So Cal since 1967 (when Marty was wearing diapers, and his father and uncle were running the place), so I pretty well know what they have.

Marty calls me every so often...when he can't find something old...he thinks he has.

btw: There's a pair of NOS 1959/60 F350/600 fenders there...if anyone's interested.
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  #7  
Old 04-05-2010, 09:31 PM
Fords&Farmalls Fords&Farmalls is offline
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Wow, thank you very much to everyone who responded
I'll have to see which way i'm going to go with it. The truck really isnt worth too much, so i want to avoid putting too much money into it if possible. I guess I have some phone calls to make now.
Thanks again
Garrett Schorran
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  #8  
Old 04-06-2010, 05:48 AM
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Here's the '57 if you're gonna call the guy. Stu

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Old 01-20-2011, 04:22 PM
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57 f350 tires

Hey all you ford nuts, I am a Ford Nut too. I just bought (after nearly 3 years of persuing) a 57 F350 Napco 4X4 with the power winch PTO from the tranfer case. This truck was built for the Mt Lodge fire dept in Maine.
The truck needs total restoration but its all there and it all works. What Im looking for are tires, my sizes are 8-19.5.
Basically pizza cutters. I can find plain jane tires all day long but was looking for an aggresive tread pattern like old snow tires or off road tires. Anyone have an idea? Thanks Mike
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Old 01-20-2011, 05:06 PM
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The Rickson site has a pretty good side-by-side comparison of available tires. Here's the links to both 8R19.5 and 225/70R19.5s. Stu

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Old 01-21-2011, 06:55 AM
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Saved by the Dog

hey Dog thank you for that site, looks like Ill be placing an order.
hey do you see alot of 57 F350 Napco trucks around? Ive searched but man I cant find 1 out there. Bad *** truck though, cant wait to cruise'er down the road with that big *** bumper/winch saying 'Move it or lose it' to all the chevy/dodge trucks.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:22 PM
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I have 4 7.50x20 tires for my 65 ford flatbed truck. F-500. Only to find out that the 6-lug widow makers are really shot. Now, I need 4 rims for the dually rear. these are harder to find than the tires were.

Any help will be appreciated
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:09 PM
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I am in S/E Michigan and if my F 500 doesn't run this weekend I may part it out to get at the cab
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57F350 View Post
hey Dog thank you for that site, looks like Ill be placing an order.
hey do you see alot of 57 F350 Napco trucks around? Ive searched but man I cant find 1 out there. Bad *** truck though, cant wait to cruise'er down the road with that big *** bumper/winch saying 'Move it or lose it' to all the chevy/dodge trucks.
Glad you found what you're looking for. Your Napco is a rare beast. Probably similar in numbers to the smaller model Marmon-Herringtons like mine.

65FordTruck2 - The bolt pattern used on the one ton models, like above, is 6 lug x 7.25" bolt circle. An F-500 would have a bigger 6 lug x 8.75" bolt circle. If your truck has a "stud piloted" mounting, new tubeless 22.5" wheels having this pattern are still being made by Accuride. Catalog link below.

http://www.accuridewheels.com/studpilot.pdf

If you want to go with used wheels, you should be able to find either tube type 20" wheels having a "lock ring" mounting as shown in the picture below, or used tubeless 22.5"s. Below is a side-by-side comparison of the tube type and tubeless to show the different bead and sidewall tire profiles of each design. Locking ring tube type on the left, tubeless on the right.

Click the image to open in full size.

If, however, you have "hub piloted" widowmaker 20" wheels, nobody has made replacements for these for a lot of years. Guys have, however, had success converting their trucks from a "hub piloted" to "stud piloted" mounting. Below is a thread where a guy did it. Next I'll link in a diagram of the "hub piloted" mounting design, also called a "Motor Wheel" mounting. That is followed by the "stud piloted" mounting, also called "ball seat" or "Budd" type mounting. You'll see that these are old diagrams. These two mounting systems have been in use and unchanged since the 1930s.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/87...er-wheels.html

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

Looking at these diagrams you'll see that the studs on a "hub piloted" mounting are not always fully threaded to the base of the hub. This fact prevents the seating of the "inner cap nut" that is used with the "stud piloted" mount. To remedy this guys have had to install replacement "stud piloted" studs. These will be both left hand and right hand threads, while a "hub piloted" stud will always be right hand thread only. Stu
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  #15  
Old 02-17-2011, 06:19 PM
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Great information, you guys are really resourceful.
My thing is this, my truck is awesome as is, kinda rusty and runs mint because it has only 5600 original miles. Fire dept owned it never got much use.
The skinny pizza cutters are cool tires but they are what they are. The cost is nearly 1500 to replace them and Id still have skinny tires.
Stockton Wheel in Cali will make me rims to accomodate beefy tires at a cost of 1300 and these wheels are not even pretty to look at.
So, I am still looking for the best options to put wider tires on my truck.
BTW, I cant seem to navigate this site to well. How do you post a picture of your truck on here? Thanks again.
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:19 PM
 
 
 
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