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...Do you know what the flow rate would be through a 0.030" orfice is at 40 psi? I'm not smart enough to figure that out. That will give us an answer as to what the Amsoil system actually flows...
Well ..."I'm not smart enough to figure that out."... either so I started investigating this question by Googling and came across several interesting and somewhat related finds...
..."I would have expected that the orifice restrictions in the top of the riser tube would be the controlling factor that determines bypass flow through the filter. ...That is apparently not the case with the AC-B and others like it. ...This easier path results in a lower oil pressure (by over 30%) and a lower oil flow to the engine bearings, etc.
I don't intend to use any NAPA 1101 (or WIX 51101) filters in the future until the design is changed."...
As can be seen below it appears my comparison of UOA results to blood test results isn't quite the stretch that some might've imagined!
..."Over the years, I've encountered many interesting human-body analogies to machinery lubrication and oil analysis. Blood clotting is one of the best. It is amazingly similar to a variety of conditions relating to leakage and the restricted oil movement in machinery.
This is why a sudden change in lubricant chemistry, such as the introduction of an ester-based synthetic lubricant, can dissolve or carry away these binding agents, leading to leakage once again. In some instances, large clumps of particles can become dislodged and resuspended as a result of a fluid chemistry change. These mobilized clumps can later be pulled into orifices and oilways, causing flow restriction and catastrophic lubrication failure.
So the moral to the story is this: If you want your contaminants to serve as "stop leak" agents, then a dirty and more sludgy oil is better (I'm kidding, of course). Static seals and leaky fittings/connectors benefit the most. However, if you don't want your oil to carry hard, gummy particles into critical clearances and orifices, I suggest you take a hygienic approach by keeping it clean, dry and healthy. No doubt, you've been given that advice before."...
The graph below can be used to estimate the #=number of UOA detectable Iron BBs that were worn away from your engine during a given K-mile OCI...
...and the graph below can be used to estimate the #=number of UOA detectable Iron BBs that are in your engine's life expectancy "savings account" at some given mileage.
Since the WR#5 curve on the above graph represents "above average" wear it probably gives a conservative estimate of the engine's remaining life expectancy in terms of the # of UOA detectable Iron BBs remaining ...so for example if you're currently at the 200K-mile B10 life expectancy when you do your first UOA you've probably got at least 60 Iron BBs of life expectancy remaining ...and then you can start "counting down" from 60 Iron BBs by using UOAs and the first graph to estimate the # of Iron BBs consumed for each subsequent OCI.
...Do you know what the flow rate would be through a 0.030" orfice is at 40 psi? I'm not smart enough to figure that out. That will give us an answer as to what the Amsoil system actually flows...
Well ..."I'm not smart enough to figure that out."... either so I started investigating this question by Googling and it's a question that's been asked on the "Physics Forums"... orifice plate diameter sizing ...but when you go to some of the references they give such as... Orifice plate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...you get a whole lot of complicated equations to go along with this picture...
...and basically these wiki equations say that the flow of a fluid through an orifice has to conform with a number of scientific principles such as the conservation of mass and the conservation of energy etc... but not wanting to make this a year-long project I continued my Googling and read that ..."Flow through an orifice is arrived at in a straightforward manner by the application of Bernoulli's equation. However experimental tests typically produce a result which is only some 65% of the solution indicated by the simple analysis."... so I see no reason to spend a lot of time trying to calculate an answer that will at best only have a 65% accuracy!
I did come across a power-point briefing on "Pressure through the Orifice Effect" and below are a some of the lead-in charts...
..."The pump moves the hydraulic fluid ...Pumps create flow not pressure ...Come in positive fixed displacement and variable displacement ...Fix displacement: Moves the same amount of fluid every rotation ...Variable displacement: The amount of fluid discharged can be changed and controlled."...
..."The Orifice Effect ...In hydraulics it is common to use the term “pump pressure”. However the pump does not produce pressure only flow. When flow is restricted pressure is created. In the system we have here the pump is producing a flow of 1 gallon per minute but note that do to the lack of any restriction the system pressure is zero."...
..."An orifice offers a restriction to pump flow ...When oil flows through the orifice, pressure is created on the upstream side of the orifice. ...In this example it could be stated that a pressure of 30 psi is needed to send a flow of 1 GPM through this orifice."...
However then the equations begin and even the briefer said that the complications made his head do this...
...so in order to avoid making my head do the same I suggest asking Amsoil how much LOP flow their system actually by-passes when it's installed on a 7.3L PSD! I would think that Amsoil must know the flow rate of the stock LOP and determined the proper size orifice to avoid by-passing too much for the stock LOP to handle?
Here's a few more tidbits from my Googling...
The "oil pump" can be compared to the "heart" in a human body. A high quality oil pump must deliver the required flow (gpm) of oil to the engine throughout the temperature and RPM range with enough pressure to assure the right amount of oil is delivered to the rod bearings and piston crowns which are the most difficult parts to lubricate and cool.
An oil pump delivers a relatively constant volume of oil for every revolution of the pump. The flow (Gallons Per Minute, or GPM) of oil delivered increases directly with pump RPM, almost without regard to delivery pressure. The delivery pressure is determined by the size of the effective orifice the pump is delivering oil to. That effective orifice is the combined size of all the holes for oil to flow through in the engine: rod, main and cam bearing clearances, lifter-body clearances, valve train restrictors, rocker-arm orifices, spring oilers, piston squirts, etc.
..."The stock pump is not capable of supplying the adequate amount of oil to maintain the right oil pressures and this problem causes the main bearings to abnormally wear out."...
..."In drifting, circuit running or drag racing, the higher G forces of both vertical and horizontal will cause bad oil circulation due to the oil pickup not having adequate access to oil during cornering forces and air goes in to the pipe instead of oil and interrupts continuous oil lubrication. Without oil, metal surface contact directly each other, then the temperature rises explosively and causing worn out if its lasts long."...
The Amsoil filterhead I have is from a universal kit that plumbs into the oil supply filters a small amount and returns to the filtered oil to sump. The orifice size is .030" and not more than .125" long. I was wondering if you could determine from that how much oil it would flow at 40 psi.
Good information by the way thanks for that.
I did obtain a 100 psi full sweep gauge. I could not find the 60 psi gauge for my pressure test. I am working on the filter mount now, but I work slow.
I finally finished ding my pressure checks both with and without bypass filter systems and here are the results.
Useing Motorcraft 15w-40 oil with 4740 miles since the last change. Four quarts of Rotella 15w-40 were added as makeup oil due to a previous high pressure leak and loss when installing the pressure fittings.
Cold Start @ 72* F...................52 psi @ idle
After 16 miles highway driving.....22 psi @ idle
42 psi @ 1600 rpm
44 psi @ 1900 rpm
52 psi @ 3000 rpm full load
Oil pan temp measure with a noncontact thermometer was 185* F.
Changed oil to Amsoil 15w-40 Heavey Duty Diesel and Marine Oil. AMSOIL - Synthetic Diesel & Marine Motor Oil SAE 15W-40 (AME)
Block was still slightly warm during my cold start pressure test.
Cold Start @ 73* F...................48 psi @ idle
After 16 miles highway driving.....25 psi @ idle
43 psi @ 1600 rpm
44 psi @ 1900 rpm
52 psi @ 3000 rpm full load
Oil pan temp was 191* F.
Installed Amsoil bypass filter system BMK21 with a EaBP90 filter (cause that's what I stock). AMSOIL - By-pass Oil Filter Mounting Kits The engine was still quite warm so no cold start pressure was taken.
After another 16 miles highway driving.....22 psi @ idle
42 psi @ 1600 rpm
44 psi @ 1900 rpm
52 psi @ 3000 rpm full load
Oil pan temp was 185* F.
I have no explination for the higher oil pan temp before the bypass install. I did make 3 WOT passes in that 16 miles instead of one for each of the others. As a disclaimer, these tests only apply to the bypass system tested. The oil pressures do indicate there should be no ill efects from running one of these systems and the LPOP can easily keep a safe oil pressure.
The first pic shows where connected my bypass unit and pressure gauge. The second pic shows the return oil connected to the inspection port in the block near the oil filter. The last pic (for anyone interested) shows how I mounted the filter under the cab on the bracket for my step bar.
Yep, just on once in a while when I can. I thought after moving up to Sioux Falls life would slow down a bit. Between the new job and the kids out of school for the summer I am strapped for time. Looking foward to our camping trip next week - gonna be nice.
Well, it's been almost 5 years since the last post - I'm ready to get my latest sample pulled and sent into the lab. I'm ready if you are Eugene to plot my Iron wear #'s on the graph.......I hope you are well and still enjoying your RV time!
Same setup as in 2010, same injectors, the only thing different is that I pulled the VC's off to replace the glow plugs & torque down the injector hold down bolts.
Still using Schaeffer's 15W-40 series 7000 oil and still running the Oilguard Bypass system.
UOAs only pick up particle sizes in the 3-8 micron range (mostly rubbing particles), major wear usually produces wear particles in the 15-20 micron range. Spectrographic analysis is just this side of useless for comparing the wear characteristics of oils, it's best for determining oil change intervals, air and oil filtration, fuel dilution, etc. If you want to see what additive package works better you might want to consider having a ferrography done in conjunction with UOA. UOAs and ferrographic analysis often don't correlate at all, it is not uncommon for an oil that produces better wear numbers in UOAs produce more large particle wear. In fact, most antiwear additives (moly, ZDDP, etc.) show more rubbing particles within the range of detection of the spectrographic UOA but be far superior in reducing actual wear.
That Delo add pack looks like a definite cut above the rest though.
"consider having a ferrography done in conjunction with UOA"
This is what I plan on doing from now on if the Particle Quantifier test comes back high (waiting on a price quote)........
The ($24) kits I ordered from Polaris includes these tests:
Elemental Metals Analysis (24 by ICP)
Oxidation
Water by Crackle (estimate)
Nitration
Viscosity @ 40° or 100°C
Base Number or Acid Number
Fuel Dilution %
Particle Quantifier (Ferrous Density)
Fuel Soot % (Diesel / Gasoline Only)
I'm on hold for an oil analysis this month. The oil cooler was leaking and had to repair that & dump the coolant & oil. unfortunately I did not have any test kits from Polaris until after the oil cooler O-ring repair. I have all the kits & prepaid for the ferrography. Just need to drive some more miles now.........
Finally goot about 6K miles on her since my last post. Got my latest oil analysis back this week. All looks good. The Potassium & Sodium is most likely from the oil cooler change. Viscosity is still holding strong and Oxidation is very low. I could go another 2-3K on the oil but I always like starting the camping/pulling season with a fresh pan......
05-29-2010, 01:05 PM
