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  #1381  
Old 07-13-2014, 08:44 AM
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I'm nowhere near a jag expert, but in my machinist days the shear number of aluminum jag heads I saw that were complete junk was astounding. That's my gripe, many would chock it up to poor coolant maintenance but IIRC the aluminum they used contributed greatly to the issue. Mostly however I had to toss something out there so I did.

Worst is hard, sure a lot of engines weren't good but many were early before they knew better or cheap engines from cheap companies. Also we talking families or specific models, overall design flaws or specific issues on otherwise good engines, know what I mean? However a couple bad engines that should have been much better come to mind now, both Cadillac's, the 4.1 and the northstar.

The 5.7 diesel comes to mind, I don't consider that an overall flawed design. It was crippled by GMs poor final execution and how they dealt with it. Largely it only had one real flaw, they used very insufficient torque to yield head bolts, the head bolts failed of course, this was made worse by the GM dealer techs re-using the bolts on the inevitable warranty head gasket repairs.
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  #1382  
Old 07-13-2014, 08:57 AM
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william.a.vose
Brute, I owned two different cars with the 5.7L diesel, got real proficient at changing head gaskets. The real issue with these, only 10 head bolts per head, and they were 1/2-13, same as a 351W. The upgraded bolts were actually never torque to yield, but were some tough material, stronger than GR8 bolts.

The common failure on these was the inboard bolt on the left bank between #5 and #7 cylinder. Since they fired one after the other, the peak load on this bolt was incredible (found this out when we acquired a Raymond Boltmaster at work) as a result, this bolt would fatigue fail from the cyclic loading.

As for reusing the bolts, GMs recall and various TSBs instructed that all the bolts be replaced, just like a 3.8L Ford V6.
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  #1383  
Old 07-13-2014, 09:03 AM
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Two bad ones just came to mind;

The chevy 2.8L V6, that sucker was total junk. never made decent power and never lasted long. I'd be surprised if there are many at all still on the road.

The Jeep 4.0L I6, this is an interesting one as it has a long history, it's an evolution of the Nash I6 engine taken over by AMC when Nash went bankrupt and put in Jeeps when AMC bought Jeep in the mid 60s, then continued by Chrysler when they bought Jeep. Anyway, they never made decent power and one that will last 200Kmi is rare indeed. They have very poor rod bearing oiling and generally start getting a knock in the IIRC #4 rod bearing long before reaching 200K depending on oil maintenance.
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  #1384  
Old 07-13-2014, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85lebaront2 View Post
Brute, I owned two different cars with the 5.7L diesel, got real proficient at changing head gaskets. The real issue with these, only 10 head bolts per head, and they were 1/2-13, same as a 351W. The upgraded bolts were actually never torque to yield, but were some tough material, stronger than GR8 bolts.

The common failure on these was the inboard bolt on the left bank between #5 and #7 cylinder. Since they fired one after the other, the peak load on this bolt was incredible (found this out when we acquired a Raymond Boltmaster at work) as a result, this bolt would fatigue fail from the cyclic loading.

As for reusing the bolts, GMs recall and various TSBs instructed that all the bolts be replaced, just like a 3.8L Ford V6.
Wow well I learn something new everyday, I was going off what I remember of what I've read. A while back I was mildly interested in building one, I thought it might have potential as a good diesel for a Jeep CJ and did some internet searching having never owned or even worked on one. I take it then you're not a fan of those engines?

I have to tip my hat to you, you know your stuff.
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  #1385  
Old 07-13-2014, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by joey2fords View Post
for the hauling that i do, i had to move to a 3/4 ton truck, but before that i drove a nissan 2.4 litre for many hundreds of thousand of miles ... ridiculously trouble-free and dependable. everyone i ever met who owned one agreed.
I tend to agree, I'm a fan of Nissan engines in general. I was all about hot rodding my 510 with a hoped up L-series back in the day. Had an L18 with a L16 SS head, DCOEs, a stahl header and big erson cam. That sucker would scream, I had a blast kicking Honda **** in my always underestimated 72 2dr 510.

These days I got my mom driving a maxima with a 3.0, so far 140K completely trouble free miles and no signs of wear.
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  #1386  
Old 07-13-2014, 09:56 AM
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Not a big fan of them in some ways, in others, yes. 31 mpg highway in a full size 4dr sedan. It was a 1978 Olds Delta 88 Royale with the handling package added. I had a front and rear sway bar set that was listed for Delta 88 and Catalina Police cars, that and one size up tires and Koni shocks when the originals wore out. Trivia, my front Konis were some of the first out of the newly opened Harrisonburg VA plant.

Car would go around an exit ramp at double the posted safe speed and scare the heck out of other cars, it sat like a police Chevy. I drove it to Jacksonville FL to a Mercedes-Benz training center. The head of the center asked the second day if they could borrow it for a while, next thing I know, I hear the sound of an 8 cyl diesel on their chassis dyno. When I got the keys back later, I had a full tank of fuel.
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  #1387  
Old 07-13-2014, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruteFord View Post
The Jeep 4.0L I6, this is an interesting one as it has a long history, it's an evolution of the Nash I6 engine taken over by AMC when Nash went bankrupt and put in Jeeps when AMC bought Jeep in the mid 60s, then continued by Chrysler when they bought Jeep. Anyway, they never made decent power and one that will last 200Kmi is rare indeed. They have very poor rod bearing oiling and generally start getting a knock in the IIRC #4 rod bearing long before reaching 200K depending on oil maintenance.
never heard this before. everything i have ever heard of jeep is that the 4.0 is the most dependable engine they ever used.
i know of 6 jeep 4.0 six cylinder engines with over 300,000 miles on them that have never been taken apart, and my buddy that runs a junk yard has never had a jeep come in that did not still run like a top. the body will fall off them but they still purr.
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  #1388  
Old 07-13-2014, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjc transport View Post
never heard this before. everything i have ever heard of jeep is that the 4.0 is the most dependable engine they ever used.
i know of 6 jeep 4.0 six cylinder engines with over 300,000 miles on them that have never been taken apart, and my buddy that runs a junk yard has never had a jeep come in that did not still run like a top. the body will fall off them but they still purr.
I think that 4.0 inline six is a sweet engine. I have never owned one but have several friends with older jeeps with that motor and they have been trouble free...good power and fuel economy also. I drove an old girlfriends Cherokee with a manual tranny on a 1100 mile trip about 12 years ago and I was impressed. 4 people and loaded with camping gear and food and it just hummed along on the highway and through the mountains.
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  #1389  
Old 07-13-2014, 01:26 PM
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When your motor passes 300,000 with no problems then I will believe you
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  #1390  
Old 07-13-2014, 01:39 PM
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You want over 300,000 I had a Mercedes-Benz 220S with the M180V (vergasser) engine, 450,000 before the floor got so bad you could check the tire wear through the rust holes. My best friend has an 03 E-250 with over 600,000 on the 5.4L engine.
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  #1391  
Old 07-13-2014, 01:49 PM
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[QUOTE=85lebaront]ok I believe you because you mentioned the flinstone action.I drove a 240 inline 6 3/4 ton Ford.took it passed 850,000. and it rotted away.
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  #1392  
Old 07-13-2014, 02:03 PM
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IMO really not that hard to get an engine, even gassers to 300K these days. Just takes a decent engine that isn't undersized or abused while being well maintained. Engines are better all around and cost effective synthetic oils have made a huge difference.

As for the 4.0 thing, my experience is a lot of rod knocks. I might have been a little to harsh though. Maybe it's a Chrysler version thing cause I'll have to admit a lot of the AMC versions are still kicking. My dad's owned 2 4.0s the first in a small Cherokee made it about 220K, the second he still owns in a Wrangler Rubicon and he hates it.
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  #1393  
Old 07-13-2014, 03:05 PM
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A friend of mine had a 75 Gremlin with a 258 i6. It was 1 of the toughest lil engines I have ever seen. He sold it to another friend after about 175,000 and as far as I know it is running today.
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Old 08-24-2014, 04:26 PM
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I've never heard of a bad Jeep 4.0L before. I think it's pretty much unanimous that the inline six engines last the longest. The ford 300, the Jeep 4.0L (apparently debatable though), the Toyota 2JZ...
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  #1395  
Old 08-24-2014, 04:43 PM
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Yeah, those are the longest lasting gas engines, I thought. My friend bought a 95 Wrangler our Junior year of high school with 210k on it and he dogged the **** out of it till he totaled it at 320k.

My dad's old 95 F150 with the 300 made it to 250k before he traded it in.
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Old 08-24-2014, 04:43 PM
 
 
 
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