You have to admit a 6.9 in a lincoln road battleship would make a nice cruiser.

Fuzzy dice, ZF 5 speed, dual strait pipes, turbo and NO stacks LOL!

 

Leave the ZF shifter full length, black primer spray bomb it, big painted steel wheels with moon hubcaps on wide whites. I'm thinking a '61-63 Continental with the suicide doors.
That would make a sweet cruiser!!!

Yeah, and definitely minus the stacks.

Jason

 

If you can, can not or are incapable of checking my statements out first then sad for you but I am mostly correct. The MEL and 6.9 engines if compared together complete and apart, they are very similar, just machining and some casting provisions differ. Have you ever stood beside one? "MEL that is" Yes several changes were made but deck height length and width are the same machining is different as well deletion of distributor but I stand by my statement as I have seen them side by side.

The frames are the same on 250 and 100 accept for the cross member for the rear shocks "the only difference". Thickness of the metal and the frame height, width are the same, did you know you can put 2wd 250 brakes(drum) on a 100 2wd spindle as well?

You should weigh an FE and see just what she really tips out at " but yes striped down no water pump or fly wheel or accessories it might get down to 600's the intake if iron is about 100 lbs.

But you are entitled to your opinion as am I but I have compared them by striping them both down "I refer to both engines and the trucks, first hand" . Also the 534 gas engine is the same animal IH or Ford as well, just like the engine in the old TOYota land cruiser is a 300 ford with different machining as well, have seen them both torn apart side by side also.

Sorry this hit me after the first part, the mid 69' 70' and 71' year trucks changed the rear shock mounts to the shaft bound stud type like what is up front just longer, on 250/350 only though. Oh and the 462 MEL has 4.362 bore 430 4.125 bore stroke is the same, also the heads are flat as in no combustion chamber combustion takes place in the piston on all these engines (359,383,410,430,462) yes they made a 359 and 410 in an MEL too.

Yes an old Continental would be cool with a 6.9, so would a 61' Starliner drop top!

 

Well if they are the same but with different machining compareing a 6.9 to the mel is like compareing a harly to a shadow. I don't know what the weight of a FE motor is but do know that according to ford the 460 was the heaviest of there motors back in there days and it weighed in at 720, which was also heavier than a big block gm.

If you care to read the history of the 6.9 7.3 series motors they were not designed after any other motor.

 

True they are completely diff now, but Ford discontinued the MEL for cooling problems as well oil leakage problems, and I feel IH bought the motor and fixed what ford was unwilling to, fuel wise as well. The 460's are heavy even with aluminum heads and intake they top 675 dry.


I'd like to put an 6.9 in my 47' 3ton with a 5spd and 450 drive axles and make a Jr. deuce with a dump bed, think I'll put up a movie on you tube of my F59 farm truck with 3" pipe and a glass pack man she sounds good specially with load on!


I have read "all most" the total history of IH they started out in Charlottesville Va. under McCormick Harvester late in 1800's, and the company CEO in (1913?) I think, any way he went to a meeting with Communists like the Rockefeller's, Carnegie, and the Bellamy brothers ETC. to form a plan to run small farmers out of business by way of tax and mandatory public schooling. There is a lot we never learned in school, look this site PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE SECRETS OF FRANCIS BELLAMY, EDWARD BELLAMY & MORE. History encyclopedia & news library. Historian & Journalist Dr. Rex Curry - Libertarian Lawyer http://rexcurry.net/pledge-allegiance-pledge-allegiance2.jpg Looking Backward, Yout man what we don't know does fill the universe. IH is good company but like Ford or any of the other American Corps. a few Commies ruin everything, just look at D.C. or city hall for that matter.

Not sure if you would agree but like Hank Jr. said "man if the south woulda won we'd have it made!"

 

That is like saying that a 351 Windsor and a 350 Chevy are very similar when disassembled. Sure, several changes where made, moving the oil filter, distributor, water outlets, flow, oil passages, crank and rod dimensions, cylinder head design... But they ARE both V8's made of iron.

I will admit to not being a savant when it comes to the MEL engine. However, looking through some shop manuals and a little online searching, I find no specs that cross over from any MEL 383-462 to the 6.9 or 7.3 when it comes to bore and stroke, rod and main dimensions, and any other engine specs. Physical appearance doesn't do much to support your argument, either.

I have read that the 6.9 was a dieselized version of IH's medium duty gasoline engine family, that includes the 446, which was widely used in the 1970’s. The 6.9 was similar to the appearance and manufacturing technology of the 446, but was based on a completely new design. It implemented improvements such as oil squirters to cool the pistons, hardened nodular iron crankshaft, four bolt main crank caps, hydraulic roller lifters...


I would agree that a F100 and an F250 2wd <<<<(keyword) share many of the same components that are interchangeable.
But read the original post heading "70 F100 4x4". A 1/2 ton 2wd and 4wd frame are a bit different forward of the cab. And an F250 4wd is even different yet. Ask anyone that has attempted a 2 to 4wd conversion. Its not a direct bolt on.

My information comes from a reliable SAE source. That is from water pump to flywheel. No starter or accessories installed.

You've lost credibility with that one. The Toyota F and later 2F is NOT a Ford 300-6!! It is designed after the Chevrolet 235 6 cylinder. Toyota used the 235 design under license and patterned the F from it because of the proven track record and reliability of the Stovebolt 6.

Jason

 

RC I never knew for sure the yota was legally patterened after the chevy, I always thought it might have just been copied.
Back in the 70s kamatsu copied a lot of cat parts on their dozers, I even had 3 jap engineers spend a couple hours taking the measurements of an angle blade on a pipeline dozer I had on the job.

 

Yeah. As I understand it, many parts are close to being interchangeable, but just off because of the metric/ standard difference.
For example, converting to a GM HEI distributor with the stock gear. It will physically drop in and run, but will eventually ruin the cam drive gear.

Jason

 

I know I owned a landcruiser in the early 80s and had a 6 cylinder chevy in an old 1 ton at the same time, It looked like everything would just swap but not quite.

 

That is some interesting stuff...
I am pretty sure the F100 4x4 is quite a different frame than the F250( I have both and have spent lots of time looking at them over the years. Enough said. I have done some research on engine weights:
385(big block) 720lbs
FE (360, 390, etc) 625lbs
6.9l(diesel) 840lbs
weights are approximate
I have also done some research on power for the 86 6.9
170 hp @3300
338 ft/lb torque @1400
Just a side note: I was recently working on a bus with an early 5.9 cummins in it, It was rated at only 160hp(no idea on torque), and I was supposed to put an engine out of a 90s dodge pickup in it,but it was only a 140hp, so we did not use it. My point is, I was surprised to see how comparable the 6.9 and the 5.9 cummins are in stock trim.
Someone asked about the tranny out of the 86, I do still have it, I also have a 4spd out of a 75 F250 (NP435, I believe)
I won't be changing any of my running gear if I can avoid it. I realize that I could use beefier parts, but my idea is geared toward having a diesel in a lighter truck. I would swap the engine into my 78 F250 4wd if I wanted it in a 3/4 ton. Another company I know of ran a 6.2 and a 6.5 naturally aspirated as well as turboed in half ton trucks with fair success. I have driven many military cucv (blazers) in half ton trim and they held up pretty good. I was surprised at how big a following the 6.9 actually has. Being a diesel tech, all I have ever heard about them is how poorly they perform.
I have never had much experience with the pre-powerstroke version of the navistar engines. I would like some input from some of you who know more about them, what is good or bad about them,etc.

 

By the way, I will post info on this project as soon as I get the 86 out of the snow bank it has been buried in all winter. I was also wondering if anyone else out there has done this kind of swap. I know there is quite a bit of info on cummins 4bt and 5.9 swaps, I haven't as yet found much on the navistar.

 

There are a few bronco's with the 6.9/7.7 in them.

I don't know anyone personally with a 6.9 in a halfton, but it has been done. There used to be someone on oilburners.
These motors get a bad rap, you will find that they perform pretty good with just a couple of small ipprovements (intake and ehxaust) they are not a chipped powerstroke,However add a turbo and you are above a stock first gen stroke.
They are extremely reliable and stupid simple to work on, I really think you will be suprised, and like it in a 1/2 ton.

 

I spent much of the day getting the old diesel started, then buried my backhoe yanking it out of the snow( the rear half was still buried, plus we got about 5 more inches of wet snow yesterday). At any rate, I got the 6.9 started, it sounds really good. Also I noticed it still uses a vacuum brake booster with a vacuum pump on the engine so I won't need to plumb in a hydra-boost. I can see I will need to use the hydraulic clutch setup, hopefully it won't be too hard to adapt onto my 70. I also did some checking and found that the ball joints and front wheel bearings on my swapped in 77 dana 44 are the same part numbers as the 3300 lb F250 dana 44. I have checked on some 2 inch lift springs to level it all out, but will hold off on that until I see how it sits with the extra weight on the front. If I can get everything out of the mud, I hope to start pulling engines in the next week. Can anyone tell me if I can hook an aftermarket tach to the 6.9? It has a factory electric tach in the dash of the donor truck and I would guess the sensor is in the top of the injector pump gear housing. I was also wondering if the trans input shaft on my NP435 will mesh with the clutch on the 6.9.

 

I think it was wreckinball that used an aftermarket tach.

The 435 fits like it was made for it, I prefer them myself, I like the granny gear.

 

I do get a kick out of the "It was patterned off of this engine" statements.

True I guess it could be patterened off of a gasoline engine, there were 8 cylinder gasoline engines before there were 8 cylinder diesels, so the fact it has 8 cylinders was surely copied from a gasoline engine.
Both also have a cam, crank, pistons, valves, push rods and oil pumps so I am sure that was copied as well.

I am thinking more along the lines of development of the 6.9 had to start in the late 70's for it to be introduced in the 83 truck.
So the block looks like blocks from the 70's did with the manufacturing processes they were using at that time.

If you look at a 70's 302 and a modern 5 liter Ford engine, the same engine, how many parts will actually interchange?