Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Super Duty/Heavy Duty > Large Truck
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


Large Truck My truck is bigger than yours. The forum for 2+ ton trucks (all years), COE's, Louisville's, Big-Job's etc.

Welcome to Ford-Trucks Forums!
Welcome to Ford-Trucks.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Ford-Trucks Forums community today!





 
Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 02-21-2010, 03:14 PM
Neil_E.'s Avatar
Neil_E. Neil_E. is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 251
Neil_E. is starting off with a positive reputation.
Split-rim wheels vs Budd wheels

I have thought about looking for an older L7000 and of course most have split-rim wheels. Why? Are there advantages to split-rim wheels? The rim/tire assembly should be lighter and easier to handle than a Budd rim, but also has the disadvantage of needing to run tubes. Do the front and rear hub assemblies need to be replaced when switching over to Budd rims? Educate me please.
__________________
09 F250 4x4 XLT CC 5.4 SWB ZF6 Manual 3.73LS Canada
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-21-2010, 06:36 PM
rb48f6's Avatar
rb48f6 rb48f6 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SE / NWL MI
Posts: 410
rb48f6 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Are you talking about Dayton wheels vs Budd wheels? Or are you talking about lock ring / multi-piece wheels ( not split rim wheels) vs tubeless Budd style rims. Split rims actually are two wheel halfs, front and back if you will, that join in the center of the assembly. Lock ring or multi-piece rims, just the outside edge / lip of the wheel is removeable. Split rims, also known as widow makers, were real common on the 48-52 F4-F6's. They were also used on some subsequent years. There are a variety of posts and pictures on the subject of true split rims. Daytons have a large cast part in the center that stays fixed to the truck and then just the rim and tire assembly that are clamped / bolted on with 5 or 6 attachment points. Here's a pic of a Dayton type wheel / rim:
Attached Images
 
__________________
Bob
'48 F6.5; 391FT, 5x3, 2spd (progress - stalled), '77 F750 CC
'11 F150 5.0L FX4 157 Supercrew (on order), '09 Fusion, '62 641, '01 FLHTCUI, '10 FLHTK
Prev: '00 F250 SC 7.3 4x, '92 F350 CC 7.3 4x, '89 F250 4x, '86 Rngr 4x, '68 Bronco 4x
FTE Albums:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/members/rb48f6-416521-albums.htm
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-21-2010, 07:34 PM
Neil_E.'s Avatar
Neil_E. Neil_E. is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 251
Neil_E. is starting off with a positive reputation.
I have been reading up a bit on the different styles. So yes I am wondering how a Dayton compares to a Budd. It looks like converting from Dayton to Budd will be expensive. I thought using tubeless tires would be the way to go.
__________________
09 F250 4x4 XLT CC 5.4 SWB ZF6 Manual 3.73LS Canada
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-22-2010, 12:30 AM
c.f.moore c.f.moore is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 467
c.f.moore is starting off with a positive reputation.
I worked in a tire shop in the late 60's. I repaired/replaced tires on split/suicide rims, solid ring, split ring, and tubeless tire rims.

Dayton wheels are a pain the a$$. With no center in the wheel, it's difficult to change/remove/repair tires. When mounting on the truck, you have to be very careful about fitting and attaching the bolts, or the wheel/tire will wobble. Our shop had an account with a construction company, that ran a fleet of Mack dump trucks with Dayton (also known as California wheels) wheels. I repaired at least 2 of their tires every day.

I swore I'd never own a truck with the Dayton style rims.

Tubeless budd style rims are the only way to go. The tires run cooler and you don't have to mess with tubes. When was the last time you saw tube type tires on cars or smaller trucks. Most semi's are running tubeless tires these days.

Good luck
__________________
'05 F350 SC SRW lgbox 4x4 6.0 auto
Bilstein shocks, Toyo AT's
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-22-2010, 08:24 AM
truckdog62563's Avatar
truckdog62563 truckdog62563 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 5,987
truckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to behold
I'm not exactly sure I follow what you're trying to accomplish, but here goes. It sounds like your truck now has Dayton style wheels with "demountable" outer rims, and you are wanting to convert it from tube type (multi-part) 20" rims to tubeless 22.5" (one piece) rims. If I've got that right, this is easily done. Any 20" Dayton wheel/hub will accept a 22.5" tubeless outer rim because of the "drop center" design of the tubeless rim. Here's a cross section comparison of the tube type rim (called a 5° design) next to a tubeless (called a 15° design).

Click the image to open in full size.

If this is your goal, any good big truck tire shop can sell you new outer rims and tires to accomplish this swap. And regarding c.f.moore's point about these being a p.i.t.a., he's right. But while many guys swear "at" Daytons, others swear "by" them. It just depends on your perspective.

If your truck now has Daytons and you are wanting to convert to disc wheels, sometimes called Budd style, this is a much bigger deal. You would have to find a donor truck to swap out hubs, then depending on bolt pattern and whether they are "hub piloted" or "stud piloted", deal with finding replacement wheels. Complicating this is the fact that some older truck bolt patterns are NLA. Finding some in a tubeless size can be a real chore.

In his above posting Bob mentions the "widow maker" risks associated with Budd style wheels. I doubt that you've got them, but here's a picture of one in case you do to help you know what you're dealing with. If I've missed something, please say. Stu

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
Stu McMillan
'52 F-3 Marmon-Herrington 6R32-4 - in progress
'51 R3-4; '51 LD7-4 Ranger; '50 R3-4 - pending projects
'51 F-3; '51 F-3; '52 R32-4, '53 6M254 -parts/donors
'97 F-250 4WD/460/ZF5 - trailer duty
'03 E-450 Fun Mover; '07 E-350 parts hauler; '13 E-350 Lab taxi
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-22-2010, 10:44 AM
Neil_E.'s Avatar
Neil_E. Neil_E. is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 251
Neil_E. is starting off with a positive reputation.
Great answers, thanks. I don't have a large truck at present, but after seeing what "not me officer" purchased, I've wondered what I would look for in an older vehicle. Just thinking along the lines of a homemade RV on an older 2 to 5 ton fire apparatus chassis.

I suppose design evolution might have created a Dayton style wheel assembly that had a one piece rim to accept tubeless tires. A change in the hubs to allow clamping a rim with a drop center might have been possible, but I see now why the Budd style took over.

For 50-55mph farm trucks the Dayton is fine. For higher expressway speeds of 65-70mph the Budd would be safer than using tubes.

This is one nice piece of equipment:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/69...0-4-x-4-a.html
__________________
09 F250 4x4 XLT CC 5.4 SWB ZF6 Manual 3.73LS Canada
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-22-2010, 01:08 PM
truckdog62563's Avatar
truckdog62563 truckdog62563 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 5,987
truckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to behold
Either style, Budd or Dayton, can be tube type or tubeless. Tube type wheels will be even sizes like the 20", and tubeless will be half sizes like the 22.5". The advantage of a Dayton is that you can swap just the outer rim to go from tube to tubeless while with a Budd you have to find a whole new wheel. To me the thing that has made the Budd style more common today is the migration to aluminum, and the development of different wheel designs for steer and drive axles.
__________________
Stu McMillan
'52 F-3 Marmon-Herrington 6R32-4 - in progress
'51 R3-4; '51 LD7-4 Ranger; '50 R3-4 - pending projects
'51 F-3; '51 F-3; '52 R32-4, '53 6M254 -parts/donors
'97 F-250 4WD/460/ZF5 - trailer duty
'03 E-450 Fun Mover; '07 E-350 parts hauler; '13 E-350 Lab taxi
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-22-2010, 02:48 PM
Neil_E.'s Avatar
Neil_E. Neil_E. is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 251
Neil_E. is starting off with a positive reputation.
Thanks for the great info. Really clears things up.

http://www.accuridewheels.com/completeversion.pdf

On page 20 of the catalog (22 pdf) it shows the tubeless rims for spoke wheels. That's a real nice way to upgrade to tubeless tires.

Page 26 (28 pdf) shows a different type with unique rims for front and rear.
__________________
09 F250 4x4 XLT CC 5.4 SWB ZF6 Manual 3.73LS Canada
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-22-2010, 03:00 PM
F6Guy F6Guy is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 833
F6Guy is starting off with a positive reputation.
one reason daytons where popular is most of the trailers ran them, so by using them on the truck too the driver had a common spare. some companys even made an adapter to use a dayton rim on a lugged budd style hub.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-22-2010, 06:03 PM
truckdog62563's Avatar
truckdog62563 truckdog62563 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 5,987
truckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by F6Guy View Post
some companys even made an adapter to use a dayton rim on a lugged budd style hub.
They were made by Dayton, and boy would I love to find a set to adapt a demountable rim to the old 5 lug x 8" circle bolt pattern. The adapters were fairly common on the F-7/F-8s and on newer big trucks that used the 8 lug x 10" bolt pattern that was unique to Ford. One of the Chevy guys over on the Stovebolt site searched a long time and found a set for his old 10 lug x 7.25" bolt circle. Here's a pic of one on a F-7 fire truck, and a chart from the 1960s that shows the various sizes and bolt patterns that were available. Stu
Attached Images
  
__________________
Stu McMillan
'52 F-3 Marmon-Herrington 6R32-4 - in progress
'51 R3-4; '51 LD7-4 Ranger; '50 R3-4 - pending projects
'51 F-3; '51 F-3; '52 R32-4, '53 6M254 -parts/donors
'97 F-250 4WD/460/ZF5 - trailer duty
'03 E-450 Fun Mover; '07 E-350 parts hauler; '13 E-350 Lab taxi
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-22-2010, 06:39 PM
Neil_E.'s Avatar
Neil_E. Neil_E. is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 251
Neil_E. is starting off with a positive reputation.
Very interesting. The Dayton conversion looks quite different than your photo. Is this because the catalog picture is for a rear and your photo is of a front? Your front has the center of the hub outboard of the clamp studs whereas the catalog appears to show it inboard.

Never having seen them apart, how are rear duals (dayton type) mounted? The outer rim can be unclamped easily, but does the outer hub have to be removed in order to unclamp/remove the inner rim?
__________________
09 F250 4x4 XLT CC 5.4 SWB ZF6 Manual 3.73LS Canada
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-22-2010, 07:00 PM
rbaker6336's Avatar
rbaker6336 rbaker6336 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Blairsville,Ga
Posts: 7,191
rbaker6336 is a splendid one to beholdrbaker6336 is a splendid one to beholdrbaker6336 is a splendid one to beholdrbaker6336 is a splendid one to beholdrbaker6336 is a splendid one to beholdrbaker6336 is a splendid one to beholdrbaker6336 is a splendid one to behold
There is no saftey difference between Budd and Dayton wheels and tire are just as easy to change on one or the other
The big difference is cost to truck builders and fleet owners
With budd wheels you an fit 19.5, 22.5 or 24.5 on the same hub which would take 3 with dayton hubs
__________________
Ray
2000 F-350 2WD,DRW Auto, PSD,
DP Tuner,40 Tow 80E,Wicked Wheel 4" Exhaust ,AIS intake, Guages,6.0 Trans cooler to install, DooDad???=(dfuser ram air)
'98 Grand Cherokee, '86 F-150 SB Lariat 4x4 bought new (needs new home)
PAA #35
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-22-2010, 07:28 PM
truckdog62563's Avatar
truckdog62563 truckdog62563 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 5,987
truckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to beholdtruckdog62563 is a splendid one to behold
Yes, the red adapter is a front, and the one pictured in the Dayton chart is a rear.

The Dayton wheel spokes have inner stops that control the depth of the inner wheel. In the middle goes a spacer, then the outer wheel is bolted in place. Go to your Accuride catalog posting and look at the demountable section. Page 51 has a good diagram (page 53 of the pdf). Ray is right, there is no safety difference one versus the other. Stu
__________________
Stu McMillan
'52 F-3 Marmon-Herrington 6R32-4 - in progress
'51 R3-4; '51 LD7-4 Ranger; '50 R3-4 - pending projects
'51 F-3; '51 F-3; '52 R32-4, '53 6M254 -parts/donors
'97 F-250 4WD/460/ZF5 - trailer duty
'03 E-450 Fun Mover; '07 E-350 parts hauler; '13 E-350 Lab taxi
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-22-2010, 08:16 PM
Neil_E.'s Avatar
Neil_E. Neil_E. is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 251
Neil_E. is starting off with a positive reputation.
Top notch info, thanks for making it clear.
__________________
09 F250 4x4 XLT CC 5.4 SWB ZF6 Manual 3.73LS Canada
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-24-2010, 11:39 AM
rb48f6's Avatar
rb48f6 rb48f6 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SE / NWL MI
Posts: 410
rb48f6 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Great info on the Dayton conversion Stu. The wheel in your pic looks similar to some Coleman 4x conversions I've seen.
__________________
Bob
'48 F6.5; 391FT, 5x3, 2spd (progress - stalled), '77 F750 CC
'11 F150 5.0L FX4 157 Supercrew (on order), '09 Fusion, '62 641, '01 FLHTCUI, '10 FLHTK
Prev: '00 F250 SC 7.3 4x, '92 F350 CC 7.3 4x, '89 F250 4x, '86 Rngr 4x, '68 Bronco 4x
FTE Albums:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/album.php?u=416521
Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 11:39 AM
 
 
 
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB: One 16" 8-lug split-rim (split ring wheel) for 1978 F250 twinzilla WTB - Parts & other 11 02-23-2014 03:12 AM
Budd wheels DagoF2 1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks 2 09-28-2009 09:45 AM
1963 Ford F350 fravon 1961 - 1966 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks 4 12-28-2005 03:41 PM
17" split-rim replacement KeyLimeExpress 1961 - 1966 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks 0 02-23-2004 05:35 PM
?????? oleblue70 1967 - 1972 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks 7 12-06-1999 11:04 AM


Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Super Duty/Heavy Duty > Large Truck

Tags
725, aftermarket, bolt, budd, pattern, rim, rims, rimwheels, split, style, suicide, tires, truck, tube, tubeless, wheel, wheels

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. FordŽ is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup