Large TruckMy truck is bigger than yours. The forum for 2+ ton trucks (all years), COE's, Louisville's, Big-Job's etc.
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I have thought about looking for an older L7000 and of course most have split-rim wheels. Why? Are there advantages to split-rim wheels? The rim/tire assembly should be lighter and easier to handle than a Budd rim, but also has the disadvantage of needing to run tubes. Do the front and rear hub assemblies need to be replaced when switching over to Budd rims? Educate me please.
Are you talking about Dayton wheels vs Budd wheels? Or are you talking about lock ring / multi-piece wheels ( not split rim wheels) vs tubeless Budd style rims. Split rims actually are two wheel halfs, front and back if you will, that join in the center of the assembly. Lock ring or multi-piece rims, just the outside edge / lip of the wheel is removeable. Split rims, also known as widow makers, were real common on the 48-52 F4-F6's. They were also used on some subsequent years. There are a variety of posts and pictures on the subject of true split rims. Daytons have a large cast part in the center that stays fixed to the truck and then just the rim and tire assembly that are clamped / bolted on with 5 or 6 attachment points. Here's a pic of a Dayton type wheel / rim:
I have been reading up a bit on the different styles. So yes I am wondering how a Dayton compares to a Budd. It looks like converting from Dayton to Budd will be expensive. I thought using tubeless tires would be the way to go.
I worked in a tire shop in the late 60's. I repaired/replaced tires on split/suicide rims, solid ring, split ring, and tubeless tire rims.
Dayton wheels are a pain the a$$. With no center in the wheel, it's difficult to change/remove/repair tires. When mounting on the truck, you have to be very careful about fitting and attaching the bolts, or the wheel/tire will wobble. Our shop had an account with a construction company, that ran a fleet of Mack dump trucks with Dayton (also known as California wheels) wheels. I repaired at least 2 of their tires every day.
I swore I'd never own a truck with the Dayton style rims.
Tubeless budd style rims are the only way to go. The tires run cooler and you don't have to mess with tubes. When was the last time you saw tube type tires on cars or smaller trucks. Most semi's are running tubeless tires these days.
I'm not exactly sure I follow what you're trying to accomplish, but here goes. It sounds like your truck now has Dayton style wheels with "demountable" outer rims, and you are wanting to convert it from tube type (multi-part) 20" rims to tubeless 22.5" (one piece) rims. If I've got that right, this is easily done. Any 20" Dayton wheel/hub will accept a 22.5" tubeless outer rim because of the "drop center" design of the tubeless rim. Here's a cross section comparison of the tube type rim (called a 5° design) next to a tubeless (called a 15° design).
If this is your goal, any good big truck tire shop can sell you new outer rims and tires to accomplish this swap. And regarding c.f.moore's point about these being a p.i.t.a., he's right. But while many guys swear "at" Daytons, others swear "by" them. It just depends on your perspective.
If your truck now has Daytons and you are wanting to convert to disc wheels, sometimes called Budd style, this is a much bigger deal. You would have to find a donor truck to swap out hubs, then depending on bolt pattern and whether they are "hub piloted" or "stud piloted", deal with finding replacement wheels. Complicating this is the fact that some older truck bolt patterns are NLA. Finding some in a tubeless size can be a real chore.
In his above posting Bob mentions the "widow maker" risks associated with Budd style wheels. I doubt that you've got them, but here's a picture of one in case you do to help you know what you're dealing with. If I've missed something, please say. Stu
Great answers, thanks. I don't have a large truck at present, but after seeing what "not me officer" purchased, I've wondered what I would look for in an older vehicle. Just thinking along the lines of a homemade RV on an older 2 to 5 ton fire apparatus chassis.
I suppose design evolution might have created a Dayton style wheel assembly that had a one piece rim to accept tubeless tires. A change in the hubs to allow clamping a rim with a drop center might have been possible, but I see now why the Budd style took over.
For 50-55mph farm trucks the Dayton is fine. For higher expressway speeds of 65-70mph the Budd would be safer than using tubes.
Either style, Budd or Dayton, can be tube type or tubeless. Tube type wheels will be even sizes like the 20", and tubeless will be half sizes like the 22.5". The advantage of a Dayton is that you can swap just the outer rim to go from tube to tubeless while with a Budd you have to find a whole new wheel. To me the thing that has made the Budd style more common today is the migration to aluminum, and the development of different wheel designs for steer and drive axles.
one reason daytons where popular is most of the trailers ran them, so by using them on the truck too the driver had a common spare. some companys even made an adapter to use a dayton rim on a lugged budd style hub.
some companys even made an adapter to use a dayton rim on a lugged budd style hub.
They were made by Dayton, and boy would I love to find a set to adapt a demountable rim to the old 5 lug x 8" circle bolt pattern. The adapters were fairly common on the F-7/F-8s and on newer big trucks that used the 8 lug x 10" bolt pattern that was unique to Ford. One of the Chevy guys over on the Stovebolt site searched a long time and found a set for his old 10 lug x 7.25" bolt circle. Here's a pic of one on a F-7 fire truck, and a chart from the 1960s that shows the various sizes and bolt patterns that were available. Stu
Very interesting. The Dayton conversion looks quite different than your photo. Is this because the catalog picture is for a rear and your photo is of a front? Your front has the center of the hub outboard of the clamp studs whereas the catalog appears to show it inboard.
Never having seen them apart, how are rear duals (dayton type) mounted? The outer rim can be unclamped easily, but does the outer hub have to be removed in order to unclamp/remove the inner rim?
There is no saftey difference between Budd and Dayton wheels and tire are just as easy to change on one or the other
The big difference is cost to truck builders and fleet owners
With budd wheels you an fit 19.5, 22.5 or 24.5 on the same hub which would take 3 with dayton hubs
2000 F-350 2WD,DRW Auto, PSD,
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'98 Grand Cherokee, '86 F-150 SB Lariat 4x4 bought new (needs new home)
Yes, the red adapter is a front, and the one pictured in the Dayton chart is a rear.
The Dayton wheel spokes have inner stops that control the depth of the inner wheel. In the middle goes a spacer, then the outer wheel is bolted in place. Go to your Accuride catalog posting and look at the demountable section. Page 51 has a good diagram (page 53 of the pdf). Ray is right, there is no safety difference one versus the other. Stu
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