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Old 02-16-2010, 11:52 PM
mikeberman04 mikeberman04 is offline
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Air pump (and all EGR stuff) removal on 5.8....

I removed all the EGR crap (replaced with fake sensor, which works great by the way) and want to remove the air pump as well. has anyone else done this, if so- what belt # did you use? i figure this will save me lots of time rather than sitting outside of napa switching belts for an hour- thanks
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Old 02-17-2010, 12:33 PM
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well you can get the smog pump eliminator bracket from a 5.0 and bolt it in place then belt size wont matter. otherwise you can take a piece of rope/string and route it bypassing the smog pump and then measure and use that as reference at parts store. Or you can search on here, i am sure its been mentioned. remember you will have to remove the rest of the plumbing and plug the holes in the back of the heads.
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Old 02-17-2010, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeberman04 View Post
I removed all the EGR crap (replaced with fake sensor, which works great by the way) and want to remove the air pump as well. has anyone else done this, if so- what belt # did you use? i figure this will save me lots of time rather than sitting outside of napa switching belts for an hour- thanks
Just one question... if you can get a phony EVP sensor, how do you fool the O2 sensor when the EGR is supposed to be operating? O2 levels will still be off and the O2 sensor will tell the ECM to compensate. How do you get around that?
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:35 PM
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Custom chip?
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Old 02-17-2010, 10:48 PM
mikeberman04 mikeberman04 is offline
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damn.....that is a good question, haha. i still got the o2 in there, haven't got any codes and she still spins like a top- makes me wonder if maybe i should get a fake o2 as well to get something more out of her....?
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Old 02-17-2010, 10:57 PM
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It's the computer that controls everything on an EFI system.. not the sensors. And no you don't want to remove the O2 sensor.. that will just make the computer run open loop all the time and fuel milage will suck.
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Old 02-17-2010, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conanski View Post
It's the computer that controls everything on an EFI system.. not the sensors. And no you don't want to remove the O2 sensor.. that will just make the computer run open loop all the time and fuel milage will suck.
careful, you might give someone another great idea
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Old 02-17-2010, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Conanski View Post
It's the computer that controls everything on an EFI system.. not the sensors. And no you don't want to remove the O2 sensor.. that will just make the computer run open loop all the time and fuel milage will suck.

Exactly my point. The computer takes information and uses the control devices to control the engine. Removing just one sensor or control device won't magically make the system work without issue. It may appear to... but I would be interested to know what long-term effects mikeberman04's setup will have on things like spark plugs, fuel economy, and valve train.
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:13 AM
mikeberman04 mikeberman04 is offline
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i've had the fake sensor with real o2 sensor in for about 2 years- plugs have come out clean every time, mileage roughly about the same (a few times where it was slightly better) than the old motor before rebuild and all the egr crap was on and hooked up, and valvetrain 'seems' to be alright thus far- theres never been any chatter
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greystreak92 View Post
Exactly my point. The computer takes information and uses the control devices to control the engine. Removing just one sensor or control device won't magically make the system work without issue. It may appear to... but I would be interested to know what long-term effects mikeberman04's setup will have on things like spark plugs, fuel economy, and valve train.
OK that I can tell you. The computer simply adds a little bit more timing when the EGR valve is open, and I mean a little bit.. not even enough to notice at the seat of the pants dyno. If the valve doesn't open the computer doesn't change anything so engine operation isn't affected at all. The temperature sensors and the O2 have a much larger impact, if either one of these are removed/disconnected/defeated in any way the computer defaults to open loop and uses pre programmed tables for fuel and spark. These tables are intentionally setup to run the motor rich and to be conservative on timing to minimize the potential of damage to the motor, but as a result power and milage will be down from what it could be. For example on my truck the instantaneous fuel milage at a 50mph cruise drops from close to 20mpg to 12mpg when open loop is triggered, the motor otherwise runs very well so there are no glaringly obvious indications something isn't right.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:37 AM
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I am going to hijack here a little bit.I am putting together a 5.0 for my 96 bronco.The air pump removed,tube plugged,selenoids unplugged.Also installed gt40 intake from explorer.No throttle body yet.Do I need to install egr?Manifold is internal egr.I am going to have 2 o2 sensors on y pipe and 1 after bazani cat.Am I going to have problems?No phony evp.I read on RJM that I needed a custom chip to make this work.
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIKE View Post
I am going to hijack here a little bit.I am putting together a 5.0 for my 96 bronco.The air pump removed,tube plugged,selenoids unplugged.Also installed gt40 intake from explorer.No throttle body yet.Do I need to install egr?Manifold is internal egr.I am going to have 2 o2 sensors on y pipe and 1 after bazani cat.Am I going to have problems?No phony evp.I read on RJM that I needed a custom chip to make this work.
A little advice.. completely remove the air tubes and valves that were attached to the air pump and plug the heads with 5/8x1" coarse bolts with copper washers, this will prevent the possibility of air leaks upstream of the main O2 sensors which is a bad thing. Also remove the vacuum lines attached to the TAB and TAD solenoids but leave them electrically plugged in.

EGR on that motor was most likely the DPFE version, so even with a functional valve on the intake the computer will set a code because there is nowhere to connect the differential pressure sensor. So the only way around this is to disable EGR function with a tuner.. unless there are EGR valves with a DPFE built-in, if so I'm not aware of it.
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1990 5.0HO AOD XLT X-Cab F150 3.55LS, 1994 3.0L 5-sp x-cab Ranger 3.45, 2004 3.0L 5-sp X-cab Ranger Edge 4.10, 2004 2.5L 5-spd Subaru Legacy
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conanski View Post
A little advice.. completely remove the air tubes and valves that were attached to the air pump and plug the heads with 5/8x1" coarse bolts with copper washers, this will prevent the possibility of air leaks upstream of the main O2 sensors which is a bad thing. Also remove the vacuum lines attached to the TAB and TAD solenoids but leave them electrically plugged in.

EGR on that motor was most likely the DPFE version, so even with a functional valve on the intake the computer will set a code because there is nowhere to connect the differential pressure sensor. So the only way around this is to disable EGR function with a tuner.. unless there are EGR valves with a DPFE built-in, if so I'm not aware of it.
Thankyou I have already removed and pluged the airtubes and vales.I will plug the vacuum lines when I reassemble,intake is off now.Can the tab tad selinoids be fooled?Thanks
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:53 PM
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yes they can with a custom tune. that is the only nice part about obd-II
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:17 PM
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A 910 length belt will fit on a 351 without any elimator kit. It's just a couple inches shorter. A very slight improvement in millage can be expected.
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:17 PM
 
 
 
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