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Old 02-10-2010, 04:15 PM
Tom D Tom D is offline
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Bad Batch

I guess it happens from time to time. I think it was several things that caused it.
1. I failed to maintain 140 deg while mixing (it was exceptionally cold out)
2. I reused some recovered methanol and think I used too much of a ratio to new methanol. (5 gal recovered/ 21/2 gal new).

The bio looked like brown mud what should have been black glycerin.
I plan to mix it again. Should I use the same amount of methanol and KOH or should I use a reduced amount because I did it once already?
I am mixing 40 gallons.
Thanks
Tom D
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:33 AM
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TurnerBioDiesel TurnerBioDiesel is offline
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The reaction will still happen at liwer temps. It will just need longer mixing time. I have processed Fuel at 120 F. How long did you mix for. With recoved methanol you should use 30% versus 20% or 22% like some people. When you recoverd the methanol did you keep the temp under 212 F to reduce water. If you still have the same oil in a container take another titration of it just to make sure you did it right. I made Glop before that I could not fix. We just burnt it in our furnace. You may want to put it in a Barrel and let it settle for a wile.
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Old 02-13-2010, 03:35 PM
Tom D Tom D is offline
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Originally Posted by TurnerBioDiesel View Post
The reaction will still happen at liwer temps. It will just need longer mixing time. I have processed Fuel at 120 F. How long did you mix for. With recoved methanol you should use 30% versus 20% or 22% like some people. When you recoverd the methanol did you keep the temp under 212 F to reduce water. If you still have the same oil in a container take another titration of it just to make sure you did it right. I made Glop before that I could not fix. We just burnt it in our furnace. You may want to put it in a Barrel and let it settle for a wile.
I mixed for a little over 1 hour. I think the problem was I used too much recovered methanol (5 gal recovered/ 21/2 gal new) Yes I recovered methanol at 190 deg.
I will titrate what I have and see what I get. My question is, after I titrate and determine how much KOH I need, do I still have to use the same amount of methanol? (7 1/2 gal) There should be SOME methanol in the mix right now even though some of it is not virgin. I don't know what will happen if I use too much methanol.
Thanks Tom
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Old 02-13-2010, 04:44 PM
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Try using 1 gallon.
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Old 02-14-2010, 01:48 PM
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Curious as to what happens, keep us inform.
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Old 02-14-2010, 03:14 PM
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Here is a more acurate way. From what ive been reading is You need 1.4 grams koh to 35 ml methanol per litre of un washed fuel. Or 1.4 grams of koh to 50 ml of methanol to washed and dryed fuel. Heat the unreacted fuel up to 130f and add methoxide. Mix again for 1-2 hours. That should be it. Let us know
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:23 PM
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Thanks to all for your input. I re-ran the mix today. I used 1 gal of new methanol and 1/2 lb of KOH mixed at 140 deg F for one hour and it came out fine. These instructions were given to me by Fabman after I called him. I was lucky enough to have a "open mixer" so I could watch the mix and add more KOH if need be.
According to Fabman, the recovered methanol I used had water in it and caused the batch an incomplete transesterfication. "After recovering methanol from glycerin, it is always best to heat the methanol to approx 195F and run through a condenser to burn off the water."
Tom
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom D View Post
Thanks to all for your input. I re-ran the mix today. I used 1 gal of new methanol and 1/2 lb of KOH mixed at 140 deg F for one hour and it came out fine. These instructions were given to me by Fabman after I called him. I was lucky enough to have a "open mixer" so I could watch the mix and add more KOH if need be.
According to Fabman, the recovered methanol I used had water in it and caused the batch an incomplete transesterfication.


"After recovering methanol from glycerin, it is always best to heat the methanol to approx 195F and run through a condenser to burn off the water."

Not what I said Tom........
"After recovering Methanol from Glycerol, it is always best to heat the Methanol to 150-160 F and rerun through your condenser to Purify the Methanol.............




Tom
Glad it worked out Tom. I figured after our conversation yesterday that you would be able to save the batch. Way to go!
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:13 PM
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Glad it worked out Tom. I figured after our conversation yesterday that you would be able to save the batch. Way to go!
Sorry about the misquote Don. You know how it is with us old farts. We retain half of what we hear. Glad you cleared that up. Thanks for getting me through the mishap
Regards Tom
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Old 02-22-2010, 04:37 PM
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Sorry about the misquote Don. You know how it is with us old farts. We retain half of what we hear. Glad you cleared that up. Thanks for getting me through the mishap
Regards Tom
OK Don. I spoke too soon. When I added the 1/2 lb of KOH, I saw the mix turn black so I mixed for 1 hour at 140F and pumped to separater tank. Today I went down to drain off the glycerin and it was not black. I took some of the mix and titrated it. I came out with 1/2 ml of titrating fluid. I added that number to 7.8 (KOH) and ended up with 8.3 gr per liter. So for 40 gal (151.4 liters) that comes out to 1256.7 gr which is 2.763 pounds of KOH. Hell..That's almost the same amount I use with a 1st time batch. What gives? Sounds like I need to start over with this batch. Since I am using so much KOH, I should use at least 5 gal of NEW methanol, don't you think? Sure hope I can save this. It's harder to get rid of this than to salvage it.
Tom
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Old 02-22-2010, 04:46 PM
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TurnerBioDiesel TurnerBioDiesel is offline
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Here is a more acurate way. From what ive been reading is You need 1.4 grams koh to 35 ml methanol per litre of un washed fuel. Or 1.4 grams of koh to 50 ml of methanol to washed and dryed fuel. Heat the unreacted fuel up to 130f and add methoxide. Mix again for 1-2 hours. That should be it. Let us know

This is what I was Told. Now that you tried to fix it already I dont know.
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Old 02-22-2010, 04:46 PM
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