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  #1  
Old 02-09-2010, 03:48 PM
thomas_e102 thomas_e102 is offline
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2005 F250 5.4 Cam Phasers HELP !!!!

Hello i just got a used 05 F250 4X4 with a 5.4 V8. I know there is alot on this site about Cam phaser but I have a few question I am not sure about. When I got this truck used it had a light ticking noise coming from under the hood. The dealer said he would warranty the lifters for 30 days. The truck has 98,000 miles and I drove it home about 170 miles. It ran great. I got home and the next day took it to get a oil change. After the oil change it sounded like a diesel. So I got home and found a ford dealer and ran it over to them. They said they think it was bad cam phasers and to not worry about it and they changed the oil again because of the filter they used at the last place I was at.

1st question is there any thing to worry about (cam phasers)? Some people say change them because you will damage the motor and some say not waist the money it will not hurt a thing.

2nd question why would I hear it more after the oil change and not after the 170 mile trip home. I am running 5w-20 ford oil and filter. The diesel sound is only happening after the engine warms up (about 15 min drive time) Sound great when cold

3rd Question is I had eng check light come on days later and the code came back as P0174. Does that have anything to do with the Cam Phaser? I know P0174 is O2 sensor bank 1.

4th Do you guys think I have any thing to go after this car dealer ship. Truck was sold as-is with a 30 day on the lifters. The salesman said that could have been the noise we heard at the dealer ship. I spoke with him on the phone about what ford said about the cam phasers and he said that it was not the lifters so he could not help me because of the sold as-is. But we where talking about the noise of the cam phasers. (oil was dirty at the dealer ship)

Any help would be great I just started a small landscape company 2 years ago and wanted to stop beating up my every day driver truck so I got this truck for 10,800.00 and I don't have the money to fix the cam phasers. Thanks and this site is great.
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:39 PM
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I would change the O2 sensor and not worry about the phasers. I had a 05 Mustang with the 4.6L-3V. I replaced one phaser and never heard much of a differance. It ticked like hell and never hurt anything. Doesn't matter what oil you run it's just gonna tick. To answer you question the phasers use oil pressure to "phase" so the oil condition is directly related the noise you're hearing. My brother has a 05 F150 with the 5.4L, he said it has ticked since it was new. It's got over 120K on it now and he's never had a problem with the phasers. Your O2 sensor code is not likely to be related to the phasers.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:11 AM
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I had my local Ford dealership replace the cam phasers on my 2005 F350 5.4L engine at 24K miles. There is a TSB on this issue... Call the dealership and have them replace the cam phasers.

06-4-7***TICKING AND/OR KNOCKING NOISE FROM ENGINE - 4.6L/5.4L 3V
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:20 PM
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It could be that someone before you tried to quiet the tick by using a very thick oil. Change it out to the proper 5w20, and the tick is back like gangbusters.

Probably the used car dealer
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:09 PM
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OMG, There are no LIFTERS in a 3V 5.4L!!!!! You got a bogus 30 day guarantee..

For those who don't know, Usually and most of the time, a overhead Cam engine does not have 'Lifters' They get bad rocker arms or tappets on the end of them. Or Cams that eat them selfs, ( only seen that once.)


I had the p0174 02 sensor code, replace the sensor and drive on, nothing to do with the cam phasers.

I had 108K on a 2004 f150 S-crew. Ticked all the time, except when cold, then it was quiet. No problems with them otherwise.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:03 AM
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They do have "lash adjusters" which are basically "lifters".
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:11 AM
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If you changed the oil and then heard it, I think they had it full of 15w40, that would have kept the phasers from ticking so bad. 5w-20 will tick any time after warmed up.

Krewat, Yes they have lash adjusters, but ,as you probably already know, the sound that those make can be intermittent when they are bad and way different from a traditional lifter. also, lash adjusters will make noise off idle, where the phasers usually don't from 1500 and up rpm. I'm sure the OP is hearing the phasers and the dealer was doing whatever he had to to sell the truck.
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishin76 View Post
Krewat, Yes they have lash adjusters, but ,as you probably already know, the sound that those make can be intermittent when they are bad and way different from a traditional lifter. also, lash adjusters will make noise off idle, where the phasers usually don't from 1500 and up rpm. I'm sure the OP is hearing the phasers and the dealer was doing whatever he had to to sell the truck.
I have heard lash adjusters in other OHC vehicles (not Ford, so far, luckily) that are either bad or air-bound, and they tick. Period.

But to make the blanket statement that "there are no lifters in the 5.4" is misleading.

Low oil pressure can make it worse. Which is also another thing. Who knows what the oil pressure is in this engine? That should be checked before anything else goes on.
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:29 AM
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Sounds like that engine needs a "lashing!" Because it is starting to "tick" me off!
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  #10  
Old 02-14-2010, 10:21 PM
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Talking 5.4

Good one Furian!
IMHO, I would take the truck back to where you bought it from.
They misrepresented the condition of the truck and gave you
a bogus warranty.
Tell them to either fix it at their expense or take it back.
Either way, I would threaten them with the BBB and the use of
the news channels for bad publicity.
I had to do that before, do whatever you have to do to make
them fix it.

I just dont understand why you did not take the truck to get it
checked out by someone reputable to prevent you from fraud.
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:40 AM
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comanchedude

Variable valve timing was pioneered by BMW and has been used by Honda (VTEC) and Toyota (VVT) with great success and very few issues for quite a few years. It is imperative to use the correct weight oil in order for the Cam Phasers to operate properly. Ford, in their infinite wisdom, has seemed to find a way to screw things up again! First, with spark plugs that break off in the head, then with this half-baked VVT system. My truck started making a diesel-like sound when it was still under warranty, so I took it to a Ford dealer where I was advised to use a heaver oil. Against my better judgment, I took their advise. Now that it is out of warranty, my 5.4 3 valve has skipped time, threw shrapnel through the engine and jumped time, hence bending the valves! I have found out that the Ford OE oil pump has an inadequate design that bleeds off too much pressure, hence not supplying enough pressure and volume to properly feed the cam phasers. I just purchased a Jasper engine, which as been re-engineered with a new-design oil pump that corrects this original design flaw. I will keep you posted with my results after I install it.
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Old 09-04-2010, 12:42 PM
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All of these years here and that oil pump problem is news to me.

To the OP. How clean is the engine when you look in the oil fill? I'm willing to bet that the phasers are sludged. Try running a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in your next oil change. If the phaser noise persists, you may want to think about replacing them. (do a search in the 04-08 F150 forum for cam phaser problems).

Motorcraft oil is highly rated. But you never know what the dealer or oil change place is pumping out of a bulk barrel. When I used Motorcraft oil I noticed a lot af valve train noise, especially on my Mazda3. I switched to Pennziol Platinum after doing some research on BITOG. Much less noise with that oil.

Make sure you use a filter with the proper anti drainback valve. Motorcraft FL820S, Wix 51372, Napa Gold 1372 (same as Wix) are the ones I use.
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Old 09-04-2010, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comanchedude View Post
Variable valve timing was pioneered by BMW and has been used by Honda (VTEC) and Toyota (VVT) with great success and very few issues for quite a few years.
Actually incorrect. Variable valve timing was pioneered by Fiat in the 1960s. See US Patent 3,641,988. Alfa Romeo was the first manufacturer to use a variable valve timing system in production cars, in the 1980 Spyder 2.0L

Excluding automotive use, the British used VVT in the Bristol Jupiter radial aircraft engine in the 1920s. Prior to that, it was used in 19th century locomotive steam engines.
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Old 09-05-2010, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comanchedude View Post
Variable valve timing was pioneered by BMW and has been used by Honda (VTEC) and Toyota (VVT) with great success and very few issues for quite a few years. It is imperative to use the correct weight oil in order for the Cam Phasers to operate properly. Ford, in their infinite wisdom, has seemed to find a way to screw things up again! First, with spark plugs that break off in the head, then with this half-baked VVT system. My truck started making a diesel-like sound when it was still under warranty, so I took it to a Ford dealer where I was advised to use a heaver oil. Against my better judgment, I took their advise. Now that it is out of warranty, my 5.4 3 valve has skipped time, threw shrapnel through the engine and jumped time, hence bending the valves! I have found out that the Ford OE oil pump has an inadequate design that bleeds off too much pressure, hence not supplying enough pressure and volume to properly feed the cam phasers. I just purchased a Jasper engine, which as been re-engineered with a new-design oil pump that corrects this original design flaw. I will keep you posted with my results after I install it.
Somebody's been listening to the salesmen at the reman engine company. There is no way to "redesign" the oil pump on the modular unless you're redesigning the lower chain gear, the crankshaft nose,etc. They're probably, if anything, stuffing a spacer into the bypass to jack up the operating pressure of the pump.
There are NO problems of any kind with the OE 3V oil pumps. They're nearly identical to the 2V version, with minor changes to accommodate the larger/thicker high volume gearset that supplies the extra oil volume that actuates the cam phasers.
JL
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