Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Newer Light Duty Trucks > 2007+ Expedition & Navigator
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


2007+ Expedition & Navigator 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator

Welcome to Ford-Trucks Forums!
Welcome to Ford-Trucks.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Ford-Trucks Forums community today!





 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 02-08-2010, 01:26 PM
cecilt cecilt is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 263
cecilt is starting off with a positive reputation.
Air Ride Suspension-Any better than earlier generations?

Has Ford improved the quality of the air ride suspension or is it still problematic like the 1st two generations coupled with expensive repair bills. thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-08-2010, 02:47 PM
berry1234's Avatar
berry1234 berry1234 is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,008
berry1234 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
I think all air ride suffer from the bladders rotting out. If I had one, which I don't, I would clean and coat the rubber bladders with 303 protectant. Same thing goes for the CV boots.
__________________
1978 F250 Lariat 4x2
2008 Expedition Eddie Bauer 4x2


Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-08-2010, 04:33 PM
IQ9 IQ9 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 351
IQ9 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Berry thanks for the reminder....I guess I have been doing what I can see and feel. I have got to get those sprayed with 303. Thanks again for the is and the speaker reminder!
__________________
White Sand 08 Expy EL Limited 4x4 with everything but the power running boards & trip tunes.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-09-2010, 08:26 AM
GlassLeather&Wood GlassLeather&Wood is offline
Junior User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 60
GlassLeather&Wood is starting off with a positive reputation.
The first and second generation Expeditions had three different suspension systems. Which one they had depended largely on whether the vehicle was 4x2 or 4x4.

The standard suspension on 4x2 and 4x4 models was a non-adaptive steel setup with coil springs.

The optional suspension on 4x2 models was a rear electronically-controlled pneumatic adaptive suspension system. It can detect when a trailer is coupled and level the load. It also compensates for occupant and payloads.


The optional suspension on 4x4 models was a front & rear electronically-controlled pneumatic adaptive suspension system. Sometimes also called 4-CLL (4-corner load leveling) This system would rise about a inch or two when the transfer case was placed in 4-low-lock, to provide extra ground clearance. It could also detect when a trailer is coupled and other types of load or road changes. Unfortunately this system was a little too complex and seemed to give the most trouble. Note that there are some examples that did not give trouble.

For the third generation Expedition, there are only two different suspension systems.

A standard non-adaptive steel setup with coil springs, they all get 4-corner monotube shocks.

The optional suspension is a rear electronically-controlled pneumatic adaptive suspension system for both 4x2 and 4x4 versions. It comes with 4-corner monotube shocks. Again, it is "smart" enough that it can detect when a trailer is coupled and other types of load or road changes through electronic wizardry.

Ford dropped the 4-CLL suspension for the third generation Expedition. It is no longer offered, nor has it ever been offered.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-09-2010, 11:22 AM
cecilt cecilt is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 263
cecilt is starting off with a positive reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassLeather&Wood View Post
The first and second generation Expeditions had three different suspension systems. Which one they had depended largely on whether the vehicle was 4x2 or 4x4.

The standard suspension on 4x2 and 4x4 models was a non-adaptive steel setup with coil springs.

The optional suspension on 4x2 models was a rear electronically-controlled pneumatic adaptive suspension system. It can detect when a trailer is coupled and level the load. It also compensates for occupant and payloads.


The optional suspension on 4x4 models was a front & rear electronically-controlled pneumatic adaptive suspension system. Sometimes also called 4-CLL (4-corner load leveling) This system would rise about a inch or two when the transfer case was placed in 4-low-lock, to provide extra ground clearance. It could also detect when a trailer is coupled and other types of load or road changes. Unfortunately this system was a little too complex and seemed to give the most trouble. Note that there are some examples that did not give trouble.

For the third generation Expedition, there are only two different suspension systems.

A standard non-adaptive steel setup with coil springs, they all get 4-corner monotube shocks.

The optional suspension is a rear electronically-controlled pneumatic adaptive suspension system for both 4x2 and 4x4 versions. It comes with 4-corner monotube shocks. Again, it is "smart" enough that it can detect when a trailer is coupled and other types of load or road changes through electronic wizardry.

Ford dropped the 4-CLL suspension for the third generation Expedition. It is no longer offered, nor has it ever been offered.
Your knowledge on the Expedition is impeccable. I can only imagine how a Ford Salesperson would have answered this question

So, in your opionion is the air ride system used in 4x4 for the '07+ Expy better than the older system. I just want to know if I should or should not worry about this as a system that is prone to failure and will be costly. If both of these are still the case I will stay away from Expy's that have this feature but if the newer version is better and more reliable I won't necessarily walk from a deal if the truck has this feature. tks
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-09-2010, 12:16 PM
GlassLeather&Wood GlassLeather&Wood is offline
Junior User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 60
GlassLeather&Wood is starting off with a positive reputation.
Reliability wise, the Expedition as a whole has improved by leaps and bounds. Even the first generations were not known to give excessive problems on average. There will be some "bad applies" in any group of vehicles, no matter what company made it. (a little redundant I know, but bare with me)

Consumer Reports rated the Expedition as well about average in reliability in a recent study of the third generation. Published in a issue of their book.

About the air suspention:
Naturally the more complex a vehicle is, results in a greater chance of some sort of failure sooner or later. If you’re extremely concerned about reliability issues (and that’s a good concern) then I would not recommend you get that option. It will add more complexity to the vehicle.

You must weight out what you need most. If you plan to tow any sort of heavy trailer, then I would recommend that you get the upgraded suspension system.

It is designed to complement the Expedition’s heavy duty trailer tow package, and improve overall towing performance. The difference is noticeable.

Has the design improved over the years? I think the adaptive suspension has improved, but proper care and maintenance is still key to its longevity.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-09-2010, 01:27 PM
cecilt cecilt is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 263
cecilt is starting off with a positive reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassLeather&Wood View Post
Reliability wise, the Expedition as a whole has improved by leaps and bounds. Even the first generations were not known to give excessive problems on average. There will be some "bad applies" in any group of vehicles, no matter what company made it. (a little redundant I know, but bare with me)

Consumer Reports rated the Expedition as well about average in reliability in a recent study of the third generation. Published in a issue of their book.

About the air suspention:
Naturally the more complex a vehicle is, results in a greater chance of some sort of failure sooner or later. If youíre extremely concerned about reliability issues (and thatís a good concern) then I would not recommend you get that option. It will add more complexity to the vehicle.

You must weight out what you need most. If you plan to tow any sort of heavy trailer, then I would recommend that you get the upgraded suspension system.

It is designed to complement the Expeditionís heavy duty trailer tow package, and improve overall towing performance. The difference is noticeable.

Has the design improved over the years? I think the adaptive suspension has improved, but proper care and maintenance is still key to its longevity.
Thanks again for your comments. I did find a nice 2008 with the air ride and all the other options but for some reason it only had the Class III with 4 pin wiring. Now, I tow a popup that fully loaded is under 3500lbs so I am sure this is fine. However, I would hate to think that the standard Class III does not have the necessary tranny and oil coolers. I would need to add the 7 pin wiring or is the wiring there and I just need the plug? As far as the HD for non-HD should I just pass this one up. I could upgrade to a TT later but that is not in the plan for 2010 at least. thanks again for all your help
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-09-2010, 03:18 PM
GlassLeather&Wood GlassLeather&Wood is offline
Junior User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 60
GlassLeather&Wood is starting off with a positive reputation.
A Ford Expedition not equipped with the heavy duty trailer tow pack includes the following: (According to Fordís towing guide)

2007-2008
Class III hitch (Supports only weight carrying)

2009 or so
Class IV hitch (Supports weight carrying and weight distribution)

4-pin trailer wiring harness
Standard transmission oil cooler
Trailer sway control (TSC) for 2010 models
No heavy duty flashers
No 7-pin trailer wiring harness
No heavy duty radiator upgrade
No heavy duty auxiliary transmission oil cooler
No prewiring for electronic trailer brake controller

3.31:1 rear axle ratio is standard, 3.73:1 rear axle ratio is optional.
Non rear air suspension is standard, rear air suspension is optional.

Ford recommends getting the HD tow pack if you plan on towing a trailer over 6,000 lbs.
I personally would not pass up the heavy duty tow pack, if I could help it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-09-2010, 07:23 PM
cecilt cecilt is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 263
cecilt is starting off with a positive reputation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassLeather&Wood View Post
A Ford Expedition not equipped with the heavy duty trailer tow pack includes the following: (According to Fordís towing guide)

2007-2008
Class III hitch (Supports only weight carrying)

2009 or so
Class IV hitch (Supports weight carrying and weight distribution)

4-pin trailer wiring harness
Standard transmission oil cooler
Trailer sway control (TSC) for 2010 models
No heavy duty flashers
No 7-pin trailer wiring harness
No heavy duty radiator upgrade
No heavy duty auxiliary transmission oil cooler
No prewiring for electronic trailer brake controller

3.31:1 rear axle ratio is standard, 3.73:1 rear axle ratio is optional.
Non rear air suspension is standard, rear air suspension is optional.

Ford recommends getting the HD tow pack if you plan on towing a trailer over 6,000 lbs.
I personally would not pass up the heavy duty tow pack, if I could help it.
Sites like these just help put it in perspective. I agree 100%. I plan to tow and I am not willing to compromise on the tow package. I did find one that is very intersting:

2008 Expy Limited, White/tan, nav, dvd, power 3rd row, adj pedals, moonroof, power liftgate, heated/cooled seats, bench 2nd row, univ trans, HD TOW, 20" wheels, backup sensors(trying to confirm if has camera), 5.4, power running boards. Only downside is 40k miles. Not horrible but would have liked it under 30k. We'll see what they can do on price and trades. This color is top 2 and all the options and might have preferred rear captains chairs but can live with a bench. Wish me luck if I proceed on negotiating this one. Anyone with good pricing input.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-11-2010, 12:12 AM
XFML XFML is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 16
XFML is starting off with a positive reputation.
I don't know about earlier generations, but the rear leveling on my old '09 made noises and vibrated on the steering wheel when the air pump was on to fill 'er up. It does that on intervals. Unfortunately, it was considered "normal".

I would check to see the navigation radio power button works, both heated and cooled seats for longer duration like more than a minute, and the rest of the gizmos...things can go wrong...

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-12-2010, 06:25 AM
chuck s chuck s is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Broadview Hts, Ohio
Posts: 512
chuck s is starting off with a positive reputation.
The HD towing option was maybe $350 when I ordered my '07 Expedition. I also specifically ordered this truck withOUT the rear air-leveling system. I recall a dealer stocking sheet that called for maybe 10% - 20% of floor plan vehicles to have HD tow, the rest are country club SUVs.

The goal in towing a heavy trailer is NOT towing with the truck level. The goal is equal weight distribution. A level truck is merely an indication of good weight distribution from a good weight distribution hitch. The air suspension just makes the truck level, it does not remove the excessive weight from the rear suspension. Shut it OFF when you set your hitch. Turn it back on to take the last quarter inch out of the level. Again, I specifically excluded this option on my XLT.

HD Tow is easy to spot on the '07 and up Expeditions. They ALL have the 2" receiver and 4-pole "boat trailer" electrical connector, but only HD Tow has the round "Bargman" 7-pole trailer electrical connector on the rear bumper. Just walk down the line at the dealer and look there. HD Tow adds 3000 pounds to the maximum towing capacity. 6000 standard, ~9000 with HD tow.

The HD engine coolant and transmission radiators are standard Ford parts and "drop in." The wiring package is a bit more complex.

My camper is only 5000 pounds but HD tow is wonderful.

Click the image to open in full size.

-- Chuck
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-18-2010, 10:58 AM
bjtor bjtor is offline
Freshman User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 41
bjtor is starting off with a positive reputation.
Air suspension noise

I have an 08 with the air suspension and the compressor has gotten much louder after a recent service at my local dealer. The dealer has no clue why is is louder and keep telling me everything checks out fine.
The service manager insists that the air conditioning compressor powers the air suspension and my compressor checks out perfectly, so they have done all they can do.
Can anyone offer me any insight into this?
thank you
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-03-2010, 12:58 PM
expy37at expy37at is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 208
expy37at is starting off with a positive reputation.
Ah, "air ride suspensions". Love them.

Bought the first expy [in town] in ~1997, then a maroon one w/out LL in 2001, then the same year a green EB with LL in 2001, and a silver grey Limited 2009 a year ago -January.

Still own all except the 1997.

We pull a converted, to camper, utility trailer that weighs about 4000# and have logged about 40,000 miles on it between 2003 and 2008 with the 2001 expy w/ LL.

Then we placed the 2009 in service and use it only to pull the trailer and it has the rear LL. Logged about 10,000 since we bought it [luckily at the best point in time for saving money, ~$45,000].

The green 2001 w/ LL is now used around town and in the mtns, no longer on long trips w/ the camper.

The maroon [I don't like the color], 2001 is at another location and we use it when there.

The green 2001 w/ LL has had only a few problems at 98,000+ miles. I do all work on it myself so maybe that's why.

I replaced the LL air pump at about 60,000 miles because the rubber isolators were worn, and since we tow all over the country I needed reliability. Also replaced the quick-connect air fitting on the driver's side.

So far the LL has worked fine and having read many horror stories here, I wonder if the bad rap the LL sys gets is due to folks not having the ability and documentation to diagnose and service it.

I went out of my way to find a 2009 WITH LL susp and am glad I did.

We have really enjoyed the safety and capability of our expys. We bought the 2009, among other reasons, for the advanced passenger compartment air bags over the 2001. After not driving it for a few months sometimes, it's strange getting used to it all over vs the 2001's.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-03-2010, 12:59 PM
expy37at expy37at is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 208
expy37at is starting off with a positive reputation.
"The service manager insists that the air conditioning compressor powers the air suspension..."


That's very funny.... Your S-M needs more training.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-03-2010, 07:49 PM
bjtor bjtor is offline
Freshman User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 41
bjtor is starting off with a positive reputation.
air pump

Thanks for the input. I spoke with the service manager and he confirmed that the guy who wrote up the ticket (who I thought was the service manager) wouldn't know an air suspension pump if it fell on him (well he didn't really say it that way!).
He promised to check it out himself! I can't say I will feel reassured, but I will feel better when a guy with grease under his nails checks it out.
Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 07:49 PM
Reply

Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Newer Light Duty Trucks > 2007+ Expedition & Navigator

Tags
2010, 47, air, airbag, diagnostic, expedition, failure, ford, good, heavy, lincoln, load, location, navigator, plug, rear, ride, suspension, truck

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Fordģ is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup