Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Misc. > Exhaust Systems
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


Welcome to Ford-Trucks Forums!
Welcome to Ford-Trucks.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Ford-Trucks Forums community today!





 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 09:44 PM
shawn55 shawn55 is offline
Junior User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 62
shawn55 is starting off with a positive reputation.
True dual Exhaust with no muffler does hurt the motor

I had a 2005 f-250 5.4l with true dual exhaust and no muffler. All i had was the stock cat converter and straight pipe.I want to do this to my 2004 f-350 v-10. does this hurt the motor with no muffler on it.Also i wonder how much louder the v-10 would be.Anbody know????????
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2010, 08:39 AM
KhanTyranitar's Avatar
KhanTyranitar KhanTyranitar is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,357
KhanTyranitar has a very good reputation on FTE.KhanTyranitar has a very good reputation on FTE.KhanTyranitar has a very good reputation on FTE.
No, it will not hurt the motor. However, I don't think you want to mess with the V-10. They tend to sound strange, and they get worse sounding as they get louder in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2010, 08:45 AM
shawn55 shawn55 is offline
Junior User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 62
shawn55 is starting off with a positive reputation.
do you know of anybody that has done it????
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2010, 08:53 AM
Sparky83's Avatar
Sparky83 Sparky83 is offline
Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Virginia Beach, Va
Posts: 51,226
Sparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputation
v10's have the same issue as the v6's do.. people say both cant sound good because of their "even firing order".. people go putting the same mufflers/exhaust systems on both thinking theyd sound good cuz they do on the muscle car/truck v8's but they wont... what you need for the 2 engines are mufflers that kill off the high frequency sounds.. thats what gives them that ricer tone.. flowmasters original recipe mufflers help with this.. itll kill off the high frequency tones leaving the deeper tones people like.. supposedly cherrybombs new vortex muffler uses the same tech but in a different style and freer air flow..

another thing that will help with the sound is to lose the cats and run an off-road pipe... but its not "legal" to do it.. and pretty much wont pass inspections with that.. what alot of muscle car guys end up doing is having 2 mid pipes and swap them when inspection time comes around... but less you have either MIL eliminators or get a tune to turn off your rear o2 sensors your just going to be throwing codes without the cats...
__________________
Shawn Official #11 Slackmaster!#1b WINTER ENTHUSIAST
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity. "
-- Edgar Allan Poe
"I don't Fail... I succeed at finding what doesn't work!"
-- Christopher Titus
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 09:16 PM
RentAMan RentAMan is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: TX
Posts: 226
RentAMan is starting off with a positive reputation.
Talking Exhaust

There is absolutely nothing to gain by eliminating the cat on a newer vehicle with computer controls.
It will be extremely loud and sound kind of off, like the previous OP said.
Even running no mufflers is very loud and makes no sense really...
unless you are deaf already and dont care about your neighbors.
Run a good single exhaust, no bigger than 3" with a Flowmaster muffler of your liking and forget about all the rest. It will sound good and keep you legal. Consider a K&N intake, headers, etc. also.

Rent-A-Man! lawn & tree
Killeen, TX
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2010, 07:10 PM
master_mechanic master_mechanic is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 208
master_mechanic is starting off with a positive reputation.
running with no mufflers wont actually hurt the engine but engines like having a little bit of back pressure... its been proven that flomaster mufflers make more hp then straight pipes.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2010, 10:11 PM
shawn55 shawn55 is offline
Junior User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 62
shawn55 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Thanks for the info, I will be doing my pipes in a few days
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2010, 07:13 AM
BaronVonAutomatc's Avatar
BaronVonAutomatc BaronVonAutomatc is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,503
BaronVonAutomatc is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Destroying a myth.

Some say that "an engine needs backpressure to work correctly." Is this true?

No. It would be more correct to say, "a perfectly stock engine that cannot adjust its fuel delivery needs backpressure to work correctly." This idea is a myth. As with all myths, however, there is a hint of fact with this one. Particularly, some people equate backpressure with torque, and others fear that too little backpressure will lead to valve burning.

The first reason why people say "backpressure is good" is because they believe that increased backpressure by itself will increase torque, particularly with a stock exhaust manifold. Granted, some stock manifolds act somewhat like performance headers at low RPM, but these manifolds will exhibit poor performance at higher RPM. This, however does not automatically lead to the conclusion that backpressure produces more torque. The increase in torque is not due to backpressure, but to the effects of changes in fuel/air mixture, which will be described in more detail below.

The other reason why people say "backpressure is good" is because they hear that cars (or motorcycles) that have had performance exhaust work done to them would then go on to burn exhaust valves. Now, it is true that such valve burning has occurred as a result of the exhaust mods, but it isn't due merely to a lack of backpressure.

The internal combustion engine is a complex, dynamic collection of different systems working together to convert the stored power in gasoline into mechanical energy to push a car down the road. Anytime one of these systems are modified, that mod will also indirectly affect the other systems, as well.

Now, valve burning occurs as a result of a very lean-burning engine. In order to achieve a theoretical optimal combustion, an engine needs 14.7 parts of oxygen by mass to 1 part of gasoline (again, by mass). This is referred to as a stochiometric (chemically correct) mixture, and is commonly referred to as a 14.7:1 mix. If an engine burns with less oxygen present (13:1, 12:1, etc...), it is said to run rich. Conversely, if the engine runs with more oxygen present (16:1, 17:1, etc...), it is said to run lean. Today's engines are designed to run at 14.7:1 for normally cruising, with rich mixtures on acceleration or warm-up, and lean mixtures while decelerating.

Getting back to the discussion, the reason that exhaust valves burn is because the engine is burning lean. Normal engines will tolerate lean burning for a little bit, but not for sustained periods of time. The reason why the engine is burning lean to begin with is that the reduction in backpressure is causing more air to be drawn into the combustion chamber than before. Earlier cars (and motorcycles) with carburetion often could not adjust because of the way that backpressure caused air to flow backwards through the carburetor after the air already got loaded down with fuel, and caused the air to receive a second load of fuel. While a bad design, it was nonetheless used in a lot of vehicles. Once these vehicles received performance mods that reduced backpressure, they no longer had that double-loading effect, and then tended to burn valves because of the resulting over-lean condition. This, incidentally, also provides a basis for the "torque increase" seen if backpressure is maintained. As the fuel/air mixture becomes leaner, the resultant combustion will produce progressively less and less of the force needed to produce torque.

The truth about exhaust backpressure and torque
__________________
1986 Bronco w/300 I6 & ZF 5-Speed
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2010, 07:48 AM
BaronVonAutomatc's Avatar
BaronVonAutomatc BaronVonAutomatc is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,503
BaronVonAutomatc is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Auto Exhaust Science

More...
__________________
1986 Bronco w/300 I6 & ZF 5-Speed
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2010, 08:50 AM
master_mechanic master_mechanic is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 208
master_mechanic is starting off with a positive reputation.
Why is it then if you dyno a car with straight pipes and then put flowmasters on it and dyno it again there will be an increase in power and torque? All you've done is create a little bit of backpressure
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2010, 11:00 AM
BaronVonAutomatc's Avatar
BaronVonAutomatc BaronVonAutomatc is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,503
BaronVonAutomatc is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
For the same reason people pick up .2th of a second or more at the track with exhaust cut-outs?

Mufflers are just one part of a much larger equation. If a restriction in the exhaust increases your performance you need to take a look at what's wrong upstream. Especially when your talking about three or four hp on a dyno.

In the case of an otherwise stock truck it won't help or hurt anything appreciably. What does a V10 rev to? 4,500rpm?
__________________
1986 Bronco w/300 I6 & ZF 5-Speed
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2010, 01:16 PM
Sparky83's Avatar
Sparky83 Sparky83 is offline
Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Virginia Beach, Va
Posts: 51,226
Sparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputation
this one says pretty much the same thing about backpressure.. but talks about it for other reasons...

Performance Unlimited 4-Wheel & Off Road Center - Hartford, Wisconsin - USA Technical Documents

its under the exhaust piping selection diagram...
__________________
Shawn Official #11 Slackmaster!#1b WINTER ENTHUSIAST
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity. "
-- Edgar Allan Poe
"I don't Fail... I succeed at finding what doesn't work!"
-- Christopher Titus
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2010, 02:19 PM
dkf's Avatar
dkf dkf is online now
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pa
Posts: 9,198
dkf is a splendid one to beholddkf is a splendid one to beholddkf is a splendid one to beholddkf is a splendid one to beholddkf is a splendid one to beholddkf is a splendid one to beholddkf is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
What does a V10 rev to? 4,500rpm?
An 04' 6.8l with the automatic trans and stock tuning will not rev above 5100rpm. The tach goes to 6 grand with no redline but the rev limiter in both neutral and drive is well shy of 6k rpm.

I got Doug Thorley long tube headers/y pipe, dynatech 3" cat, to a Flowmaster ForceII catback all mandrel bent 3" pipe. The velocity of the exhaust is great, the low end is great and the top end is great and I lost nothing with the combo.

I've had all kinds of exhaust configurations on my 6.8l over the years and my current setup works and sounds better than anything I've had. Best bet for the V10 is to use a chambered muffler with a decent amount of capacity to it. If you want to put more power to the ground get a tuner with a good tune for the truck, a good tune (like 5 Star tuning) will do more than screwing with catback exhaust systems. The exhaust manifolds and y-pipe on the 6.8l are also horrible and hurt power a lot.

A V10 with no mufflers will be loud and have very noticeable drone, it will be annoying.
Quote:
Today's engines are designed to run at 14.7:1 for normally cruising, with rich mixtures on acceleration or warm-up, and lean mixtures while decelerating.
Not necessarily. Ford trucks like the SD run stoich all the time except for over temp conditions. The factory tuning is setup to switch into open loop under extended periods of engine braking at which the fuel injectors are shut off to save fuel. The stock tuning leaves a lot to be desired and can be improved on greatly.
__________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." (Thomas Jefferson)
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2010, 06:28 PM
Sparky83's Avatar
Sparky83 Sparky83 is offline
Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Virginia Beach, Va
Posts: 51,226
Sparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf View Post
I got Doug Thorley long tube headers/y pipe, dynatech 3" cat, to a Flowmaster ForceII catback all mandrel bent 3" pipe. The velocity of the exhaust is great, the low end is great and the top end is great and I lost nothing with the combo.
wow i didnt know anyone made long tube headers for the v10's.. all i could ever find were short tubes... got a link for that site man??
__________________
Shawn Official #11 Slackmaster!#1b WINTER ENTHUSIAST
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity. "
-- Edgar Allan Poe
"I don't Fail... I succeed at finding what doesn't work!"
-- Christopher Titus
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 08:03 AM
dkf's Avatar
dkf dkf is online now
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pa
Posts: 9,198
dkf is a splendid one to beholddkf is a splendid one to beholddkf is a splendid one to beholddkf is a splendid one to beholddkf is a splendid one to beholddkf is a splendid one to beholddkf is a splendid one to behold
Basically short tubes just bolt up to the factory Y-pipe. Long tubes replace the entire Y pipe assembly. Doug Thorley, Banks, Borla and Hedmann al make/made long tube headers for the 2V 6.8l. Borla stopped making them years ago and Thorley just recently discontinued their headers also. Banks makes a set of long tubes for the 3V 6.8l but they are only for the large motorhome chassis. The Thorleys are the only tri-y headers for the V10, they make lots of torque but still make good HP.

SummitRacing.com

Banks Power | 99-09 Ford - 6.8L V-10>>PowerPack® System
__________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." (Thomas Jefferson)
Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 08:03 AM
Reply

Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Misc. > Exhaust Systems

Tags
2006, 2007, 2010, 54l, complete, dual, duel, exhaust, f150, f250, ford, muffler, truck, trucks, true, v10

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. FordŽ is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup