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  #46  
Old 01-13-2010, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnflat View Post
Hi Julie and Denny and others...

Thanks for excellent information and pictures, this helps a lot. For the new parts, no problem in waiting. Good luck with your initiative.

My friends '52 F6 is manufactured (assembled ?) in Belgium so it might be that some parts are different from US trucks. I will get a picture of the heater soon and I'll try post it here. He said that it has 2 fan blades that the same heater motor is spinning. Is that the same kind of structure as in the recirculating heaters ? Can a replacement 6 volt motor be found or is it the same motor as Magic Air ?

Sorry for multiple questions

Pekka
I think it would hellp if you provided a picture of the unit. In the mean time here is mine unassembled.Click the image to open in full size.
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  #47  
Old 01-13-2010, 02:10 PM
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The motors on the recirculating heater are different than those from the 51/52 Magic Air.

The 48-50 Magic Air, and (as far as I know) all the recirculating heater motors are available in both 6 and 12 volt.

The limiting factor on the 51/52 Magic Air heater motor is the physical size of the motor - which was thought to be only available in 6 volt.

The 51/52 Magic Air heaters had a reduced case size to still allow for the fresh air input, but not be so large as to extend out into the cab. So the motor length was shortened. Finding a 12 volt motor to fit in the smaller space has been a challenge, but may be solved. Firstrider has found and installed a 12 volt motor that seems to work. I have one coming and will be attempting a conversion as well. In the mean time, the Vol-ta-drop voltage reducer I use to run my 6 volt heater in my 12 volt truck works flawlessly!
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  #48  
Old 01-13-2010, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julies Cool F1 View Post
The motors on the recirculating heater are different than those from the 51/52 Magic Air.

The 48-50 Magic Air, and (as far as I know) all the recirculating heater motors are available in both 6 and 12 volt.

The limiting factor on the 51/52 Magic Air heater motor is the physical size of the motor - which was thought to be only available in 6 volt.
All the heater blower motors...as original...thru 1955 are 6 volt, because 1956 was the first year for 12 volt anything.

The following 6 Volt blower motors were typed verbatum from the 1948/56 Ford Truck Parts Catalog:

8A18527E .. Heater Blower Motor-C/CW / Universal / Use w/Recirculating Heater / Shaft diameter 1/4"

Fits: 1948/50 Trucks, except Parcel Delivery / 1949/50 Passenger Cars.

ANTIQUE AUTO SUPPLY in Arlington TX has TWO = 817-275-2381.
----------------------------------------------------------------
8C18527A .. Heater Blower Motor-CW / Use w/Fresh Air Heater / Shaft diameter 5/16" / Studs and shaft on same end.

Fits: 1948/50 Trucks except Parcel Delivery.

CARPENTER NOS OBSOLETE PARTS in Concord NC has ONE = 704-786-8139.

GREEN SALES CO. in Cincinnati OH has TWO = 800-543-4959.
------------------------------------------------------------
8C18527B .. Heater Blower Motor-CW / Use w/Fresh Air Heater / Shaft diameter 1/4" / Studs and shaft on opposite ends.

Fits: 1948/52 Trucks except Parcel Delivery.

GREEN SALES CO. has TWO.
----------------------------
8J18527B .. Heater Blower Motor / Fits: 1948/55 Parcel Delivery.

No Ford Dealer or obsolete parts vendor has any.
-----------------------------------------------
FAC18527B .. Heater Blower Motor-C/CW / Use with Recirculating Heater / Shaft diameter 1/4"

Fits: 1948/53 Trucks except Parcel Delivery & C750/800 School Bus / 1952/53 Passenger Cars.

No Ford Dealer or obsolete parts vendor has any.
-----------------------------------------------
0A18527C .. Heater Blower Motor-C/CW / Universal / Use w/Recirculating Heater / Shaft diameter 1/4" / Shaft extends 7/8" at one end; 3/4" at opposite end.

Fits: 1948/51 Trucks except Parcel Delivery / 1949/51 Passenger Cars.

No Ford Dealer or obsolete parts vendor has any.

If y'all are confused, you oughtta try typing this jazz. That IS confusing!
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  #49  
Old 01-13-2010, 03:49 PM
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Thanks for the input Bill.

For clarification, my comment was based on motors that are available OEM or aftermarket in both 6 and 12 volt, not just 6 volt Genuine Ford Parts availability. And I know that with almost 50 posts on the subject, staying focused on the original orientation of the subject can be difficult.

I don't think Ford's makin' the OEM motors any more and certainly didn't make any 12 volt substitutes. So the focus here is mainly with aftermarket substitutes. If you have part numbers for a 12 volt motor - that ANYONE MAKES - that will actually fit in the 51/52 Magic Air, it would certainly solve a lot of problems.

WRT the 48-52 Magic Air heater motors being the same, that may have been true in 1952, but it's 2010. Perhaps OEM 6 volt motors will interchange between 48-52 heaters. But having actually seen the motors out of both 49 and 51 Magic Air heaters, they are definately different dimensions - by over 1/2 inch in length. And the available (not Ford Produced) replacement 12 volt motors (since Ford did not produce the motors in 12 volt) that fit in a 48-50 Magic Air heater - the one with the motor box out under the fender , WILL NOT fit in a 51/52 Magic Air Box without being modified. Even the newly manufactured 12 volt motors that are supposed to be a direct substitute present problems.

It may be a slight difference in supposedly "non critical" characteristics - such as the dimples on the top of the motor, that cause the space problem, but, they exist and impact the replacement.

I'm going to check the 12V Heater motor replacement that I have coming from SVF to see if it will fit. Perhaps it has been manufactured with the problems I experienced 6 years ago noted, taken into account, and corrected

Not trying to be argumentative, but as I have stated a number of times on the three threads that are circulating WRT the Magic Air heaters, there is a big difference between reading dimensions or specifications out of a book or online, and going out to the shop and making the thing actually fit - and fit right. Seem to be a lot of challenges to what has been said by folks who have done a lot of reading and a lot of research but who haven't converted the philosophy into actuallity by doing a whole lot of installions.

I have done this.

Now, I have gotten an input from someone who has actually done this and I'm going to check it out. I have no reason to doubt this member, whom I respect a great deal.

So, I have another motor coming that a co-member suggested, and we'll see how it works. But up until now, I can state unequivically that the 12 volt motors that are being sold as substitutes for 48-50 Ford Magic Air heaters will not fit in a 51 Magic Air case without modification. And the day I (or any one else here) am able to buy a 12 volt motor, and have it fit in my 51 case without being ground down or cut up, then I'll stop saying there isn't an acceptable 12 volt substitute. We'll see.

In the mean time, if you need a 6 volt motor Bills resources are invaluable, But if you have a 12 volt system and want to run a 6 volt heater, you can either use the Vol-ta-drop - without any negative impacts (that's what I actually have in my truck and it works wonderfully) or you can wait until we confirm that this new 12 volt motor will fit then retrofit.
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  #50  
Old 01-13-2010, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julies Cool F1 View Post
Thanks for the input Bill.

For clarification, my comment was based on motors that are available OEM or aftermarket in both 6 and 12 volt, not just 6 volt Genuine Ford Parts availability.
I assumed that, but...how many other people would?

WRT the 48-52 Magic Air heater motors being the same, I challange that whether it is in the book or not.
Do you have the 1948/56 Ford Truck Parts Catalog? I assuming...prolly not.

If you did have this parts catalog, then you could read the info for yourself in Volume I ~ Text on page 765.

Where else could I have gotten the info, from a crystal ball?

Maybe it's time for you to step up, kiddo...and buy this parts catalog.

Reprints of this catalog (Volume 1-Text and Volume II-Illustrations) are available from Carpenter as a set for 200 bucks.

Or, you can buy the CD version of the whole tamale from hipoparts.com for around 20 bucks.

I'm using the original paper versions. I got 'em from Pasadena Ford when they closed in August 2008. Plus, I got 60 other paper Ford parts catalogs, and 500 parts catalogs on microfiche: FREE.

I have an extra copy of Volume I in ratty condition (the covers are MIA). Waltz on over here...you (or anyone else that's close by) can have it...for free.
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  #51  
Old 01-13-2010, 04:47 PM
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Bill, we've had this same argument before. And again it's irrelevant.

And you have asked me 10 times if I have the stupid catalogue and I keep telling you "YES" I have one. And I really don't care what a book said in 1952 about parts that were available in 1952. It's not important that I have the stupid catalogue or not except for the fact that it seems to be your ongoing cop out for inputs that don't jive with the old books, you don't particularly agree with, or can't seem to get on board with the subject being discussed. I'm interested in 2010 and what parts can be purchased, and SUCCESSFULLY installed as substitutes TODAY!

I could read the catalogue until the cows come home, but it would provide NOTHING that has to do with the REALITY of the situation and that is that the 12 volt motors used in the 48-50 heaters as substitutes TODAY do not fit in the 51/52 MAGIC AIR case. And no matter how many times I read what's in the stupid catalogue, it's STILL not going to fit!

So instead of using the regular Bill Cop out by saying you need to purchase an obsolete reference book and "if you read old the book, it will happen," how about trying some reality, and looking through all your resources and providing us with a Ford Part number for a 12 volt motor that will fit in a 51/52 Magic Air heater that is actually available. Because THAT'S what's needed to fix this problem - not going out and buying catalogues to read OBSOLETE information on old parts (that for the most part) no longer exist, are no longer available or are not what the person wants.

Focus for a second Bill---- ok: Heater motor, 12 volt, clockwise rotation, commonly available, off the shelf, that actaully fits into a 1951 or 1952 Ford Magic Air Heater.

Like I said, I have a point from a reliable source I will TEST in APPLICATION by trying an actual INSTALLATION.

PS Did you ever look into the Ford-to-Borg Warner overdrive transmission designation cross references you were going to provide everyone after our last debate?
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  #52  
Old 01-13-2010, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julies Cool F1 View Post
Bill, we've had this same argument before. And again it's irrelevant.

And you have asked me 10 times if I have the stupid catalogue and I keep telling you "YES" I have one. And I really don't care what a book said in 1952 about parts that were available in 1952. It's not important that I have the stupid catalogue or not except for the fact that it seems to be your ongoing cop out for inputs that don't jive with the old books, you don't particularly agree with, or can't seem to get on board with the subject being discussed. I'm interested in 2010 and what parts can be purchased, and SUCCESSFULLY installed as substitutes TODAY!

I could read the catalogue until the cows come home, but it would provide NOTHING that has to do with the REALITY of the situation and that is that the 12 volt motors used in the 48-50 heaters as substitutes TODAY do not fit in the 51/52 MAGIC AIR case. And no matter how many times I read what's in the stupid catalogue, it's STILL not going to fit!

So instead of using the regular Bill Cop out by saying you need to purchase an obsolete reference book and "if you read old the book, it will happen," how about trying some reality, and looking through all your resources and providing us with a Ford Part number for a 12 volt motor that will fit in a 51/52 Magic Air heater that is actually available. Because THAT'S what's needed to fix this problem - not going out and buying catalogues to read OBSOLETE information on old parts (that for the most part) no longer exist, are no longer available or are not what the person wants.

Focus for a second Bill---- ok: Heater motor, 12 volt, clockwise rotation, commonly available, off the shelf, that actually fits into a 1951 or 1952 Ford Magic Air Heater.

PS Did you ever look into the Ford-to-Borg Warner overdrive transmission designation cross references you were going to provide everyone after our last debate?
Since I'm retired, I cannot go to the parts bin and compare heater blower motors. I do know that many of the 1960 and newer motors have a flange on them, so they cannot be used.

What I would suggest is contact Green Sales, who has the largest stock of NOS parts on the planet.

There's a fellow that works there (an ex Ford partsman) I met at the 2008 F100 SuperNats in Knoxville that WOULD know, as he has his own obsolete parts biz on the side specializing in these trucks.

You challenged me by saying the info was not in the parts catalog (which was printed in 1964, not 1952)...but it is.

Where the hell else could I have found it? Since you have this catalog, you could have read it yourself, so your challenge is moot.

Since I'm disabled and cannot get around very well, I spend a lot of time on the net...typing this crap for the benefit of others...for the simple reason...it gives me something to do.

No one else in this forum seems to complain, so if you don't like what I type, don't read it.

I don't recall the O/D references, what was it I was supposed to do?
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  #53  
Old 01-13-2010, 06:10 PM
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I glad I read this post.

When I was taking my truck apart the other week I tossed the heater core and motor thinking it was a cheap part. I know the motor was toast as it went up in smoke 20+ years ago. Luckily I forgot to take the trash out on pick up day.

Was there two option for heaters in these truck? Cause mine looks nothing like the pictures you guys have posted, or I might be missing the covering.

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  #54  
Old 01-13-2010, 06:20 PM
Julies Cool F1 Julies Cool F1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julies Cool F1 View Post
The motors on the recirculating heater are different than those from the 51/52 Magic Air.

The 48-50 Magic Air, and (as far as I know) all the recirculating heater motors are available in both 6 and 12 volt.

The limiting factor on the 51/52 Magic Air heater motor is the physical size of the motor - which was thought to be only available in 6 volt.

The 51/52 Magic Air heaters had a reduced case size to still allow for the fresh air input, but not be so large as to extend out into the cab. So the motor length was shortened. Finding a 12 volt motor to fit in the smaller space has been a challenge, but may be solved. Firstrider has found and installed a 12 volt motor that seems to work. I have one coming and will be attempting a conversion as well. In the mean time, the Vol-ta-drop voltage reducer I use to run my 6 volt heater in my 12 volt truck works flawlessly!
Bill, this is what I said. And as can often happens with the written computer word, you simply mis understood (or I was not clear enough) to project that the question originally was about finding a substitute for the heater in eithe 6 or 12 volt, not what the original motor was. If the OP wanted an OEM 6 volt motor than your information was apropos, if he didn't, is wasn't. But my point was still about the 6 and 12 volt motors being tried as substitutes for the originals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberDummy View Post
Since I'm retired, I cannot go to the parts bin and compare heater blower motors. I do know that many of the 1960 and newer motors have a flange on them, so they cannot be used.

What I would suggest is contact Green Sales, who has the largest stock of NOS parts on the planet.

There's a fellow that works there (an ex Ford partsman) I met at the 2008 F100 SuperNats in Knoxville that WOULD know, as he has his own obsolete parts biz on the side specializing in these trucks.

You challenged me by saying the info was not in the parts catalog (which was printed in 1964, not 1952)...but it is. Where the hell else could I have found it? SInce you have this catalog, you can read it for yourself.

I don't need to read it. It's not applicable to the discussion. It's old news - been there - done that. You don't seem to get that.

And I never said a thing about the information contained in the catalogues prior to your post. I said that the CURRENT 48 to 50 12 volt motors being used as substitutes didn't fit in the 51 to 52 heaters - may be you didn't get that either. And after your quote I simply said again, we are looking at the currently available substitutes. And the motors needed are not listed in the catalogue, because they were not available -ie 12 volt, or desired -ie 6 volt. And as long as you bring it up, the Manual you are refering to DOESN'T list a 12 volt heater motor for the 51 to 52 Fresh Air heater does it. No, because there wasn't one. And I aslo don't care about the publish dates of the publish dates of the catalogue, more irrellevant nit picking to attempt to point out ignorance when it wasn't that important for me to quote the exact proper title year of the catalogue when we're talking about 51 and 52 heaters - it's assumed - context!

Since I'm disabled and cannot walk very well, I spend a lot of time typing this crap for the benefit of others...for the simple reason...it gives me something to do.

No one else in this forum seems to complain, so if you don't like what I type, don't read it.

I don't recall the O/D references, what was it I was supposed to do?


Oh Bill - cry me a river.

The only time I dislike your inputs is when they are condecending. And your statement "Maybe it's time for you to step up, kiddo...and buy this parts catalog." was condecending and demeaning as it was recieved. Why insinuate that if I were to read the book (about somehting that had nothing to do with the discussion) I might finally know what I was talking about when you can flat out say it....Humph. I know what I'm talking about in this case Bill because I've done it, not read about it - on the internet or in the catalogue, but because I have actually and physically done this on a work bench.

As far as simply not reading what you publish - that I don't like - un acceptable, that attitude died as far as being acceptable in the 80s along with Polock jokes in the work place. You are responsible for what you say Bill, so don't be surprised if there's some accountability.

So if you don't like the pushbacks, then don't push in the first place -that's been mentioned to you a number of times - by a number of people.

You're a great help on this site Bill, more than anyone else, but that's not a "Get out of Jail Free" card for rudeness.

I've noticed more than once that you and I seem to have a "Special ability" to argue - and maybe it's because I take disrespect - percieved or not - a little more seriously than you guys. I'm sure you'll all agree it's a girl thing.

But the day you go to work at 4 am wearing make-up a skirt and heels, and have to deal with some people who still think it's ok to pinch you on the rear end or call you "honey," then maybe you'll demonstrate a conscinetious thought process about why someone is sensative to it here. Wound a little too tight - perhaps in YOUR eyes. Irregardless, I'm not going to take it here - from anyone - not for one by God minute. Got it Toots?


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  #55  
Old 01-13-2010, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnflat View Post
Hi Julie and Denny and others...

Thanks for excellent information and pictures, this helps a lot. For the new parts, no problem in waiting. Good luck with your initiative.

My friends '52 F6 is manufactured (assembled ?) in Belgium so it might be that some parts are different from US trucks. I will get a picture of the heater soon and I'll try post it here. He said that it has 2 fan blades that the same heater motor is spinning. Is that the same kind of structure as in the recirculating heaters ? Can a replacement 6 volt motor be found or is it the same motor as Magic Air ?

Sorry for multiple questions

Pekka
I may still have my 6v motor from a recirculating heater. It worked fine, will check and let you know.
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  #56  
Old 01-14-2010, 01:38 PM
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'52 Recirculating heater

Hi,

Behind this link is a picture of my friends '52 F6 recirculating heater. It does not look like the other ones, so maybe they installed different heaters in Europe ? (The truck is assembled in Belgium).

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d9...3012010020.jpg

The next thing we will do is to measure the motor and check what direction it is turning. I'll get more pictures of the heater.

The aim is to find a replacement 6V motor.

Thanks for all of your help, it is greatly appreciated !

Pekka
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  #57  
Old 01-14-2010, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnflat View Post
Hi,

Behind this link is a picture of my friends '52 F6 recirculating heater. It does not look like the other ones, so maybe they installed different heaters in Europe ? (The truck is assembled in Belgium).

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d9...3012010020.jpg

The next thing we will do is to measure the motor and check what direction it is turning. I'll get more pictures of the heater.

The aim is to find a replacement 6V motor.

Thanks for all of your help, it is greatly appreciated !

Pekka
I still have a great working 6v motor that I took out of the unit I restored.
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  #58  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnflat View Post
Hi,

Behind this link is a picture of my friends '52 F6 recirculating heater. It does not look like the other ones, so maybe they installed different heaters in Europe ? (The truck is assembled in Belgium).

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d9...3012010020.jpg

The next thing we will do is to measure the motor and check what direction it is turning. I'll get more pictures of the heater.

The aim is to find a replacement 6V motor.

Thanks for all of your help, it is greatly appreciated !

Pekka
I believe that is a mid-'40's heater; I also believe they use a reversible motor to provide defrost function, see if you can tell from the fan switch. I have a replacement motor number for Siemens at home, if the heater is what I believe it to be.
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  #59  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:08 PM
Julies Cool F1 Julies Cool F1 is offline
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This is a picture of a heater I posted on the previous page:

Click the image to open in full size.

And this is the picture from your link:

Click the image to open in full size.

As you can see they are very similar. the top heater was out of a 1947-1949 Ford Car. So I would guess that your friends heater was of similar or slightly earlier vintage.

The 6 volt motors - as I previously stated, are widely available. The trick is finding one at a good price.

If you get stuck, here is a link to C&G Ford Parts who sells these motors both in stock reproduction, or universal substitute. They are 6 volt. You may also try the sources Bill mentioned above. As I recall, Ross' motor had the best price.

https://secure435.hostgator.com/~dlv...4&g=282&t=1667
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:07 PM
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That first one looks like my daughters Easy Bake oven
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1950 F-1, Flathead V8, 3spd on the floor.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:07 PM
 
 
 
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