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Old 12-02-2009, 04:44 PM
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B100 in a 6.0

My plan is to run B100 in my 6.0 year round. I know when it's colder I'll have to add anti-gel additives, which I hear can be pricy, but I think that complete independence of dino, and significant cost savings, I'd still come out ahead of the game. Thing is, I'm not sure what I need to do to my engine to be able to run b100 year round, nor what additives i'll have to add to the biodiesel to make it friendly to the colder weather. That's primarily why I'm here.

I also plan to use it for home heating. I can replace hte fuel pump orings in my furnace and install an indoor tank that won't be exposed to the elements without to much of a hassle, and not spending $500/mo on heating oil will save me a bundle.

I can source up to 500-550gal a month of WVO for $0.40/gal or less, from 5 seperate locations, all family resturants, that are my family or close friends of my family. I have a couple sources for the chemicals but they're just initial findings, I'm sure if I shop around more I can find them for cheaper.

Thanks guys!
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:00 PM
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Don't know if there are issues with a 6.0 and bio. It's the 07 and newer that need modification. As far as additives, I ran 30% bio without problems most of last winter, even sub-zero. Running 50/50 now, but hasn't gotten below the 20's until today. Think I did have a shot of Diesel Klean in it when it was 17 below last year??? Anyway, even mixing you will save bucks, My last few batches were $1.08, $.93, $1.30, $.68, and $.98/gal to make.
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:04 PM
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Welcome to our small part of FTE Jay. The cloud point of your bio is directly related to the base oil type. Canola has the lowest cloud point followed by Soy, with Palm oil the worst. Non-hydrogenated oil will also have a lower cloud point. I use B-100 from March through November, then blend to B-80 to get the cloud temp down to about +10 deg. If the weather looks like it's going to drop below 0 deg, I add enough to get the bio to B-50. We had a week of 10-15 BELOW last winter and I had no problems all winter. You will have to do NOTHING to your truck at all, since Ford went to synthetic "o" rings and hoses on all the diesels since 1994.

Since you have a great source for your WVO, make sure that the restaurants don't put the water they clean the grills with into your oil. Try and have them keep your oil as clean as possible.

Using KOH as your catalyst will make glycerol more easily disposable. After recovering the excess Methanol, it can be mixed with livestock feed, used as a fertilizer, or used as a dust control for gravel roads. I sell mine to my local county road dept.

I'm sure you'll have more questions, so ask away and someone here should have an answer for you.
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:54 PM
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Thanks for the info. Currently they're dumping the rinse water that they use in as well. What other solution is there for disposing of that oil/grease water? They don't dispose of grease from the grill in it, just the water they flush the fryers with.

I know about the synthetic o-rings since 94, but i do hear a lot of people complaining about injectors and b20. That is what spawns that question.

It was 25F this morning, and it doesn't get cold until jan/feb. We've had weeks on end of single or negative digit weather, that's why I am looking for an anti-gel additive. When you make B50 or B80, do you premix it or put diesel in your truck then b100 on top of it or what?

I had planned on using KOH, NaOH info isn't as available, and the info that is available says that it's easier to go with KOH.

I will figure out what the oil type they're using is, but i'm pretty sure it's Canola. Cloud point is the point at which you have problems getting it through the lines and injectors, ie 'gelling' correct?

I have to supply a bin for them to dump in, the current bin is owned by those that are currently collecting the WVO. My plan was just get a tanker trailer that they can dump in, take it to work, drop it off on the way there, they dump, then take it home when I go home from work. Leaving something there 24/7 is a liability, and I'm not insured.

Also, on the home heating system, no mods from what I hear on the web, other than orings. It's a new system in 04, so I would think they should be synthetic as well. I'm going to get 4x 275gal indoor tanks, one for my home heating, one for pre-processed, one for post-processed, and one for the hell of it because I save so much shipping getting 4 with combined pallet shipping to an elevated loading dock.

I see so damned many designs though, prebuilt, build your own, etc. I want to build my own to produce the absolute purest biodiesel possible. Blowing up my 6.0 or my home heating system is really not high on my list, and i keep reading horror stories about how **** bd will mess stuff up. I know a fair amount about washing and scrubbing, using proper chemicals, and so on. But I haven't put it to practice yet. I'm going to pick up a 5gal bucket of the stuff for trials on a small scale, and see how that turns out.
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushmore X View Post
Don't know if there are issues with a 6.0 and bio. It's the 07 and newer that need modification. As far as additives, I ran 30% bio without problems most of last winter, even sub-zero. Running 50/50 now, but hasn't gotten below the 20's until today. Think I did have a shot of Diesel Klean in it when it was 17 below last year??? Anyway, even mixing you will save bucks, My last few batches were $1.08, $.93, $1.30, $.68, and $.98/gal to make.
How are you getting your mix prices so low? You must be figuring in the savings from reclaimed methanol. I figure about $1.25/gal using new methanol and paying $.20/gal for the oil.
Hey Don. I know you are reading this so I'll say hi and hope you had a great Thanksgiving. Tom
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaySVX View Post
Thanks for the info. Currently they're dumping the rinse water that they use in as well. What other solution is there for disposing of that oil/grease water? They don't dispose of grease from the grill in it, just the water they flush the fryers with.

I have my restaurants dump their wash water in a 5 gallon pail which I then haul away for them.

I know about the synthetic o-rings since 94, but i do hear a lot of people complaining about injectors and b20. That is what spawns that question.

It was 25F this morning, and it doesn't get cold until jan/feb. We've had weeks on end of single or negative digit weather, that's why I am looking for an anti-gel additive. When you make B50 or B80, do you premix it or put diesel in your truck then b100 on top of it or what?

I've tried all the so-called anti gel's out there, and haven't found any that really work with biodiesel. I blend my B-80 etc in a mixing tank and circulate the "mix" for a couple of hours with a pump, then pump it into my main tank through a 1 micron absolute filter.



I had planned on using KOH, NaOH info isn't as available, and the info that is available says that it's easier to go with KOH.

I will figure out what the oil type they're using is, but I'm pretty sure it's Canola. Cloud point is the point at which you have problems getting it through the lines and injectors, ie 'gelling' correct?

Cloud point is the point at which you can see "clouding" in the bio. Gel point is the point at which it will not pour.


I have to supply a bin for them to dump in, the current bin is owned by those that are currently collecting the WVO. My plan was just get a tanker trailer that they can dump in, take it to work, drop it off on the way there, they dump, then take it home when I go home from work. Leaving something there 24/7 is a liability, and I'm not insured.

Also, on the home heating system, no mods from what I hear on the web, other than orings. It's a new system in 04, so I would think they should be synthetic as well. I'm going to get 4x 275gal indoor tanks, one for my home heating, one for pre-processed, one for post-processed, and one for the hell of it because I save so much shipping getting 4 with combined pallet shipping to an elevated loading dock.

I belong to a Yahoo group called "altfuelfurnace" that has been using bio for home heating for years. Since bio is an oxygenated fuel ( approx 10-12%) it takes less air to combust. You will need to turn down the "air ring" on your burner, and reset the fuel pressure from 100psi ( most normal burners) to about 150psi, and may have to change to a lower firing rate nozzle. I use bio in the oil furnace in my shop and have for years. My shop is unheated at night so I use B-50 most of the winter.



I see so damned many designs though, prebuilt, build your own, etc. I want to build my own to produce the absolute purest biodiesel possible. Blowing up my 6.0 or my home heating system is really not high on my list, and i keep reading horror stories about how **** bd will mess stuff up. I know a fair amount about washing and scrubbing, using proper chemicals, and so on. But I haven't put it to practice yet. I'm going to pick up a 5gal bucket of the stuff for trials on a small scale, and see how that turns out.
The process of "water washing" is problematic and can create lots of problems. I use, and recommend using the "dry-wash" system using Magnesol. It makes for a far better quality fuel with less hassle, and 0 waste water disposal problems. I build only "open" style processors, and do not like using the "appleseed" style. My processor does not use an electrical heating element immersed in the oil (fire hazard) and I use mechanical mixing rather than pump mixing.
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Old 12-03-2009, 05:00 PM
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How are you getting your mix prices so low? You must be figuring in the savings from reclaimed methanol. I figure about $1.25/gal using new methanol and paying $.20/gal for the oil.
Getting the oil for free and using reclaimed methanol. Our Methanol is $15.60 for 5 gallons, $104.94 for 22 kg of KOH. Magnesol comes out to be about $.18 per gallon of bio...
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:48 PM
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I am, and have been, water washing. Works well for me, although time consuming and uses a lot of water, (total of around 50-60 gallons to wash a 45 gallon batch. Definitely practice on one litre batches to get the hang of it, (google Dr.Pepper method). I did quite a few of these to gain an understanding of how it all worked before proceeding with constructing my reactor and wash tank. As far as cloud and gel points, what I do is place a jar of finished fuel outside where I park my truck. If I see any trace of clouding, I'll cut what I have in my tank with pump #2. Here are some pics of my set up, and if you are interested, there are a few more in my albums.

Wash tank to the left, 55 gallon drum reactor in the middle, methoxide mixer to the right.
Click the image to open in full size.

Reactor plumbing, also showing wok brazed to bottom of drum to increase capacity and improve draining.
Click the image to open in full size.

My set up is a very basic set up which works well for me, makes great fuel, and was inexpensive to build. My current raw cost per gallon (methanol and KOH) is $.75
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:18 AM
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JaySVX,
The horror stories that you will hear about using Biodiesel is usually related to bad quality Biodiesel. It is also related to people that don't understand or know how to use biodiesel correctly. In my 2 short years of using biodiesel I have found that blending down to b50 in the cold winter months is the safest way to bring down the cloud point of the fuel. Where I am the temps get down to the 20's F on cold winter mornings and I have never had a fuel gelling issue. There are 2 really important things to do when using Biodiesel in our 6.0 psd. One is monitor the motor really closely. If it is low on power change those fuel filters fast. These motors do not like to have low fuel pressure and you will loose an injector or fuel pump if you run her on low pressure. The second is quality fuel. These motors are really particular about fuel quality. Be really **** when it comes to making or purchasing quality fuel.
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:18 AM
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