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Old 11-30-2009, 03:21 PM
bf204 bf204 is offline
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Thinking Tires: LT vs P ? Mich vs BFG?

Hi All,

My 00 Expedition 4x4 (5.4L) which is relatively new to me, could use some new rubber. It has Michelin LTX M&S on it now. They're worn pretty badly, and my first experience with wintery roads with these tires didn't instill confidence that I'd want to go through the winter on them... Size on there is P 255/70/16.

Given that I want winter performance and also good grip on gravel/sand wet boat launches in summer, I'm thinking I want to go with a more aggressive A/T style tread. Some road noise won't bother me. Options that I've seen are the Michelin LTX AT/2's (which come in P series) or BFG A/T KO's... they come in LT255/70/16, not in P series. There's nothing to call between them for price (they're both whacky expensive here..., about $1150 for 4 installed/balanced and with all taxes in). But that price is for P series tires for the michelin, and LT for the BFG's. FWIW, I had the BFG's on a previous 2WD F150 and thought they were a good tire, although they seemed to wear a bit fast.

So, what say you? Should I stay with P series tires, or get LT's? I expect the sidewalls of LT's to be stiffer, and give a rougher ride... it seems since P series is what it came with, that I am not sacrificing any load or towing capacity by staying with them... am I??

What about the michelin A/T 2's versus BFG A/T KO's? Anyone got either on their expedition and have thoughts one way or the other?

thx.
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:48 PM
Omahastro1 Omahastro1 is offline
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As for the LT or P rating, when I got new tires I went with LT. The original tires that came on the truck were P's. The tread looked good but the side wall went and I don't tow. The ride is not as nice a little stiffer but this is a heavy truck. The two brands you picked out are both great tires I think the Mich's are a little bit better. I went cheap and went with General Ameritracks. Not the tires you are looking at but I am happy just the same.
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Old 12-01-2009, 07:53 AM
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alwaysfords41 alwaysfords41 is offline
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Michelin and BFG are both good tires and are actually the same company. BFG is Michelin's low rent brand. I think you need to shop around for better prices. A place like Costco will get you the tires at a really good price, and there is a $70 rebate on Michelins right now (thru 12/20). AT/2's run $166 each, plus $14 for installation. That would be around $650 plus tax. Long Trails are $127 each plus install. Usually the rebate is slightly less on BFGs.
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Old 12-01-2009, 10:01 AM
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The P rating means passanger, the LT means light truck, so the P tires will give you a better ride but then they could be dangerous when towing or hauling heavy load because they are not desgined for heavy loads. I would go with the LT tires just becuase they seem the better choice for your application.
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Old 12-01-2009, 10:38 AM
bf204 bf204 is offline
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thanks for the replies so far... FYI, that is Costco's price up here. Pretty much the same (within $50) at tire shops. I could go with an "off brand" for just over $900 for the set (wilderness A/T's)... If I could get a set for the prices you list, it might be worth a road trip south for tires...

Yup, I'm aware of the diff's between P and LT tires... the door sticker on the truck spec's P series, so I take that to mean that they are capable of the loads listed for the truck with respect to load carrying and towing....

FWIW, I think I'm leaning toward's the BFG's A/T KO's (LT)... Might ride a bit more clunky, but I know they are very tough/grippy tires that are capable in winter. In the future I might do some bad things to this truck (hunting seasons) so having thicker sidewalls might not be a bad thing.

They're calling for snow later today and tonight, so I'll get another chance to see how the worn LTX M&S's handle it.

Keep the comments coming... Anyone have BFG A/T KO's on their expedition and regret the choice??
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:41 AM
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alwaysfords41 alwaysfords41 is offline
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How about Tire Rack??
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:51 AM
heterodox1 heterodox1 is offline
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I have the BFG A/T KO tires on my truck (2000 Exp). I went with the 'D' rated version because I know I regularly overload the truck and don't want to worry about the tires. I live in Cleveland, where we get lots of snow and these are the best tires I have owned. I now have 70,000 miles on them and I bet I'll get another 20,000.

I also just bought a set of the Michellin LTX M/S tires for the wife's Edge. Yours was the first bad thing I've heard about these tires - I'm counting on them doing well in the snow... Any idea how many miles you have on your LTX tires?
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Old 12-01-2009, 12:18 PM
bf204 bf204 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heterodox1 View Post
I have the BFG A/T KO tires on my truck (2000 Exp). I went with the 'D' rated version because I know I regularly overload the truck and don't want to worry about the tires. I live in Cleveland, where we get lots of snow and these are the best tires I have owned. I now have 70,000 miles on them and I bet I'll get another 20,000.

I also just bought a set of the Michellin LTX M/S tires for the wife's Edge. Yours was the first bad thing I've heard about these tires - I'm counting on them doing well in the snow... Any idea how many miles you have on your LTX tires?
Glad you're enjoying the BFG's... I liked them when I had them on my F150... but that truck as as truck-like as you could get. With some weight in the bed, it would handle snow well... probably better than AWD SUV's wearing all-seasons.

As for the LTX M/S's... I don't blame the tires at all. I don't know how many miles are on them, but my truck has 115K km on it (~71 K miles). I'm pretty sure they weren't the originals, but I heard there was a recall on the factory tires, so the first set was probably pulled before being worn out. I can tell the tires on my truck were not rotated properly. The ones on the front were more worn and the tread blocks on both inside and outside edges worn down and rounded. The ones on the back had more tread and were worn more evenly. I rotated front to back a couple weeks ago, and thought I'd get through the winter... but now I'm re-thinking that. I haven't measured the remaining tread, but the worst ones (now on the back) are getting reasonably close to the wear bars. I figured I'd get a set next summer anyway, but now think I should have them for this winter instead of waiting. We get cold cold winters here, and tires on the last 25% of their life tend not to work well on ice/snow when it's -20 or even colder... If I lived in a warm place, I'm sure I'd get another year or so out of these tires, no problem.

FWIW, the LTX M/S look like they would be great on-road tires. They're fully siped and I imagine they would do well in snow, particularly when they've got full tread.
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:11 PM
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I know these are not what you are looking at but I have Cooper Discoverer ATRs on my 2000 and am very happy with their performance. I was looking at the same tires as you are but I got these for about $500 LESS
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Old 12-01-2009, 04:09 PM
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I have owned several sets of BFG AT's. They are very good tires and should last you 50k miles. I found they start lacking in winter traction when they are about half worn. I switched to Goodyear wrangler silent armor AT's and found them to be a better tire than the BFG's. Better winter traction that lasted the life of the tire, plenty of off-road durability. I have also owned the Mich LTX AT, Cooper ATR and several more agressive MT tires. The Coopers are a good choice as well, but not a whole lot cheaper than the big brands anymore. The LTX was the previous design, but still a very good tire. Michelins might be more expensive but they wear like iron. Those are very likely the original tires on your truck.

Personally I wouldnt fit a P metric tire to what is ostensibly a truck. You will find that typically P tires have less tread depth than their LT brethren. So cheaper might not last quite as long. They also typically use less inflation pressure which in many cases can cause a squishy squirelly ride.

Look for a tire that carries the "snowflake on the mountain" symbol on the sidewall. These are winter rated tires, they will give you the traction you need. I fitted D rated LT tires in an MT tread that has the snowflake. Sure they hum a little but they look great and snow traction, as well as off road traction has been very impressive so far. The truck still rides very smooth.

Good Luck.
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Old 12-01-2009, 04:09 PM
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