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  #46  
Old 12-09-2009, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Langton View Post
Blackstone's website is showing $22.50.
Either way, you're sending in $7-22 for them to tell you how long you can run your oil.
MC 5w20 or 5w30 is only $2.50/qt here,and an FL-820S is $5.00
So, for approx $20, I can change the oil and have a fresh crankcase fill and KNOW for 100% certain that the oil is good.
Even if I'm able to stretch it out to 10K miles by checking the oil with the analysis,I'm still breaking even (at Blackstone's listed cost) if I were to just change it at 5K miles and not do an analysis.
JL
The way I have used it is to set a baseline. Some might do it regularly but for a car/truck owner I would use them 2-3 times to see how long the oil really lasts, then back off a little and use the longer interval. You might be very surprised how long oil can last. I know Cummins guys going 25,000 miles safely. Investing $60 to save a bunch in the long run is definately a viable strategy in my book. I wouldn't be doing an OA before every change myself.

For my $5000 Expedition? Well, I agree. I go to WalMart every 5,000 miles, pick up a Motorcraft filter and Motorcraft oil and call it good.
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  #47  
Old 12-09-2009, 06:33 PM
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Ever since the lawsuit with Castrol a few years back, M1 has not been the true synthetic it used to be. If you want to spend money on a true synthetic, choose something that is like Amsoil. M1 advertising has duped a lot of people, much like K&N air filters. These are not the best products, but have very good advertising campaigns.

Your engine isn't as old as you think. I would be willing to bet it is only half way through its lifespan. My company truck is an F150 with 255k miles on it. Still runs great.

If you are going to run a high quality full synthetic, take advantage of it and extend your drain intervals. That way you offset the cost. Use oil analysis as mentioned above rather than crusty old notions that 3000 mile change intervals are somehow helping your engine. With a quality full synthetic you should easily be able to go 10k between changes, maybe more. I use the Motorcraft semi syn in my truck as well and currently run 5k mile intervals.

Now get ready for the motor oil battle
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Tim,

You are trying to take the discussion in a direction that was never intended. NOBODY here is trying to compare M1 and Amsoil.

There are tests out there, not Amsoils, that show M1 performs worse than DINO oil. I believe, and will check, Castrol dino based oil outperforms M1.

It isn't that you are getting a full synthetic for a dino price and getting full synthetic performance. You are getting a semi synthetic for a semi synthetic price and getting dino performance that you can get for less.

BTW, you can buy buy Amsoils Ea filters, just a regular spin on filter, and extend your intervals. You are not required to use the full blown filtration systems, but you can because it is offered as a higher yet level of performance.

Do you use oil analysis to check your oils performance or just change based on the advertising?
Actually sir, I think you compared M1 to an Amsoil like product.

I'm simply trying to determine if Amsoil is economically feasible for a person like me who drives 12K-15K per year. I can't seem to get a straight answer on the price per quart for Amsoil.

M1 advertising didn't catch me. Reduced maintenance times and costs hooked me as well as the fact that Coast Guard aircraft use M1.

No, I have never paid for an oil analysis. My vehicles have all performed extremely well throughout the years so I never saw a need to do so.

To be totally honest, I've never had a bad experience with ANY oil or filter.

I do appreciate the discussion but I'm still unconvinced that M1 isn't the right way to go.

Tim
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  #48  
Old 12-09-2009, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Langton View Post
I'm still breaking even (at Blackstone's listed cost) if I were to just change it at 5K miles and not do an analysis.
Yes that is true, but what you're not getting is all of the other information that come with an analysis report. For example, the report can tell you if there is excessive metal fragments suspended in your oil. This could give you a heads up to a pending serious problem and save you hundreds of dollars by making a small repair now instead of a large repair later.
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  #49  
Old 12-09-2009, 06:57 PM
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Actually sir
Psssst, ixnay on the sir-ska, it'll go right to his head-ska.
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  #50  
Old 12-09-2009, 07:29 PM
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Yes that is true, but what you're not getting is all of the other information that come with an analysis report. For example, the report can tell you if there is excessive metal fragments suspended in your oil. This could give you a heads up to a pending serious problem and save you hundreds of dollars by making a small repair now instead of a large repair later.
If I go fishing,eventually I'm gonna catch a fish.
Avoiding the uber-extended oil change intervals will prevent those "fragments" in the first place. I've never had to work on a wear-related failure of an engine that had "normal" oil change intervals.
JL
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  #51  
Old 12-09-2009, 09:03 PM
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To be totally honest, I've never had a bad experience with ANY oil or filter.

Tim
My point exactly. So why do you pay more for M1?

As far as Amsoil prices, it depends on the product as they have several products. You can find an independant dealer, or if you use enough, for about $20/yr you can get preferential pricing.

Again, my opinon would be that it isn't worth it unless you have special needs, and I mean that in a nice way. I don't really buy the "savings" end of it when, as has been pointed out, Motorcraft supplies are only $20 a change.
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  #52  
Old 12-09-2009, 10:09 PM
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My point exactly. So why do you pay more for M1?

As far as Amsoil prices, it depends on the product as they have several products. You can find an independant dealer, or if you use enough, for about $20/yr you can get preferential pricing.

Again, my opinon would be that it isn't worth it unless you have special needs, and I mean that in a nice way. I don't really buy the "savings" end of it when, as has been pointed out, Motorcraft supplies are only $20 a change.
I'm about done with this. You say $20 per change with MC oil. That in my opinion would be 2 changes per year at 6000-7000 miles each change. That's exactly what I spend on M1 for one change per year and I'm under the vehicle half as many times. So, it's a push, a matter of preference.

The great oil debate can go on endlessly. I'm out. Great thread to the OP and I appreciate the discussion. In fairness, I'll rep ya.

Tim
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  #53  
Old 12-10-2009, 12:42 AM
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Yep, great thread! Hope it's not too late to add my .02 worth. For me personally, it's not worth the extra price paid for synthetic oil.

First because I live in a mild climate area. Second, because modern hydrotreated Group II base oil performace is within spitting distance of Group III so called synthetic performance. The same technology that makes Group III hydrotreated base oil also makes Group II hydrotreated base oil. Same plant, same equipment even. Just a small difference in processing temperature. Realisticly, the difference between the two is similar to the difference between premium and mid grade gasoline.

Twenty years ago I could not have said this. But base oil technology has come a long way in a short time. As consumers and automotive enthusiasts, we've never had it so good.

Automotive Mobil 1 is not the same as Mobil avation oil. The automotive synthetic is Group III because it has the same VI and can be labled "synthetic" for a much lower manufacturing price. Mobil avation oil, specifically Mobil Jet Oil II is a group V synthetic ester. Avation gas turbines require synthetic oil because of the higher temperatures they subject the oil to. High temp can cause conventional oil to "coke" or form little carbon particles. Gas turbines have roller bearings. A plain bearing can imbed coke particles in the babit. A ball bearing can roll them off to the side. But when hard coke particles get squeezed in between a roller bearing, somethings going to give and not often enough will it be the coke. A synthetic oil is not immune to coking either, just a lot more resistant.

Amsoil is a kind of a bait and switch. The oil they hype as their synthetic longevity oil is a group IV or V synthetic. It is not API licensed because they do not submit it for testing. Probably because it would not pass. Not because it wouldn't pass the performance tests, but because the additive levels would be too high to meet the maximum requirement. They completely deny this. But it's like claiming you're the father but refuse to take a DNA test if paterity is contested. So no one can prove you're not the father! When pressed for info, they switch and point to their other synthetic HDEO which is API licensed but is a Group III synthetic just like Mobil, Pennzoil and all the rest.

BTW, API licensing is not difficult. If you buy licensed additives from companys like Ornite and document the blending with your purchased base stock... you can bottle your oil and truthfully market it as an API rated oil. It wouldn't be hard to make our own custom FTE oil. Buy bulk base stock, licensed additive, colorful packaging... now we are an oil company. If we sell it over the internet or pressure our friends and family to buy it and sell them preferential buyer status or even enlist them to become dealers, we'll be marketers just like Amsoil!

One other thing. The synthetic purists insist that "true" synthetic isn't a petroleum based lubricant. Then why do they call it oil? Synthetic oil doesn't grow on trees, it is not squeezed from corn or mined from rocks. Where then does it come from? Why it is synthesized from petroleum crude oil natural gas!
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  #54  
Old 12-10-2009, 06:24 AM
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I tried to ya Scott for a fantastic post! But, the rules of repping prohibited me from doing so at this time.

Tim
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  #55  
Old 12-10-2009, 08:59 AM
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All of the debates aside as to which oil will or will not be better than another. There is one issue that has never been mentioned. I have absolutely no statistic on this, so I have no idea of it's overall effect, but I am inclined to think that every time synthetic oil is used, it's that much less foreign oil that gets imported into this country.
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  #56  
Old 12-10-2009, 11:21 AM
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All of the debates aside as to which oil will or will not be better than another. There is one issue that has never been mentioned. I have absolutely no statistic on this, so I have no idea of it's overall effect, but I am inclined to think that every time synthetic oil is used, it's that much less foreign oil that gets imported into this country.
You would think so but it depends on how much natural gas we import. There are eight LNG terminals in the U.S. That means eight places where foreign LNG tankers can land and offload Liquified Natural Gas. Where it is then regasified and compressed it into our sales gas pipeline network. But LNG is only about 1/6 of our natural gas import. The rest of it comes through pipeline from Canada with a little bit from Mexico.

Remember, synthetic oil doesn't grow on trees, it is not squeezed from corn or mined from rocks. It is synthesized from petroleum crude oil natural gas.
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  #57  
Old 12-10-2009, 12:49 PM
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Amsoil is a kind of a bait and switch. The oil they hype as their synthetic longevity oil is a group IV or V synthetic. It is not API licensed because they do not submit it for testing. Probably because it would not pass. Not because it wouldn't pass the performance tests, but because the additive levels would be too high to meet the maximum requirement. They completely deny this. But it's like claiming you're the father but refuse to take a DNA test if paterity is contested. So no one can prove you're not the father! When pressed for info, they switch and point to their other synthetic HDEO which is API licensed but is a Group III synthetic just like Mobil, Pennzoil and all the rest.
You seem to be saying this like it is a bad thing. It seems to me that government imposed emmissions regulations have caused manufacturers to take additive out of the oils. In many cases these are additives that engines like. I know that the new diesel oils are not as good as the pre 2007 versions. They do not hold up as well as the older "designs". Could it be the Amsoil products still offer the better protection because of these additive packages? Test numbers seem to suggest they do.
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  #58  
Old 12-10-2009, 01:21 PM
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You seem to be saying this like it is a bad thing. It seems to me that government imposed emmissions regulations have caused manufacturers to take additive out of the oils. In many cases these are additives that engines like. I know that the new diesel oils are not as good as the pre 2007 versions. They do not hold up as well as the older "designs". Could it be the Amsoil products still offer the better protection because of these additive packages? Test numbers seem to suggest they do.
No the only bad thing is they do not API license their longevity oil and have not done so ever. Even since way before the government mandated the reduction of some additives. Since it is not API licensed they can keep them as high as they like. The danger to the automotive consumer is, if used, it voids their vehicle warranty. Now if you own an older out of warranty vehicle, it's fine. As long as you feel comfortable paying a lot of money for an oil that refuses to submit itself for testing by national standards. Standards that virtually every reputable oil company voluntarily submits to and subscribes to membership in the API, along with the automobile manufacturers. Whom jointly develop the standards.

Amsoil is a package retailer. They have to buy their base stock and additive from a major oil company. I'll bet they don't even own their own blending and bottling facility. It's probably all contract. Amsoil is just an office, not an oil company. My philisophy is why pay more to an oil company's customer when you can buy the same product from a major oil company at a lower price. The oil company's have their own research facilitys and are the one's who develop all the new technology. Why not be the first to have it instead of waiting for them to license their technology and sell it to someone else?
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:02 PM
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The only flaw is that I haven't seen anyone elses products perform as well. You say to get it from the source, who exactly would that be? Mobil 1 certainly isn't up to that level of performance. Regardless of the structure of Amsoil, and your disdain for it, they do appear to offer superior products as an end result.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:20 PM
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just looking for some opinions on oil here. I have a 2002 2wd 5.4 auto xlt. 99k miles. I am a long time castroil user. Always use oem filters. 3-4k between oil chances. use 5w-20 weight oil. live in the Atlanta metro area. found a reasonably priced syn blend put out
with motorcraft name on it. i would appreciate any advice.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:20 PM
 
 
 
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