It happened in a local mud bog race. The Ford 400 based engine was dominating it's class and the chevy boys started crying to the rules makers and got the truck banned from racing, based on that old misconception that 351M/400s are big blocks. I am not sure if the rules makers knew whether or not that it's a big block, but the ruling stuck.
It happened in a local mud bog race. The Ford 400 based engine was dominating it's class and the chevy boys started crying to the rules makers and got the truck banned from racing, based on that old misconception that 351M/400s are big blocks. I am not sure if the rules makers knew whether or not that it's a big block, but the ruling stuck.
The heads from a 400 will bolt to a 302 so I dont know how anyone can say it's a big block. You do have to drill a water port and a few other things to run them but they will still go on. I'm not sure how a 400 could dominate anything either.
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1977 Ford F-150 4X4 460 4-speed (dark jade metallic) Produced June 22, 1977
1966 Ford Fairlane 289 2 door hard top (black)
Fellas,
Sorry to cause such a ruckus; I guess I wasn't very clear in my question.
It sounds like a truck equipped with a 351M or 400 and a manual transmission will accept a 460 without any bellhousing or clutch linkage issues. However, the clutch linkage that came in a truck equipped with a 460 and manual transmission is NOT THE SAME LINKAGE as the linkage that came in a truck equipped with a 351M or 400 engine with a manual transmission. Both points are good bits of information that I needed to know.
-- THANKS GUYS!
Regarding the engine family labels and where should the 351M or 400 reside; I have even seen arguments within our own Blue Oval ranks over if it's a Big-Block, Small-Block or I've even heard the term Mid-Block batted around. Another engine that lacks a definitive home is the hot rod car engine of '70-'74 -- the 351 Cleveland. I've heard the same argument with the 351C - is it a BB or SB?
Fellas,
Sorry to cause such a ruckus; I guess I wasn't very clear in my question.
It sounds like a truck equipped with a 351M or 400 and a manual transmission will accept a 460 without any bellhousing or clutch linkage issues. However, the clutch linkage that came in a truck equipped with a 460 and manual transmission is NOT THE SAME LINKAGE as the linkage that came in a truck equipped with a 351M or 400 engine with a manual transmission. Both points are good bits of information that I needed to know.
-- THANKS GUYS!
Regarding the engine family labels and where should the 351M or 400 reside; I have even seen arguments within our own Blue Oval ranks over if it's a Big-Block, Small-Block or I've even heard the term Mid-Block batted around. Another engine that lacks a definitive home is the hot rod car engine of '70-'74 -- the 351 Cleveland. I've heard the same argument with the 351C - is it a BB or SB?
BarnieTrk
Like I said above, the heads from a 400, 351m or 351c will bolt to a 289, 302, 351w etc. So if someone thinks a 400 is a big block then I guess a 302 is too or actually that engine family goes down to 221 cubes. So the heads from a 400 will go on a 221, that sure sounds like a big block to me. WTF.
If I thought I was going to get disqualifed in local competition because of the argument that a 351m is a big block I'd keep an aticle like this on hand. http://www.themustangshop.com/clevor.cfm
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1977 Ford F-150 4X4 460 4-speed (dark jade metallic) Produced June 22, 1977
1966 Ford Fairlane 289 2 door hard top (black)
The heads from a 400 will bolt to a 302 so I dont know how anyone can say it's a big block. You do have to drill a water port and a few other things to run them but they will still go on. I'm not sure how a 400 could dominate anything either.
you obviously havent read up on the last two years of the jegs engine masters challenge, or checked out tmeyer inc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnieTrk
Regarding the engine family labels and where should the 351M or 400 reside; I have even seen arguments within our own Blue Oval ranks over if it's a Big-Block, Small-Block or I've even heard the term Mid-Block batted around. Another engine that lacks a definitive home is the hot rod car engine of '70-'74 -- the 351 Cleveland. I've heard the same argument with the 351C - is it a BB or SB?
BarnieTrk
ok. the 400 and 351M are "small blocks". they are 335 class engines along with the 351C. the 351M is a 400 with a 3.5 inch stroke. the 400 is a redesign of the 351 cleveland. the cleveland has a 9.2 inch deck, the 400/351M has a 10.3 inch deck. it also has larger, 3" main bearings. the purpose of the 400 was to be a "go between" engine, something that would fit between the small block 351s and the much heavier FE and 385 series motors, WHILE utilizing the heaver transmissions that went with the 385 series. the "go between" mentality that accompanied the motor is how it got dubbed a "mid block". the 351 windsor is considered a small block, and the cleveland is no bigger than its windsor cousin. however the confusion comes because it is a 335 series, with the 400/351M, and not grouped with the windsor. but because the 400/351M design is based on the 351C, only real differences being deck height, main size and bell housing bolt patterns, they are "small blocks."
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Trey "My lugnuts require more torque than your Honda makes."
'91 F250 red super cab long bed w/ 460, 5 speed, 4x4. (For Sale)
'76 F100 tan single cab short bed w/ 360, 4 speed, NP205 4x4.
'78 F150 white single cab long bed w/ 400, C6, NP205 4x4. Slackmaster #18 Nebraska Chapter Member
They're most closely related to the fairlane engine, with a LARGE number of parts interchangable.
They're point is like saying that an sbc is a big block because it uses the same motor mounts. It's a dumb point if you don't know the rest of the differences.
And are the bell housings for the sbc and the bbc the same?
I've never heard of the Cleveland refered to as anything but a small block. It's a small block!
you obviously havent read up on the last two years of the jegs engine masters challenge, or checked out tmeyer inc.
No I haven't but I just did, and here is a quote from the competition. I bet it still didn't have any oil pressure. haha. Anything can make power with money, I'm not denying that. And this is very impressive but still not my cup of tea, personal opinion only.
Of all the final competitors, you could feel that Jon Kaase could taste victory, and wasn't about to let it get away. In qualifying, this 400M was convincingly ahead of the pack, with incredible power across the board. We saw this Ford deliver an insane 515 lb-ft of torque right at the bottom of the power pull at only 2,500 rpm. That is torque you'd expect from a diesel tractor, not a pump-gas performance engine. Low-end power is important for making the big averages in the Engine Masters Challenge, but what it does from there is every bit as important. What Kaase's Ford did as the rpm piled on was swing the torque needle on the dyno readout like it came unhinged. The engine peaked at 618 lb-ft. Consider that at 401 cubic inches, that's a specific torque of 1.54 lb-ft per cube. Frankly, you just don't see that kind of output from 400 inches of single four-barrel, 10.5:1 compression, flat-tappet street engine, but there it was, making 654 horsepower at only 6,200 rpm.
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1977 Ford F-150 4X4 460 4-speed (dark jade metallic) Produced June 22, 1977
1966 Ford Fairlane 289 2 door hard top (black)
No I haven't but I just did, and here is a quote from the competition. I bet it still didn't have any oil pressure. haha. Anything can make power with money, I'm not denying that. And this is very impressive but still not my cup of tea, personal opinion only.
Of all the final competitors, you could feel that Jon Kaase could taste victory, and wasn't about to let it get away. In qualifying, this 400M was convincingly ahead of the pack, with incredible power across the board. We saw this Ford deliver an insane 515 lb-ft of torque right at the bottom of the power pull at only 2,500 rpm. That is torque you'd expect from a diesel tractor, not a pump-gas performance engine. Low-end power is important for making the big averages in the Engine Masters Challenge, but what it does from there is every bit as important. What Kaase's Ford did as the rpm piled on was swing the torque needle on the dyno readout like it came unhinged. The engine peaked at 618 lb-ft. Consider that at 401 cubic inches, that's a specific torque of 1.54 lb-ft per cube. Frankly, you just don't see that kind of output from 400 inches of single four-barrel, 10.5:1 compression, flat-tappet street engine, but there it was, making 654 horsepower at only 6,200 rpm.
there it is!! and the oiling issue can be solved with a drill and an oil line to the back of the motor. also, im looking at building my 400 and spending in the neighborhood of only 8 to 10k for only using the original block. i might also add that simply correcting the 6 degrees of factory cam retard can put a stock 400 making better numbers than my 91 460.
__________________
Trey "My lugnuts require more torque than your Honda makes."
'91 F250 red super cab long bed w/ 460, 5 speed, 4x4. (For Sale)
'76 F100 tan single cab short bed w/ 360, 4 speed, NP205 4x4.
'78 F150 white single cab long bed w/ 400, C6, NP205 4x4. Slackmaster #18 Nebraska Chapter Member
__________________
Trey "My lugnuts require more torque than your Honda makes."
'91 F250 red super cab long bed w/ 460, 5 speed, 4x4. (For Sale)
'76 F100 tan single cab short bed w/ 360, 4 speed, NP205 4x4.
'78 F150 white single cab long bed w/ 400, C6, NP205 4x4. Slackmaster #18 Nebraska Chapter Member
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and the oiling issue can be solved with a drill and an oil line to the back of the motor. also, im looking at building my 400 and spending in the neighborhood of only 8 to 10k for only using the original block. i might also add that simply correcting the 6 degrees of factory cam retard can put a stock 400 making better numbers than my 91 460. 
