ELECTRIC FANS

[RUBICON]

DOES THE 2010 F150 COME WITH ELECTRIC FANS NOW

[murph1]

yes they do,in the 4.6 anyways...there are 2 electric fans....I was kind of suprised when I looked in the engine compartment ....have yet to hear them come on,even here in michigan on the cold mornings,after letting the truck warm up for ten or so minutes..

must have eliminated the fan on the motor to get a little more power..

[tseekins]

Originally Posted by murph1

yes they do,in the 4.6 anyways...there are 2 electric fans....I was kind of suprised when I looked in the engine compartment ....have yet to hear them come on,even here in michigan on the cold mornings,after letting the truck warm up for ten or so minutes..

must have eliminated the fan on the motor to get a little more power..

One of the fans should cycle when you run your defrost cycle as this also cycles the a/c compressor.

Tim

[RUBICON]

DO THE ELECTRIC FANS COME ON THE 5.4 MOTOR FOR 2010

[montecarlo31]

Originally Posted by RUBICON

DO THE ELECTRIC FANS COME ON THE 5.4 MOTOR FOR 2010

unfortunately yes.

[RUBICON]

I am glad they do have electric fans= better a/c performance,better gas mpg less parasitic loss on motor is this wher the 10 hp increase came from and why do u say unfortunately they do u not like the benefits of the fans

[tvsjr]

He's knocked the e-fans now twice but hasn't ever said why he dislikes them.

In short: Put up or shut up.

[heymrdj]

Bout time, this is a mod I'm still getting the $$$ to do to my Expedition. Hate those parasitic electric fans, especially on a cold morning like this morning, trying to get enough heat to warm the cabin and almost being to work by the time the motor gets hot enough. It doesn't need to cool itself from start when it's 30 degrees. =_=

[Lead Head]

Except that modern electronically controlled clutch fans suck almost zero power when the clutch is disengaged. A mechanical clutch fan screaming at full stuff will flow almost twice as much air THROUGH the radiator as an electric fan that is sitting in open air.

Many vehicles even program the computer to lockup/activate mechanical clutch fans on cold startups to put a load on the engine to DECREASE warm up times. Sounds like it would actually cool the engine down at first right? That is until you realize the thermostat on these engines will not even allow any coolant at all to flow to the radiator until the engine is around 190-200*F, and any air blowing over the engine is negligible at best.

[heymrdj]

Originally Posted by Lead Head

Except that modern electronically controlled clutch fans suck almost zero power when the clutch is disengaged. A mechanical clutch fan screaming at full stuff will flow almost twice as much air THROUGH the radiator as an electric fan that is sitting in open air.

Many vehicles even program the computer to lockup/activate mechanical clutch fans on cold startups to put a load on the engine to DECREASE warm up times. Sounds like it would actually cool the engine down at first right? That is until you realize the thermostat on these engines will not even allow any coolant at all to flow to the radiator until the engine is around 190-200*F, and any air blowing over the engine is negligible at best.

WRONG. The airflow of an "idle" mechanical fan equates to many hundred CFM. Even without coolant flow the airflow in the engine bay on a sub zero day is more than enough to keep the most important part cold, the heater core. The fan locking up hardly puts any load at all on a modern V8 engine at full lockup, less that 15hp at most, hardly considerable as load.

While a mechanical fan may pull more air through, it is hardly a requirement for most of the V8's. A V10 or diesel...maybe. But my buddy's F-150 5.4 with 2 16" fans can sit and idle for 45 minutes with the A/C and inverter running on a hot Georgia summer day and it never breaks mid.

[Lead Head]

Originally Posted by heymrdj

WRONG. The airflow of an "idle" mechanical fan equates to many hundred CFM. Even without coolant flow the airflow in the engine bay on a sub zero day is more than enough to keep the most important part cold, the heater core. The fan locking up hardly puts any load at all on a modern V8 engine at full lockup, less that 15hp at most, hardly considerable as load.

While a mechanical fan may pull more air through, it is hardly a requirement for most of the V8's. A V10 or diesel...maybe. But my buddy's F-150 5.4 with 2 16" fans can sit and idle for 45 minutes with the A/C and inverter running on a hot Georgia summer day and it never breaks mid.

Oh, you mean the heater core that is often located INSIDE the cab, or INSIDE an INSULATED box at the REAR of the engine bay? Let me know how the cooling fan at the front of the engine bay is going to somehow magically cool down the heater core.

Also, you seem to lack an understanding of just how much power an engine puts out at idle. Your average V8 at idle RPM with no throttle is probably outputting only in the area of 5-10 HP. So if you can put even a 2-4 HP load (clutch fan is not going to use 15HP at a low RPM) you can significantly reduce heating up times. You can actually see just how little HP an engine put out at idle by turning on the high beams, or briefly pressing "UP" on power windows that are already rolled up, you'll notice a dip in engine RPM until the computer compensates by opening the idle valve up more.

Assuming you have a 100 amp alternator, 100 amps at 12 volts is 1200 watts, 746 watts in 1HP, assuming a 50% efficiency of your average alternator, that means at most you could draw is about 3.5HP through the alternator, About another 3-7HP for the AC compressor based on BTU ratings I've found.

- and to prove e-fan capability you bring up an engine that is putting out less then 30HP on a hot day?

Try hooking up a 9,000 lb trailer, find a steep grade, steep enough to limit your top speed to about 30-35 MPH with the pedal to the floor - and then let me know how long it takes before that 5.4 pegs the temperature gauge all the way to the right.

[tseekins]

Does anyone think that Ford simply pulled a rabbit out of thier hat one day and said we're using E-fans on the light duty trucks?

I haven't read of a single overheating issue on a GM 1/2 ton truck / SUV.

C'mon, there are plenty of stupid ways to ruin an engine. I highly doubt that Ford is going to make overheating due to poor design one of them. Has Ford modified it's tow / haul ratings for the 2010 F-150?

Tim

[Crazy001]

Originally Posted by Lead Head

Try hooking up a 9,000 lb trailer, find a steep grade, steep enough to limit your top speed to about 30-35 MPH with the pedal to the floor - and then let me know how long it takes before that 5.4 pegs the temperature gauge all the way to the right.

You mean like this?

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/89...omparison.html

Did that, with a 10,000 lb trailer. The hill was 15% and max speed was about 25 MPH. Did this three times with this truck, one after another and the gauge never moved.

[heymrdj]

Originally Posted by Lead Head

Oh, you mean the heater core that is often located INSIDE the cab, or INSIDE an INSULATED box at the REAR of the engine bay? Let me know how the cooling fan at the front of the engine bay is going to somehow magically cool down the heater core.

Also, you seem to lack an understanding of just how much power an engine puts out at idle. Your average V8 at idle RPM with no throttle is probably outputting only in the area of 5-10 HP. So if you can put even a 2-4 HP load (clutch fan is not going to use 15HP at a low RPM) you can significantly reduce heating up times. You can actually see just how little HP an engine put out at idle by turning on the high beams, or briefly pressing "UP" on power windows that are already rolled up, you'll notice a dip in engine RPM until the computer compensates by opening the idle valve up more.

Assuming you have a 100 amp alternator, 100 amps at 12 volts is 1200 watts, 746 watts in 1HP, assuming a 50% efficiency of your average alternator, that means at most you could draw is about 3.5HP through the alternator, About another 3-7HP for the AC compressor based on BTU ratings I've found.

- and to prove e-fan capability you bring up an engine that is putting out less then 30HP on a hot day?

Try hooking up a 9,000 lb trailer, find a steep grade, steep enough to limit your top speed to about 30-35 MPH with the pedal to the floor - and then let me know how long it takes before that 5.4 pegs the temperature gauge all the way to the right.

The heater core is attached to the radiator loop and thus if the fluid in the radiator gets cooled the fluid that reaches the heater core is cooled. Fluid has to flow to reach the heater core. The water pump that pushes coolant though your engine is the same pump that pushes that same coolant into your heater core. In this setup you have to expose your luke warm coolant to the massive radiator on these trucks to get them to the heater core.

Your full lock fan is debunked on the basis that it's only during idle. It's a waste of gas to let a vehicle idle for 10 minutes to try to get warm. I typically idle 30 seconds and drive. At this point it has to unlock the fan as you can tell by the noise it makes, but yet of course the fan is *still* drawing air over the motor as the RPMs go up, when it shouldn't be moving at all until the motor is at mid.

As for his alternators, how about dual 350AMP alts custom mounted by these guys: Excessive Amperage - High output alternators by C.S.A..

The truck is idled at 1200RPM via computer to account for the load. When A/C draw through the inverters reaches a peak, it's ran at 2000RPM. The alts keep a bank of 4 deep cycles happy for running 2 of these: AIMS 8000 Watt Power Inverter 12Vdc. 66 AC amps!

These run the mobile power station.

2005 F-150 4x4 5.4V8

As for a trailer, most i've seen him pull is 6500lbs through mud..so I can't say.

[Lead Head]

Originally Posted by heymrdj

The heater core is attached to the radiator loop and thus if the fluid in the radiator gets cooled the fluid that reaches the heater core is cooled. Fluid has to flow to reach the heater core. The water pump that pushes coolant though your engine is the same pump that pushes that same coolant into your heater core. In this setup you have to expose your luke warm coolant to the massive radiator on these trucks to get them to the heater core.

No, you're wrong again. The heater core is on a separate loop then the radiator. The heater core sources its hot water directly from the pump - BEFORE the radiators thermostat. You're radiator can be stone cold, but you can still have plenty of heat.

Your full lock fan is debunked on the basis that it's only during idle. It's a waste of gas to let a vehicle idle for 10 minutes to try to get warm. I typically idle 30 seconds and drive. At this point it has to unlock the fan as you can tell by the noise it makes, but yet of course the fan is *still* drawing air over the motor as the RPMs go up, when it shouldn't be moving at all until the motor is at mid.

And what if you have to idle? Every little bit helps to warm the engine up, especially diesels. Like I said earlier, air blowing over the engine equates to squat in terms of cooling it down, the engine has very little surface area in comparison to the radiator, and air being forced through the radiator from driving at speed, and turbulence kicking up air under the engine bay is more air then an unlocked mechanical air would flow.

As for his alternators, how about dual 350AMP alts custom mounted by these guys: Excessive Amperage - High output alternators by C.S.A..

The truck is idled at 1200RPM via computer to account for the load. When A/C draw through the inverters reaches a peak, it's ran at 2000RPM. The alts keep a bank of 4 deep cycles happy for running 2 of these: AIMS 8000 Watt Power Inverter 12Vdc. 66 AC amps!

These run the mobile power station.

2005 F-150 4x4 5.4V8

As for a trailer, most i've seen him pull is 6500lbs through mud..so I can't say.

700 amps total power, 14 volts, 9800 watts total alternator power. By current alternator/generator efficiency standards that is about 20HP worth of engine draw - still nothing at all. To put any kind of meaningful electrical load on a V8 in these trucks, you'd need a 140,000 watt generator/alternator, that is enough power to power over 20 average homes.